Posted on 05/16/2004 12:59:53 PM PDT by jmstein7
There is now a debate raging on FR about trolls, honest dissent, and the value of free speech. I would like to weigh in on this and then solicit opinions from all of you on the subject.
The First Amendment was a response to the English experience of viewpoint suppression by requiring licensing of the press – i.e. requiring pre-approval of books – the doctrine of construction treason, which held that writing can constitute treason, a capital offense, and the law of seditious libel, criminalizing unfavorable reporting of the government. However, the debate in the United States did not truly reach maturity until the early half of the 20th Century.
Justice Holmes (in, I believe, Abrams v. United States) famously averred that “[t]he best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market.” Even opinions which we “loathe and believe to be fraught with death” should not be suppressed, “unless they so imminently threaten immediate interference with the lawful and pressing purposes of the law that an immediate check is required to save the country.”
Alternatively, the self governance rationale posits that, because the general welfare depends on the citizens making enlightened decisions, in a democratic society, free expression and discussion are essential to deciding matters of public policy. The autonomy rationale holds that for an individual to regard himself as autonomous, he must see himself as free to decide which beliefs to hold. The First Amendment is also justified on the basis that it checks the abuse of power by public officials, it diffuses dissent by creating an atmosphere of open discussion, and it fosters a tolerant society.
I am inclined to agree with Justice Holmes – and that is why I support, as I think most FReepers do – honest dissent. Although such expression of opinion may make us angry, as the Court insinuated in Terminiello v. Chicago, the most valuable expression may well be that which because it is provocative and challenging, produces these emotions. This type of debate aids us in our perpetual search for the truth.
There is no such thing as a false idea. However pernicious an opinion may seem, we depend for its correction not on the conscience of judges and juries, but on the competition of other ideas. However, what we are concerned with is false statement of fact – this type of speech, particularly speech that is intended to be deceptive, adds nothing to public debate. False statements of fact, e.g. intentionally deceptive or libelous utterances, are not within the area of constitutionally protected speech. Deceptive or defamatory speech is “low value speech,” and it adds nothing constructive to the marketplace of ideas. This is why trolls are prohibited – because they add nothing to the debate and exist only to deceive and distort the truth we are seeking.
In a nutshell, we at FR do not support viewpoint discrimination. However, what we do ask for, at a minimum, is open and honest debate as we, together search for the truth. That is, per se, the value of free speech in a Free Republic.
Well, duh!
Look, I'm gonna vote for the guy, but I still have disagreements when he's too far to the left. And if there's a relevant thread, I plan to post my viewpoint. So that makes me a troll?
You should be thankful for voices like mine, we are the ones keeping the GOP as conservative as it is. You don't actually think they wouldn't fly to the center instantly if they thought we didn't care?
I did twice.
(I lost both times.)
That woman was found to be a true troll. After some simple investigation I determined her reason for posting the crap she posted was to irritate, divide and conquer the members of this forum!
This was a correct decision and a startling example of the ignorance of some FReepers who would defend this woman rights to do this under the guise of "free speech".
This is exactly what "air America" and other liberal activists do to create "havoc" in the conservative ranks.
I now wonder about you??????????????????????????
Great job Mods!
Very effectively too.
There are no posters "Riff" or "Raff"
She was a troll. I suspect she's the same troll who posted the same yarn under a different name a while back.
..Did I not say I was against banning people who had disagreements with some of the policies? I certainly never meant to imply you are a troll.
I am passionate in my defense because I feel the need for a coming together to fight the threat of terrorism and support our armed forces. Sometimes all criticism and no support are tough for me to handle with this election looming...Sorry if I offended.
Your FRiend,MEG...;)
That's pretty much our thinking too. We have a lot of established posters who bash Bush but when a newbie immediately posts DU talking point we usually ban him.
I love your screen name.
Yeah, I'm a jerk, but he thows around the word traitor a little too freely.
Your whining to the admin mods did no good. Still fishing?
I don't fish in manure ponds.
LOL!..I lost once that way...and even he turned out less perfect by far than I thought!
Cause and effect can be as warped as the writer's thought process. I would not infer that banning is intended to assert righteousness, although that is the usual liberal "progressive" thought process, to wear the blanket of victimhood.
If you are a guest in my house I may ban you just because you piss me off. End of story. As to the abuse of power, that is a liberal story without end...
"I support viewpoint discrimination, but try to maintain a civil level of discourse."
I guess viewpoint discrimination is easier and less mentally taxing than actual debate and trying to see the other person's point of view.
DonaldDuke, Dane, Cyborg and other nasties have brought down the level of discourse on this site, and it's a shame, really, because it just doesn't have to be that way...
BTW, I didn't seek to get you banned just for you to leave me alone like allthe other freepers who were calling me racist with no unfounded reason. Want me to post all your freepmails? I don't think so.
LOL! Is your brain on overload ..??
Cute.
"Very good first time posts" = "right up my socialist 'progressive' agenda alley"
knock it off
okay
Yeah... I've seen the DUers come and go--quickly. I know you guys have lots to do.
I've been critical of Bush sometimes myself, and have seen others do it. We have a lot of passionate people here. Sometimes the, er, um... more "passionate" amongst us will pull out the words "troll" and "DUer" a bit too quickly for civilized debate, though.
I think you guys keep a pretty good handle on things. Thanks. Oh!... and thanks for letting me have my live thread on the Preakness yesterday. Great race!
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