Kerry Bronze Star Certificate signature questioned. Investigation warranted?

Kerry's PDF Military Files on his Website ^ | 4-15-04 | me

[moondoggie]

How come the paperwork on Kerry's Bronze Star Award is signed by John Lehman, Sec. of the Navy????

In addition, the date Lehman (supposedly) signed it is not on the document.

Did Kerry not get the award when Chaffee was Secretary of the Navy? If not, why not?

Did Kerry get the award 15 years late?

Or is the paperwork a "sham" and somebody made a big booboo?

I'll post the document as soon as I find it again. Maybe somebody here has it bookmarked? And, if there's already been a thread on this that I missed....please direct me to the proper thread.

Thanks!

[Lokibob]

The "V" device on the bronze star medal does not indicate 5 bronze stars, it indicates "valor" or earned under fire, as opposed to a bronze star with out "v" device. With out would be a clerk who served in a combat area, but didn't see combat, or a clerk in Guam that worked 18 hours a day for a year, you get the idea.

I know, I got one bronze star with a "v" device. No way did I get 5 bronze stars.

[stylin19a]

Is it possible Kerry's records were destroyed in the 1973 St. Louis fire, in which approx. 18 million military records were destroyed ?

This would explain the need to rewrite the citation.

[Mo1]

From that link you posted

He also said he left early because he had turned on the war. One of his crewmates, Michael Medeiros, said Kerry ensured that his men were given a non-threatening assignment before he left Vietnam.

How is it that a Lt. Kerry has that kind of pull to ensure his crew were given non-threatening assignments?

[Robert A Cook PE]

1. Kerry's original citation was earned while Chaffee was Secretary of the Navy.

2. Kerry's ACTUAL (original) citation WAS signed by the admiral of the Pacific Fleet (Nbr 3 star in the Navy!) several years after he left the service. That citation (the paper designating him for the medal - CANNOT be changed or revised. It IS the specific official record of the specific actions that earned him (supposedly!) the medal.

3. Unlike what several have said, "replacing" medals (which was NEVER done in any case, since Kerry still has his original medals!) does NOT require re-writing and changing the original official citation! Further, there is no reason to "replace" the citation - since the original is obviously available - and always HAS BEEN available!)

4. Lehman was NOT Secretary of the Navy until long after Kerry left the service, but WAS Secretary of the Navy when Kerry first got power in Washington as a Senator.

5. Lehman did sign a revised, re-typed, "official"
expanded and "sexier" citation for the SAME ACTION that Kerry already had received an award from the admiral! We have seen his signature as "Secretary of the Navy" and have compared both versions of the award.

6. Think of it like this: Your marriage certificate was signed by of Justice of the Peace in Reno.

You want a photo of your wedding in St Patrick's Cathedral with the archbishop attending and twelve maidens and 45 butlers attending.

So, as a new member of Congress, you go to the archbishop, tell him you will take away his tax exemption next year unless he signs a new wedding certificate and gives you the cathedral for an evening to take pictures.

Now, when were you married? Where where you actually married? Where the first document said you were? Or where the last document said you were?

Why did it matter so much for you to PRETEND to get a replacement wedding photograph in St Patrick's Cathedral?

[Chad Fairbanks]

Well, first, you have to define what, exactly, a "non-threatening" assignment would have been in Viet Nam in 1969... Personally, I can't think of any but I wasn't there - I can only go by what I've heard from family members that were...

[Robert A Cook PE]

No. We have copied of the orignal posted above in this thread.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Easy to do.

He was a Senator.

It was Washington, DC.

March, 2001? Plenty of Clinton appointees still around.

No conspiracy needed. Just one phone call.

[cookcounty]

" HIS DD FORM 214 SAYS "BRONZE STAR WITH ACTION 'V'" "

Is this the original 214? Were the documents physically released by the DoD? Or by campaign headquarters?

[Chad Fairbanks]

By his campaign. I doubt the DoD would just unilaterally release records like this.

[MJY1288]

Not so, Click on the link I provided and you will see that you can purchase any *medal* you want

[kabar]

I did. Pieces of History is a commercial firm which sells replicas. I don't know how they compare in terms of quality to the real thing. They are not official and you can't get these medals from the Exchange.

[kabar]

see my post 351. I am sure you can buy copies of anything, but that doesn't make them official.

[dalebert]

I think by campaign quaters released the information. Who recomended Kerry for his awards?

[Chad Fairbanks]

Who recomended Kerry for his awards?

Kerry???

[MJY1288]

What makes a *medal* official is the Citation that accompanies it. The medal is an ornament representing an action. The replacement medals are no different from the originals. Forget the symantics, what we are debating here is the difference between the original Citations and the replacement Citations that are signed over a decade later and have been altered.

[dalebert]

Vet I know tried to get his PH replaced but they told him no because his records were destroyed in that fire. No records not copy of citation or medal.

[William Tell]

Lokibob said: "I know, I got one bronze star with a "v" device. No way did I get 5 bronze stars."

I said in a post above that I the confusion regarding "four bronze stars" might be a motivation for Kerry having amended his DD214.

The Bronze Star medal can be awarded for valor or for meritorious service. The "v" device distinquishes the two.

The VietNam Service Medal is awarded to any serviceman who served in the VietNam theater of war during a specific period. In addition, small bronze star-shaped devices can be affixed to the ribbon to indicate that the wearer was present during specific campaigns while in the theater of war. My recollection is that one need only be present for one day during a campaign to be entitled to the bronze star device indicating that campaign.

Some career soldiers served multiple tours in VietNam and the number of campaigns during which they served could equal or exceed five. Wearers of the VietNam Service Medal may substitute a small silver star device to indicate five campaigns.

Thus, a career soldier who by chance served during all 29 campaigns recognized during the VietNam War would be entitled to wear five small silver star devices and four small bronze star devices on his VietNam Service Medal and/or the ribbon which represents that medal. Nine such devices would make a very crowded ribbon but there is probably enough room for a row of silver stars and a row of bronze stars to indicate such a perfect attendance record.

The Bronze Star medal and the small bronze star device associated with the VietNam Service Medal are two entirely different things.

[FR_addict]

"Good work, Vel. The lack of dates on Kerry's documents is particularly peculiar, too."

Evidently these letters don't usually have dates on them -- post 129

[RightOnline]

It's a stamp, of course.

[null and void]

Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC...