BUSH MAKES THE CALL: NO FULL SCALE FALLUJAH OFFENSIVE

The Drudge Report ^ | April 25, 2004 | Matt Drudge

[threat matrix]

developing tonight..header for now

[Prime Choice]

Understand- under LBJ the White House regularly micro-managed the details of military operations, ruled various targets off-limits for no good reason, and dictated a strategy which maximized the number of forces in-country while minimizing their potential uses.

And this is different from the current Iraq situation (with specific regard to backing off the insurgents in Fallujah) how exactly?

[sgt.k-bar]

I agree-no negotiations! I believe a solution for Fallujah is first place a curfew and declare martial law. Anyone with a weapon will be shot and killed not arrested. Surround the city, no one in or out. Shut off the water,electricity and food supplies. Only allow these priviliges to return as they comply. Brake the city down by grids and hit each grid aggressively! Let these insurgents know that there will be no quarter and all insurgents will be killed! These guys are cowards and they only understand brutality. Let the Marines do their jobs-they are trained killers and not policemen! Increase the Marine sniper teams and do not negotiate until total there is a total surrender by all of the joe jhadis! These insurgents are deathly afraid of Marines and the Marines really want to square Fallujah away now! God Bless our Troops!
Semper Fi~

[idkfa]

The Battle of Bagsak (Philippines 1913)

The battle of Bagsak had its beginnings several months before the actual assault of the crater. The mountain peak had been for some time the rendezvous of the outlaw element of all of the southern islands, and the big problem the Americans faced was that of getting the women and children off the hill before the final clean-up was made.

So long as the Moros saw that the American troops were inactive and in barracks many of the women and children would be sent down to work in the fields, but at the first suggestion of an American expedition all of the non-combatants would be recalled to the mountain. As General Pershing had stated, when the Moro makes his last stand, he wishes his women and children with him. The Moros kept a very close check on General Pershing, for every visit of the General to Jolo was the signal for a stampede to Bagsak. Pershing soon discovered that the taking of Bagsak without the slaughter of women and children would have to be an undertaking planned with the greatest secrecy. In planning the campaign, Pershing exercised rare judgment.

To begin with, he kept his plans absolutely to himself, not even confiding in his closest officers. On June 5 he sent a telegram to the commanding officer at Jolo calling off all field operations and ordering the troops into barracks. Four days later he announced publicly that he would visit his family at Camp Kiethley in Mindanao and with that apparent plan in mind he sailed from Zamboanga on the evening of June 9. When the transport Wright was well out of sight of Zamboanga the course was changed and the ship picked up the 51st Company of Scouts at Basilan, proceeding on to Siasi to load the 52nd Scout Company.

With lights out and the smokestack muffled, the Wright then crept into Jolo harbor late on the night of June 10. The maneuver was wholly unexpected and the General found the American soldiers at a moving picture show. The call to arms was sounded and in an incredibly short time the troops were en route to Bagsak.

All of the forces were concentrated at Bun Bun on the beach and by five o'clock in the morning the advance on Bagsak had begun.

-snip-

More at http://www.bakbakan.com/swishk/swk3-24.html

[victoryatallcosts]

Bingo.

Hell, for all we know, that could very well be the strategy.

See what happens. It doesn't really make it any easier to wage a war if you've got the President's supporters second-guessing his strategic decisions before the results have been seen- hours after he's made them.

It seems to me that they concluded that a full-scale offensive into the city (with all of the attendent risks) was not worth the trouble.

After all, the insurgents are the aggressors and, if they want to do a damned thing, they'll have to take on the US. Let them come to the Marines rather then sending Marines in for house-to-house battle.

[zarf]

Nonsense. Civilian leaders often make much better decisions than the "pros" in the military.

Often the pressures of politics relegates strategic military choices to the back of the deck.

The result often confirms the wisdom of that decision.....just ask Roosevelt or Lincoln...

[dinok]

"Oh, calm the hell down. Even if the absolute worst you can dream up about this is true, the war is hardly "lost.""

I'm old enough to remember Viet-nam, and it was lost here when our government started runing the war based on politics instead of the military situation.

The rags murdered our people and diplayed them for all the world to see on TV. Just like in '83 when the Beirut baraks blew up and we ran away.

I refuse to drink koolaid for GW.

[threat matrix]

Perhaps the White House has a few cards left to play, they want Sadr to relax a bit before crushing him? (for tactical advantage?)

[txrangerette]

I don't think it's politics. I
trust Team Bush to have proper
motives. Gen. Abizaid, I'll bet,
wants to try it this way; it seems
we've already ground down the low-
lifes there with our tactics.

[EaglesUpForever]

Let the Marines do their jobs-they are trained killers and not policemen!

Amen.

[Lael]

gunships are being used against concentrated or fortified targets

A well placed 105 mm Howitzer round will change anyone's Politics.

[Rebelbase]

""Why isn't the military deciding what is best?""

Because its not running for re-election.

[threat matrix]

Funny thing, I was looking at that historical battle account not too long ago..

[Prime Choice]

Can we start a rule of engagement for this thread that when all the military tactical "experts" on FreeRepublic start detailing the military strategy we SHOULD be using, they add their actual military expertise to back up their opinion.

I'll agree to that if -- if, mind you -- I can get a similar restriction on all criticism of the space program based on solid, feasible aerospace engineering solutions in addition to the contributor's listing verifiable work experience with the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

But I'm sure that's got a snowball's chance in Hell...as does your proposal. Nice thought anyways...

[lancer]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1124313/posts

Not to worry; check out this thread. Why lose a bunch of good men when you can slowly "attrition" the enemy? Love it!

[ohioWfan]

I'm old enough to remember Viet-nam, and it was lost here when our government started runing the war based on politics instead of the military situation.

Then you should be old enough and smart enough that this single headline doesn't mean there is ANY parallel between Bush and LBJ.

Whose kool-aid are YOU drinking? You're certainly not being rational here.......

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

[Concerned about the repercussions an attack could generate across Iraq and the Arab world, senior U.S. military and civilian officials have decided to try to confront a band of hard-core Sunni Muslim insurgents by having Marines conduct patrols act as targets in the city alongside Iraqi security forces...]

This is crazy.

[victoryatallcosts]

Because you have no idea of what happened beyond a little snippet on the Drudge Report. Further, this was clearly a strategic decision, not a tactical one. He'd be micro-managing if he was deciding which buildings to storm and which not to storm and what sort of ammunition the Marines were allowed to use. Deciding if a major offensive, involving thousands of men, should be launched or not launched is a decision which, in this situation, properly rests with the Commander-in-Chief.

[Sender]

but I doubt if that would find widespread approval

True but the countries that would hate us if we bombed Fallujah are the same countries that will hate us if we don't bomb Fallujah.

[ex-snook]

We need an overwhelming force to end the war on terrorism quickly and save soldier lives. A long slog with an inadequate force doesn't cut it while making enemies galore.

The other option is start the draft soon. With a long war on terrorism in Afgan and Iraq followed by slogging onto Iran, Syria, and NK, we will need a huge force to conquer and occupy.

If the nation's youth is convinced on the 'war on terrorism' why is there worry about the draft? [PS I wrote 'if']

[lancer]

Check out post #74.