Columbine: Parents of a Killer

NY Times ^ | May 15, 2004 | DAVID BROOKS

[Snerfling]

Kids who don't give warning ...

Reminds me of my own personal favorite: "only strangers talk to strangers".

[mtbopfuyn]

Adolescence is hard enough, but to be terrified to go to school because you know you'll be the butt of endless jokes and physical abuse is a living nightmare. If you're different, don't fit in, you get picked on, and it starts way back in kindergarten. The parents failed to deal with their son's predicament, but they had to know he wasn't happy.

Are you forgetting the police had already gone out to talk to the parents because their little angels were bullying other kids?

[rabidralph]

They are a well-educated, reflective, highly intelligent couple.... "We're not qualified to sort this out."

Kind of odd for the reporter to call them intelligent and reflective.

[sweetliberty]

"Shows extreme lack of judgment."

I knew someone would say it; that's why I didn't. That is what jumped right out of the article....that, and naming their son after Dylan Thomas. Classic behavior of leftists. So, I will buy that they were cluless.

Still, it's very sad. I still lived in Colorado at the time and watched the whole thing unfold live on TV. We went to the Memorial at Columbine. There was such love and such grief, but in spite of everything, some of the students would not allow Eric and Dylan to be completely left out of the equation. Many recognized that their parents suffered too, and had compassion on them. Some openly forgave the boys for what they did.

.

[Quix]

Now you have 2 very challenging questions!

1)No. I almost all my life felt Chinese had enough children, I didn't need to help them. Besides that, I chose to help those already brought into the world have a better life rather than have my own. PART of the reason was my own crazy childhood. There was enough pain and craziness in my own extended family and nuclear family, I was NOT ABOUT TO visit that sort of stuff on a child. And, I was a bit reasonably concerned that IF I had children, I'd want to spend all my time with them and wouldn't make enough $$$ to feed them.

Now--considering the usual criticisms about that, I can only offer this:

1) My parents adopted a baby girl when I was 10. Mother was determined that no son of hers was going to dump all the child care on the wife. She insisted that I do the 02:30 in the morning feedings for a while in addition to changing and washing diapers.

2) I've lived with other families and shared child care duties and loving for up to 18 months at a time with various aged children.

3) I knew a 50 year missionary lady in Taiwan who had had 12 kids. She said she always cherished the input from the childless. That they often had the best advice that was practical and effective. She had a rare attitude about that.

4) I HAVE MOST DEFINITELY by God's Grace made much better or mostly solved the messes those with children have made of their children's lives in the lives of between 1,000 and 3,000 children--depending on the seriousness of the criteria one uses. CERTAINLY, IF IT DOESN'T WORK, TOSS IT--TRY SOMETHING ELSE--ALMOST ANYTHING ELSE REMOTELY HEALTHY AND LOVING!

---

THE LOOK IN THE EYE--DESCRIBE IT IN WORDS. That's a virtually impossible task.

I think meanness, rebellion and defiance--if one sees such things in the eyes of a child--it's very serious--especially if it's more than a rare occasion. If you watch children's eyes every where you go--or even just your own children's eyes--keeping in mind those issues--you'll learn the differences.

A more difficult look in the eye to catch is the chronic people pleaser and the super manipulator--which are often one and the same. They can be very gifted at looking sweet, helpless, even waif-like garnering all the sympathy and compliance to their wishes from the parents and siblings. When underneath, there's great contempt for everyone else. Typically, they've been hyper sensitive at an early age--and felt trashed, uncared for, unloved--perhaps even hated--rightly or wrongly on the part of their perceptions. And at some point early on decided [not necessarily conscioiusly decided] to blazes with it all, they'll just manipulate out of everyone in a very cynical way--whatever they can get.

Life becomes a strictly economic exchange and instead of love--they covet and go to great lengths to get things and other people's compliance as proof that they are worth breathing air and taking up space. Usually, they have internalized some very early parental message that they aren't worth bothering with genuinely. Sometimes the message wasn't THAT greatly there but given their hypersensitivity--they construed it that way and the parents didn't catch it or didn't know how [and weren't willing to search long enough to find someone who did] or decided they couldn't pay the price to overcome it.

One way you can get some clue about the look in the eye thing is to stand in front of a mirror. Consider the constructs, attitudes etc. I've mentioned above--such as defiance. Close your eyes--think of something you used to feel real defiant about. Start to feel it. Then imagine the person you most felt it toward--imagine that they are in front of you. Open your eyes and look in the mirror. You can do the same thing with each of those constructs, attitudes, feelings.

You can also ask God [as I did at a young age] to help you know what it's like to feel inside the other person's skin. If you are serious and faithful to ask, as well as to obey Him in what He tells you to do to grow in that way, He will answer that prayer.

And, when you see your child [or anyone else, for that matter] with a certain look that puzzles you--focus on the look enough that you can match it--mimic it as authentically as you can. You could do it then and there or privately in front of your mirror. When you feel you have the look down well, focus on how you feel holding that look. That can give you a good clue about what's going on in your child.

And, you can simply ask God--what's my child/that person feeling, thinking right now? Why?

And, with most people, asking WHY is counter productive because it feels like an accusation. USUALLY, IN MARRIAGES AND WITH TEENS, IT'S BETTER TO AVOID ASKING QUESTIONS AT ALL. a good exercise toward that is to commit to one's spouse to go a whole month without asking a single question. You learn to make statements.

--I'm unaware of your plans about the evening.
--I'm unaware of the best time for dinner.
--I'm pondering about the wisest time for dinner.
--I don't know the best way to be thoughtful toward you, today.
--I'm puzzled about the origin of your statement.
--I'm curious about the source of that look on your face.
--I'm interested in the thoughts that preceded that tone of voice.
--I don't know if you thought of any possible alternatives to that action or not. I don't know if you considered the different results the different alternative actions might have produced, or not.
--I'm puzzled about your expectations of me at the moment.
--I'm interested in knowing your hopes about our time together the next 4 hours.
--I'm interested in planning my day/week. But I want to maximize my matching and helpfulness to your plans. It would help if I knew them.

etc.

Mileage may vary.

Blessings,

[VOA]

bump

[atomicpossum]

they trust The New York Times

So they can multitask their state of denial, apparently.

[Proud 2BeTexan]

I have 5 children, and I think Quix has pretty well hit the nail on the head. There's no guarantee against a child 'going wrong', but you sure do lower the chances if a child KNOWS and FEELS that you love them.

As for me - that's the main reason why I have always stayed at home with my children, even through some very difficult financial times. We also homeschool. I want my children to know that I value them enough to sacrifice my own time for them. I'm intelligent enough to have a very highly paid career... but my children are more important. Period.

I don't think Klebold's parents taught him to hate, or to blow people up. But for some reason, he apparently didn't feel important to them. One thing that kept me on the straight and narrow as a child, teen and young adult, was knowing how badly it would hurt my parents if I screwed up.

Again, there are NO guarantees. But having a one-on-one relationship with your children really does lower the odds!

I've made some mistakes with my kids, and it's usually been because of my own selfishness, or laziness. Not wanting to bother to find out what was really making them tick. I regret every time I've done that!

They are still ultimately responsible for their own actions, but they were given parents for a reason. "Train up a child in the way he SHOULD go..."

Thanks, Quix, for your posts. It's made me renew my own commitment.

[dagoofyfoot]

They obviously failed on some level.


I disagree...


In the generation I was born, couples usually had large families, say like 5 to 7 children.
The parents were usually religeous and worked hard to provide.


However is seemed that in almost every large family, one kid would go south on them. The majority of the kids would become productive members of society, but there would be that one...the rebel.


How do you explain that? Same parents...and one bad apple...

[Judith Anne]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. We've been blessed with great kids, kids-in-law, and grandkids, all of them have filled our hearts with love, honor and pride...

But I have seen really great kids come from really stinking parents, and vice versa...

[Euro-American Scum]

Their son, (Klebold) by the way, is widely seen as the follower, who was led by Eric Harris into this nightmare.

So. . . What? This means he's not responsible, according to the NY Times?

[Judith Anne]

I agree. One of my sibs has "gone south" but so far hasn't murdered anyone, just ruined her own kids.

[irishlass]

Certainly children are still responsible for their behavior. But there is a reason that 75%+ of prison populations come from horrid parenting

I would have agreed with this statement before I had kids, but now I'm not so sure. I am on the tail end of parenting a very difficult young man, and I was a great parent. I supported him in everything, sent him to a wonderful private Christian school, attend every game and practice, and most importantly, held him accountable for his actions. Yet,he still ended up a mess as a teenager. Looking back, I realize he was a difficult child all along. From birth through today, if I say black, he says white. Thankfully, I am beginning to see a change, and Lord willing he is signing up for the Coast Guard on Thursday. What explains his defiance? My Biblical World View teaches me that "The heart is desperately wicked as the sparks fly upward," and he chose to yield to it's calling. Thank God things are beginning to change.

[BraveMan]

Apparently the NYT could not get an interview with the parents of Eric Harris .

[brushcop]

Extreme liberals are ALWAYS labeled as "intelligent, reflective, PROGRESSIVE", yeah, gimme a break. That's okay, at 61 and staunchly aligned with the great unwashed of this land, my life has been blessed with friends who think logically, believe in something (someONE) besides their Beamers (some own high-end vehicles because they are plumbers, carpenters and mechanics you see) and love this country.

[Zevonismymuse]

How do you explain that? Same parents...and one bad apple...

I doubt the "bad apple" committed mass murder. This "bad apple" you refer to probably engaged in petty crime and/or quit school.

I see going on a killing spree as a much different behavior than that of the family screw-up.

[dagoofyfoot]

I see going on a killing spree as much different behavior that that of the family screw-up.


Check out the family history of Charles "Tex" Watson...


This was a guy from a good family, college basket ball player that went on to "slaughter" Sharon Tate and company in one of the gruesome mass murders in history.

[Zevonismymuse]

Check out the family history of Charles "Tex" Watson...

I worked at Atascadero State Hospital during the time Tex Watson was incarcerated there. I know more about his family history than most people who have made it a point to discover.

Watson's family was extremely enabling. They attempted to block the extradition to prevent him from standing trial.

[NYCVirago]

I think these folks have some serious denial. It may not have been their fault, but their son was their responsibility. They obviously failed on some level. And I resent the way they attempt to blame jocks and bullying.

Yep, especially when their son was bullying at least one kid himself, and got in trouble with the law for it, way before the murders. That kid (and his father) knew that Klebold and Harris were bad news; why didn't their parents notice, especially after the police got involved?