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Broadcasts of Muslim call to prayer anger many residents
IHT ^ | 05/05/04 | John Leland

Posted on 05/05/2004 9:57:17 PM PDT by Pikamax

Tensions rise in a Michigan town John Leland NYT Wednesday, May 05, 2004

Broadcasts of Muslim call to prayer anger many residents

HAMTRAMCK, Michigan To hear people in this blue-collar town tell it, things were fine until the al-Islah Islamic Center petitioned to broadcast its call to prayer, or azan, over an outdoor loudspeaker.

Masud Khan, the mosque's secretary, sat on the carpeted floor one day last week and reflected on what he had learned about some of his neighbors in the last few months. "How much they hate us," he said softly.

Jackie Rutherford, a librarian and youth worker, sat on her front stoop watching three men in Islamic shirt-dresses at the house across the street. "I don't know what's going to happen to our little town," said Rutherford, 39.

"I used to say I wasn't prejudiced against anyone, but then I realized I had a problem with them putting Allah above everyone else," she said, of the plan to amplify the call to prayer, which mosques announce five times a day. "It's throwing salt in a wound. I feel they've come to our country, infiltrated it, and they sit there looking at us, laughing, calling us fools."

For the population of Hamtramck, a city of 23,000 surrounded by Detroit, the battle of the loudspeaker, which the City Council approved on Tuesday, has revealed a crossfire of religious, ethnic and lifestyle grievances, aggravated by the lingering memories of Sept. 11, 2001, which left many Muslims here feeling they were under suspicion.

Once an enclave of Polish immigrants, Hamtramck has since the 1990s become a haven for immigrants from Bangladesh, Yemen, Pakistan, Bosnia and other countries, including a large Muslim population. In the 2000 census, 41 percent of the city's population was born outside the United States.

On spring afternoons, the sidewalks of Joseph Campau Avenue echo snatches of Polish, Bengali, Arabic and hip hop, punctuated by the sound of bells from several Catholic churches. Three mosques have opened in the last few years, increasing in size while the congregations at neighboring Roman Catholic churches dwindle.

Yet for all this churn, the ethnic populations coexisted with little overt friction.

"Even after 9/11, we had no problems," said Abdul Motlib, the president of the al-Islah mosque, which serves a mostly Bangladeshi membership (the other two mosques are primarily Bosnian or Yemeni).

Then last year, Motlib applied for approval to amplify the call to prayer, a sonorous invocation in Arabic that lasts up to two minutes.

For some longtime residents, like Joanne Golen, 68, who described herself as a born-again Christian, the request crossed a line. Golen said she had always gotten along well with the Bangladeshi families in her neighborhood. She noted that at Easter one of her new neighbors brought her a turkey that he had gotten at work. But she said the call to prayer was too much.

"My main objection is simple," she said. "I don't want to be told that Allah is the true and only God five times a day, 365 days a year. It's against my constitutional rights to have to listen to another religion evangelize in my ear."

At City Hall last week, before the final vote on the loudspeaker, a crowd of more than 100 crammed into a room, with dozens more listening or arguing in the hallway outside.

Chuck Schultz, 49, a computer programmer from nearby Grosse Pointe, spoke against the measure.

"Everyone talks about their rights," Schultz said. "The rights of Christians have been stripped from them. Last week, there were Muslims praying downstairs, in a public building. If Christians tried to do that, the ACLU would shut us down."

Some residents complained about the potential noise. Others, like Veronica Wojtowicz, 81, reminded neighbors of a time when life in Hamtramck was simpler.

"My parents came to this country and worked hard," Wojtowicz said. "I think the grace belongs on the other side. The intolerance doesn't come from the people who object; it comes from the other side. We all lived in peace and had no problems. You moved too fast."

In response, Abdul Latef, the imam at Masjid Al-Falah, a mosque in Detroit, asked the community to be patient.

"You can make history," Al-Falah said.

"This is part of our religion. If it is too noisy, then you can complain, and they will stop it forever."

Council members emphasized that there was nothing technically preventing the mosque from amplifying its call to prayer, even without amending the city's noise ordinance, and compared the amplification to the chiming of church bells.

The amendment just gave government officials leverage to limit the volume and hours of the broadcasts, said Councilman Scott Klein.

Motlib said the mosque had applied for approval "because we want to be good neighbors."

Paradoxically, the call to prayer is one that even most of the Muslims at al-Islah mosque cannot understand, because they speak Bengali rather than Arabic, said Khan, the mosque secretary.

Yet for many Muslims in town, the dispute seemed less about noise or the content of the azan than about insecurities of an older immigrant population feeling threatened by a newer one.

"They see we are coming more and more, and they think we are taking their city," said Abusayed Mahfuz, 34, the editor of Bangla Amar, a local Bengali magazine and Web site. "It's not really a religious problem. It's about migration, which is a reality."

Musad, who moved to Hamtramck from New York in 1999, said he understood the insecurity.

"It's human nature," he said. "You feel an invasion. It could happen to me also."

Like others in his mosque, Musad said, he was drawn to the Muslim community here not for its engagement with the rest of America, but for its distance.

"What attracted me was seeing school girls with veils and burkas," he said. "It's more authentic here than in New York, more roots. There's village life."

The New York Times


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: internaltakeover; michiganmuslims; religionofpeace
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To: Pikamax
"How much they hate us," he said softly. Oh, cry me a river.
21 posted on 05/05/2004 10:47:04 PM PDT by blandbutmarvellous
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To: Pikamax
"What attracted me was seeing school girls with veils and burkas," he said.

G-- d--- pervert.

-ccm

22 posted on 05/05/2004 10:48:55 PM PDT by ccmay
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To: oyez
I have an idea, how about every church in the town ringing their bells during the calls to prayer, drown them out!
23 posted on 05/05/2004 10:51:12 PM PDT by Citizen Soldier
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To: oolatec
Time for a repeal of our loose immigration laws and policies.

Hoppy
24 posted on 05/05/2004 10:52:11 PM PDT by Hop A Long Cassidy
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To: Pikamax
"How much they hate us," he said softly.

Sounds to me like they were getting along fine before they decided to broadcast their yammering to the whole neighborhood.

I'd hate it too if they were going at full blast for minutes at a time, I don't care if they were reading from the dictionary.

This guy needs to realize that it is the American way to bitch about anything in one's neighborhood that upsets the ideal of neat single-family homes, well trimmed lawns and quiet streets. Plenty of Christian churches have run into this kind of NIMBYism.

25 posted on 05/05/2004 10:53:32 PM PDT by ccmay
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To: Rocky; gonzo; wardaddy
The Left wants us to "celebrate diversity". Meaning that they prefer the salad-dish to the melting pot. A unified society can take a stand against outside forces such as Marxism. A house divided cannot stand. The Left hates America and is trying to destroy it from within

The left does not understand the meaning of the term 'diversity.' Diversity essentially means parts of a whole being different from each other, but still part of the same whole. That is what it inherently means.

However the left looks at it from a perspective where diversity means simply being different. That is not diversity, simply because it is not being diverse. It is only being divergent.

African-Americans, Native-Americans, Irish-Americans, Asian-Americans etc etc etc .....that is diversity. They keep their individual identities, but they still know they are Americans and hence strive for the betterment of the land they call home ....America. After 9-11 it was evident how everyone came together, no hyphens or anything .....simply American.

However, if I start saying that I am not a Kenyan-American but Kenyan, and that I despise the US and it is vile and reprehensible, then by my assertions I cannot claim to be adding to any form of diversity. The least I would be is a hypocrite. The worst ......!

Many (not all ....but definitely a huge number) Muslims do not see themselves as Americans but merely people living in America. That is not diversity ....it is being apart.

Take FR for example. There are all sorts of Freepers. Some gentle, others acid-tongued. Some intelligent, others go on purely by the grace of God. Many have established views and beliefs, and some have some rather 'eclectic and eccentric' political and social views. But at the end of the day we are all Freepers. We all contribute at making FR more diverse.

Now, let's say someone from DU comes to FR as a troll. He will not be adding to any diversity. All he will doing is disrupting and creating schisms.

The Left seems to see diversity as letting everything in, yet the core of the word is different parts of a whole ...but still a whole.

26 posted on 05/05/2004 10:53:50 PM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear missiles: The ultimate Phallic symbol.)
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To: Citizen Soldier
Do it.
27 posted on 05/05/2004 10:57:58 PM PDT by oyez (Fortune favors the bold.)
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To: spetznaz
Excellent comments. "Diveristy" is in the eyes of the beholder. Like so many buzz words in the world of PC, the word can be used as a code-word amongst the initiates, while to the rest of the great unwashed (average Americans), the Left can pretend an innocent meaning and intent.
28 posted on 05/05/2004 10:58:26 PM PDT by Rocky (To the 9/11 Commission: It was Al Qaeda, stupid!)
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To: Jaysun
Ditto on that. My first thought was to shoot the loud speaker.
29 posted on 05/05/2004 11:05:31 PM PDT by PattonReincarnated (Rebuild the Temple)
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To: oyez
Not my town, but if the townspeople were smart I can guarantee you that the town council would pass a no noise resolution in a hurry. Next thing you know the women will be getting their driver's license with a picture of them in their burkas.
30 posted on 05/05/2004 11:05:46 PM PDT by Citizen Soldier
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To: oyez
that town IS full of church bells.
31 posted on 05/05/2004 11:15:36 PM PDT by sweneop
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To: oolatec
THE AGENDA OF ISLAM - A WAR BETWEEN CIVILIZATIONS



by Professor Moshe Sharon

There is no Fundamental Islam

"Fundamentalism" is a word that came from the heart of the Christian religion. It means faith that goes by the word of the Bible. Fundamental Christianity, or going with the Bible, does not mean going around and killing people. There is no fundamental Islam. There is only Islam full stop. The question is how the Koran is interpreted.

All of a sudden we see that the greatest interpreters of Islam are politicians in the western world. They know better than all the speakers in the mosques, all those who deliver terrible sermons against anything that is either Christian or Jewish. These western politicians know that there is good Islam and bad Islam. They know even how to differentiate between the two, except that none of them know how to read a word of Arabic.

The Language of Islam

You see, so much is covered by politically correct language that, in fact, the truth has been lost. For example, when we speak about Islam in the west, we try to use our own language and terminology. We speak about Islam in terms of democracy and fundamentalism, in terms of parliamentarism and all kinds of terms, which we take from our own dictionary. One of my professors and one of the greatest orientalists in the world says that doing this is like a cricket reporter describing a cricket game in baseball terms. We cannot use for one culture or civilization the language of another. For Islam, you've got to use the language of Islam.

Driving Principles of Islam

Let me explain the principles that are driving the religion of Islam. Of course, every Moslem has to acknowledge the fact that there is only one God. But it's not enough to say that there is only one God. A Moslem has to acknowledge the fact that there is one God and Mohammed is his prophet. These are the fundamentals of the religion that without them, one cannot be a Moslem. But beyond that, Islam is a civilization. It is a religion that gave first and foremost a wide and unique legal system that engulfs the individual, society and nations with rules of behaviour. If you are Moslem, you have to behave according to the rules of Islam which are set down in the Koran and which are very different than the teachings of the Bible.

The Bible

Let me explain the difference. The Bible is the creation of the spirit of a nation over a very, very long period, if we talk from the point of view of the scholar, and let me remain scholarly. But there is one thing that is important in the Bible. It leads to salvation. It leads to salvation in two ways.

In Judaism, it leads to national salvation - not just a nation that wants to have a state, but a nation that wants to serve God. That's the idea behind the Hebrew text of the Bible.

The New Testament that took the Hebrew Bible moves us toward personal salvation. So we have got these two kinds of salvation, which, from time to time, meet each other.

But the key word is salvation. Personal salvation means that each individual is looked after by God, Himself, who leads a person through His word to salvation. This is the idea in the Bible, whether we are talking about the Old or the New Testament. All of the laws in the Bible, even to the minutest ones, are, in fact directed toward this fact of salvation.

Secondly, there is another point in the Bible, which is highly important. This is the idea that man was created in the image of God. Therefore, you don't just walk around and obliterate the image of God. Many people, of course, used Biblical rules and turned them upside down. History has seen a lot of massacres in the name of God and in the name of Jesus. But as religions, both Judaism and Christianity in their fundamentals speak about honouring the image of God and the hope of salvation. These are the two basic fundamentals.

The Essence of Islam

Now let's move to the essence of Islam. Islam was born with the idea that it should rule the world. Let's look, then, at the difference between these three religions. Judaism speaks about national salvation - namely that at the end of the story, when the world becomes a better place, Israel will be in its own land, ruled by its own king and serving God. Christianity speaks about the idea that every single person in the world can be saved from his sins, while Islam speaks about ruling the world. I can quote here in Arabic, but there is no point in quoting Arabic, so let me quote a verse in English. "Allah sent Mohammed with the true religion so that it should rule over all the religions."

The idea, then, is not that the whole world would become a Moslem world at this time, but that the whole world would be subdued under the rule of Islam.

When the Islamic empire was established in 634 AD, within seven years - 640 - the core of the empire was created. The rules that were taken from the Koran and from the tradition that was ascribed to the prophet Mohammed, were translated into a real legal system. Jews and Christians could live under Islam provided they paid poll tax and accepted Islamic superiority. Of course, they had to be humiliated. And Jews and Christians living under Islam are humiliated to this very day.

Mohammed Held That All the Biblical Prophets Were Moslems

Mohammed did accept the existence of all the Biblical prophets before him. However he also said that all these prophets were Moslems. Abraham was a Moslem. In fact, Adam himself was the first Moslem. Isaac and Jacob and David and Solomon and Moses and Jesus were all Moslems, and all of them had writings similar to the Koran. Therefore, world history is Islamic history because all the heroes of history were Moslems.

Furthermore, Moslems accept the fact that each of these prophets brought with him some kind of a revelation. Moses, brought the Taurat, which is the Torah, and Jesus brought the Ingeel, which is the Evangelion or Gospel - namely the New Testament.

The Bible versus the Koran

Why then is the Bible not similar to the Koran? Mohammed explains that the Jews and Christians forged their books. Had they not been changed and forged, they would have been identical to the Koran. But because Christians and Jews do have some truth, Islam concedes that they cannot be completely destroyed by war [for now]. Nevertheless, the laws are very clear - Jews and Christians have no rights whatsoever to independent existence. They can live under Islamic rule provided they keep to the rules that Islam promulgates for them.

Islamic Rule and Jihad

What happens if Jews and Christians don't want to live under the rules of Islam? Then Islam has to fight them and this fighting is called Jihad. Jihad means war against those people who don't want to accept the Islamic superior rule. That's jihad. They may be Jews; they may be Christians; they may be Polytheists. But since we don't have too many Polytheists left, at least not in the Middle East - their war is against the Jews and Christians.

A few days ago, I received a pamphlet that was distributed in the world by bin Laden. He calls for jihad against America as the leader of the Christian world, not because America is the supporter of Israel, but because Americans are desecrating Arabia with their filthy feet. There are Americans in Arabia where no Christians should be. In this pamphlet there is not a single word about Israel. Only that Americans are desecrating the home of the prophet.

Two Houses

The Koran sees the world as divided into two - one part which has come under Islamic rule and one part which is supposed to come under Islamic rule in the future. There is a division of the world which is very clear. Every single person who starts studying Islam knows it. The world is described as Dar al-Islam (the house of Islam) - that's the place where Islam rules - and the other part which is called Dar al-Harb - the house of war. Not the "house of non-Muslims," but the "house of war." It is this house of war which has to be, at the end of time, conquered. The world will continue to be in the house of war until it comes under Islamic rule. This is the norm. Why? Because Allah says it's so in the Koran. God has sent Mohammed with the true religion in order that the truth will overcome all other religions.

Islamic Law

Within the Islamic vision of this world, there are rules that govern the lives of the Moslems themselves, and these rules are very strict. In fundamentals, there are no differences between schools of law.

However, there are four streams of factions within Islam with differences between them concerning the minutiae of the laws. All over the Islamic world, countries have favored one or another of these schools of laws. The strictest school of law is called Hanbali, mainly coming out of Saudi Arabia. There are no games there, no playing around with the meanings of words. If the Koran speaks about war, then it's war.

There are various perspectives in Islam with different interpretations over the centuries. There were good people that were very enlightened in Islam that tried to understand things differently. They even brought traditions from the mouth of the prophet that women and children should not be killed in war.

These more liberal streams do exist, but there is one thing that is very important for us to remember. The Hanbali school of law is extremely strict, and today this is the school that is behind most of the terrorist powers. Even if we talk about the existence of other schools of Islamic law, when we're talking about fighting against the Jews, or fighting against the Christian world led by America, it is the Hanbali school of law that is being followed.

Islam and Territory

This civilization created one very important, fundamental rule about territory. Any territory that comes under Islamic rule cannot be de-Islamized. Even if at one time or another, the [non-Moslem] enemy takes over the territory that was under Islamic rule, it is considered to be perpetually Islamic.

This is why whenever you hear about the Arab/Israeli conflict, you hear - territory, territory, territory. There are other aspects to the conflict, but territory is highly important.

The Christian civilization has not only been seen as a religious opponent, but as a dam stopping Islam from achieving its final goal for which it was created.

Islam was created to be the army of God, the army of Allah. Every single Moslem is a soldier in this army. Every single Moslem that dies in fighting for the spread of Islam is a shaheed (martyr) no matter how he dies, because - and this is very important - this is an eternal war between the two civilizations. It's not a war that stops. This war is there because it was created by Allah. Islam must be the ruler. This is a war that will not end.

Islam and Peace

Peace in Islam can exist only within the Islamic world; peace can only be between Moslem and Moslem.

With the non-Moslem world or non-Moslem opponents, there can be only one solution - a cease fire until Moslems can gain more power. It is an eternal war until the end of days. Peace can only come if the Islamic side wins. The two civilizations can only have periods of cease-fires. And this idea of cease-fire is based on a very important historical precedent, which, incidentally, Yasser Arafat referred to when he spoke in Johannesburg after he signed the Oslo agreement with Israel.

Let me remind you that the document speaks of peace - you wouldn't believe that you are reading! You would think that you were reading some science fiction piece. I mean when you read it, you can't believe that this was signed by Israelis who are actually acquainted with Islamic policies and civilization.

A few weeks after the Oslo agreement was signed, Arafat went to Johannesburg, and in a mosque there he made a speech in which he apologized, saying, "Do you think I signed something with the Jews which is contrary to the rules of Islam?" (I have obtained a copy of Arafat's recorded speech so I heard it from his own mouth.) Arafat continued, "That's not so. I'm doing exactly what the prophet Mohammed did."

Whatever the prophet is supposed have done becomes a precedent. What Arafat was saying was, "Remember the story of Hodaybiya." The prophet had made an agreement there with the tribe of Kuraish for 10 years. But then he trained 10,000 soldiers and within two years marched on their city of Mecca. He, of course, found some kind of pretext.

Thus, in Islamic jurisdiction, it became a legal precedent which states that you are only allowed to make peace for a maximum of 10 years. Secondly, at the first instance that you are able, you must renew the jihad [thus breaking the "peace" agreement].

In Israel, it has taken over 50 years in this country for our people to understand that they cannot speak about [permanent] peace with Moslems. It will take another 50 years for the western world to understand that they have got a state of war with the Islamic civilization that is virile and strong. This should be understood: When we talk about war and peace, we are not talking in Belgium, French, English, or German terms. We are talking about war and peace in Islamic terms.

Cease-fire as a Tactical Choice

What makes Islam accept cease-fire? Only one thing - when the enemy is too strong. It is a tactical choice.

Sometimes, he may have to agree to a cease-fire in the most humiliating conditions. It's allowed because Mohammed accepted a cease-fire under humiliating conditions. That's what Arafat said to them in Johannesburg. When western policy makers hear these things, they answer, "What are you talking about? You are in the Middle Ages. You don't understand the mechanisms of politics."

Which mechanisms of politics? There are no mechanisms of politics where power is. And I want to tell you one thing - we haven't seen the end of it, because the minute a radical Moslem power has atomic, chemical or biological weapons, they will use it. I have no doubt about that.

Now, since we face war and we know that we cannot get more than an impermanent cease-fire, one has to ask himself what is the major component of an Israeli/Arab cease-fire. It is that the Islamic side is weak and your side is strong. The relations between Israel and the Arab world in the last 50 years since the establishment of our State has been based only on this idea, the deterrent power.

Wherever You Have Islam, You Will Have War

The reason that we have what we have in Yugoslavia and other places is because Islam succeeded into entering these countries. Wherever you have Islam, you will have war. It grows out of the attitude of Islamic civilization.

What are the poor people in the Philippines being killed for? What's happening between Pakistan and India?

Islamic Infiltration

Furthermore, there is another fact that must be remembered. The Islamic world has not only the attitude of open war, but there's also war by infiltration.

One of the things which the western world is not paying enough attention to is the tremendous growth of Islamic power in the western world. What happened in America and the Twin Towers is not something that came from the outside. And if America doesn't wake up, one day the Americans will find themselves in a chemical war and most likely in an atomic war - inside the U.S.

End of Days

It is highly important to understand how a civilization sees the end of days. In Christianity and in Judaism, we know exactly what is the vision of the end of days.

In Judaism, it is going to be as in Isaiah - peace between nations, not just one nation, but between all nations. People will not have any more need for weapons and nature will be changed - a beautiful end of days and the kingdom of God on earth.

Christianity goes as far as Revelation to see a day that Satan himself is obliterated. There are no more powers of evil. That's the vision.

I'm speaking now as a historian. I try to understand how Islam sees the end of days. In the end of days, Islam sees a world that is totally Moslem, completely Moslem under the rule of Islam. Complete and final victory.

Christians will not exist, because according to many Islamic traditions, the Moslems who are in hell will have to be replaced by somebody and they'll be replaced by the Christians.

The Jews will no longer exist, because before the coming of the end of days, there is going to be a war against the Jews where all Jews should be killed. I'm quoting now from the heart of Islamic tradition, from the books that are read by every child in school. The Jews will all be killed. They'll be running away and they'll be hiding behind trees and rocks, and on that day Allah will give mouths to the rocks and trees and they will say, "Oh Moslem come here, there is a Jew behind me, kill him." Without this, the end of days cannot come. This is a fundamental of Islam.

Is There a Possibility to End This Dance of War?

The question which we in Israel are asking ourselves is what will happen to our country? Is there a possibility to end this dance of war?

The answer is, "No. Not in the foreseeable future." What we can do is reach a situation where for a few years we may have relative quiet.

But for Islam, the establishment of the state of Israel was a reverse of Islamic history. First, Islamic territory was taken away from Islam by Jews. You know by now that this can never be accepted, not even one meter. So everyone who thinks Tel Aviv is safe is making a grave mistake. Territory, which at one time was dominated by Islamic rule, now has become non-Moslem. Non-Moslems are independent of Islamic rule; Jews have created their own independent state. It is anathema.

And (this is the worst) Israel, a non-Moslem state, is ruling over Moslems. It is unthinkable that non-Moslems should rule over Moslems.

I believe that Western civilization should hold together and support each other. Whether this will happen or not, I don't know. Israel finds itself on the front lines of this war. It needs the help of its sister civilization. It needs the help of America and Europe. It needs the help of the Christian world. One thing I am sure about, this help can be given by individual Christians who see this as the road to salvation.
32 posted on 05/05/2004 11:16:17 PM PDT by bellas_sister (" Senator, do you know there's a girl found dead in your car?")
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To: Pikamax
"What attracted me was seeing school girls with veils and burkas," he said. "It's more authentic here than in New York, more roots. There's village life."

Why the f*** are you here in the US, Masud? Get out! Assimilate or get out!

33 posted on 05/05/2004 11:17:34 PM PDT by Clock King
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To: Citizen Soldier
if you passed a noise resolution the polish church bells would have to stop too.

theres a lot of religious noise in that town and the main issue seems to be that the new one is going to be arabic. if thats peoples issues, then they should say so. in the articles ive read on this they are all avoiding directly saying that or talking too much about the noise because the whole bell thing make that point a bit hypocritical.

ive heard the call to prayer over loudspeakers before and ill say its probably less intrusive than the bells. what it is, though, is kinda spooky.
34 posted on 05/05/2004 11:19:45 PM PDT by sweneop
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To: Pikamax
he was drawn to the Muslim community here not for its engagement with the rest of America, but for its distance.

"What attracted me was seeing school girls with veils and burkas," he said. "It's more authentic here than in New York, more roots. There's village life."

Aw jeez. Just what we need, non-assimilating muslims. At least the FBI will know where to look first.

It used to be people came here to make a new start. Why do people who want to keep to the old ways come to America?

35 posted on 05/05/2004 11:23:54 PM PDT by radiohead (Over toning the opponent since 2003)
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To: spetznaz
Excellent encapsulation of "diversity". You know something's wrong on the Left (well, moreso than usual) when they elevated the concept to the level of religion. If it weren't for the Frankfurt School and Saul Alinskey stuff I would surely think they do what they do just to be obnoxious.
36 posted on 05/05/2004 11:32:24 PM PDT by NewRomeTacitus
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To: oolatec
You speak the truth.

The question is... Are you prepared to kill them?

37 posted on 05/05/2004 11:37:40 PM PDT by expatguy (Fallujah Delenda Est!!)
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To: bellas_sister
A very good article/post.
38 posted on 05/06/2004 12:02:26 AM PDT by freedom9
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To: expatguy
The question is... Are you prepared to kill them?

A like question undoubtedly was asked in August of 1945.

39 posted on 05/06/2004 12:04:02 AM PDT by navyblue
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To: Pikamax
This is the politically correct, multi-culturalism monster!

At the risk of repeating myself, there are some cultures that simply are not compatible with others.

40 posted on 05/06/2004 12:07:59 AM PDT by navyblue
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