Local atheist: Contested [pledge] phrase is a hate crime

Minneapolis Star Tribune ^ | March 25, 2004 | Kevin Diaz

[Schatze]

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Marie Alena Castle, a Minneapolis atheist, contends that the phrase "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance is a hate crime.

Not one to stand idly by in the face of perceived injustice, the 77-year-old former Catholic has written a long brief to the U.S. Supreme Court in support of California atheist Michael Newdow, who urged the justices Wednesday to drop "under God" from the pledge.

Castle's brief is one of more than 50 that have been submitted in the case, which tests the constitutional prohibition on the official establishment of religion.

But Castle's is the only one that sets forth the thesis that Congress put "under God" into the pledge out of hostility toward atheists.

Supporters of the current pledge -- backed by the Bush administration -- argue that it merely reflects the role that religion has played in the nation's history and that it is more of a civic ritual than a religious one.

A retired business and technical writer with no background in law, Castle rests her argument on congressional records dating to 1954, at the height of the Cold War, when Congress inserted "under God" into the pledge.

She cites a speech by Congressman Louis Rabaut, the Michigan Democrat who sponsored the addition of the two-word phrase. He said: "You may argue from dawn to dusk about differing political, economic and social systems, but the fundamental issue which is the unbridgeable gap between America and Communist Russia is a belief in Almighty God . . ."

Given the level of hostility at the time, Castle said, "it is not an overstatement to call it a hate crime."

Castle's is the only atheist brief from Minnesota, the headquarters of a 300-member national group that she calls Atheists for Human Rights. She said the history of the pledge underscores how atheists have often been villified and attacked as "an unpopular group."

[Jaded]

No kidding.

[antiRepublicrat]

You're assuming facts not in evidence. As a matter of fact, I'm agnostic.

BTW, the way the board is set up, it's tough being the first poster. Replies to the article go to you, so you might assume I meant you personally. I didn't.

[broadsword]

How does it violate your rights? Just don't say it. The thing is that you want to violate our right to free speech and to express our belief in God. We are not trying to silence you. You are trying to silence us.

And your 1.7 million can also be expressed like this: 488/2 (rounding up).

So in a room of 490 people, 488 of them are to be silenced on the whim of two, when their words brought no threat or harm to the whiney two, except that it reminded them of their emptyness. Too bad.

[Jaded]

Be careful. Be very careful. We've been held hostage before by whackjobs. Why just in February. That mess isn't fixed yet.

[Schatze]

I think you meant .6 percent, which is still about 1.7 million people. So if you're going to use god in a way that interferes with the religious beliefs of people, remember that you are violating the rights of 1.7 million of them.

You're right, it's .6 percent. But all the kids have to do is just not say the words "under God" when reciting the pledge. If hearing or seeing the word God offends them, then they had best move to a communist country because they will be offended every day in this country.

[fella]

the 77-year-old is getting close to finding out if she's right or wrong.

[broadsword]

I'm just tired of the majority dictating to the minority in issues where there are constitutional protections.

Tell us which clause in the Constitution protects you from hearing other prople express their religious views according to their first amendment rights?

But don't get me wrong, I don't care about God in the pledge. I think it's stupid and divisive and against the spirit of this country, but it doesn't affect me.

More nonsense. This country was founded by and built by Christians.

I will care if my daughter's public school starts requiring her to state allegiance to a perceived Christian religious organization ("nation under God")

What a straw man that is. Be serious.

or face ridicule or punishment for refusing to do so.

This is not happening ANYWHERE! Do you HAVE a single real argument, or are you afraid to put your hatred for Christians into words?

[antiRepublicrat]

You are welcome here

I was born and raised here and fought in a war for my country. You bet your ass I'm welcome here, and don't need anyone to tell me that. I am not a guest in my own country because I believe differently than the majority.

If an atheist wants to change the status quo then as a citizen he has every right to, same as a Christian who perceives deficiencies in current law and practice. An example of such Christian activism is what happened in 1954, the reason "under God" is even a subject of discussion now.

[Schatze]

I will care if my daughter's public school starts requiring her to state allegiance to a perceived Christian religious organization ("nation under God") ...

The words "nation under God" does not eqaute to allegiance to a Christian religious organization. Many religions are monotheistic, including Judaism and, of course, Islam. I'm beginning to think all atheists are paranoid.

[antiRepublicrat]

The idea of atheism had to come from somewhere

You have it the wrong way. The idea of religion came from somewhere. Atheism is the default you're born with, although most people have a propensity towards wanting eternal life and concrete answers to all questions of the unknown, which religion provides.

[antiRepublicrat]

Try Christians, fat people, smokers ... and the French

Christians can't be ridiculed, although individual wacko ones and movements can. The fat thing has already gone PC, you can get in trouble at work for it.

I'll give you smokers, that means I have two strikes.

And the French deserve it. :)

[ridesthemiles]

Where do these people come from?

I have often thought: These kooks didn't come out of the womb so twisted and hateful. What event (s) happened to them to send them down such paths of delusion and unhappiness? If it weren't so disruptive, it would be both sad and funny at the same time. How much time has been spent on these people pushing themselves to the top of the media heap, sucking up time and oxygen in the courts?
Sometimes I really long for the 1950's. Less than 5% of the kids in school were problems, and the rest of us got an education....Can't say that today. I cannot even imagine doing deliberate damage to the school facilities-breaking sinks, toilets, lockers-and today it is common. No wonder the schools are broke. Paying way too much for the teachers and their benefits, and replacing/repairing the facilities at an accelerated rate each year. All the propaganda about how important a teacher is in society- They are, too bad we don't have very many who can teach and effect discipline. Today they are one step removed from being "custodians or guards" of humans between the ages of 5 and 18 while those are channelled from room to room and building to building, finally emerging out the end of the "education" pipe mostly useless as employees or candidates for further education. SIGH!!!

[eyespysomething]

Once again, libs confusing interesting for compelling.

[ridesthemiles]

divorcing your wife who believes in God

What wife? Newdow and the mother NEVER married, and SHE has custody of the child. He is a scumbag who has absolutely no ethics. He was educated as a doctor. He practices in an emergency room. Then he went back to school and got a lawyer ticket. NOW, he SUES doctors for "malpractice". Talk about biting the hand that feeds you...

[antiRepublicrat]

Cite a single reference to discrimination being "still on the books" (i.e. a law).

Texas Constitution: "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being. "

[ridesthemiles]

I'm tired of seeing this country overrun by small groups of zealots.


AMEN

[Schatze]

Christians can't be ridiculed

Really? Ever seen the movies "Dogma" and "The Last Temptation of Christ"?

And the French deserve it. :)

We definitely agree on that score.

[HungarianGypsy]

That's a cute picture. Hope you don't mind, I just set it as my background.

[broadsword]

Surprising. Even though it is not enforced, the super-minority Impuritans will surely abolish it before long, because of the GRAVE DANGER it poses to the republic.

[MEGoody]

LOL I doubt this senile old biddy's rantings will help Newdow's cause. He's probably sitting there thinking, "Shut up, you old bat!"