Army sets sights on XM8, a lighter, more-reliable rifle

Newark Star Ledger ^ | 3/21/2004 | Wayne Woolley

[Incorrigible]

The replacement, called the XM8, is under development at Picatinny Arsenal in Morris County and is being tested at Fort Benning, Ga.

Developers say the rifle with the futuristic-looking curves is a marked improvement over the M-16 because it is shorter, lighter, easier to clean and unlikely to jam in a firefight -- an M-16 shortcoming illustrated in the ambush that wounded former POW Jessica Lynch and killed 11 of her comrades in Iraq.

[endthematrix]

Thanks for ping. I'll continue using a term that's understood by EVERYBODY until someone fails to understand the "wrong" designation.

[Buffalo Head]

You just don't get it, do you?

[archy]

Are those M-14's and Garands maybe going to the US for sale? Wishful thinking but not too overboard.

A few are going to get stripped of parts as donors to keep others working, then are turned in as evidence of *peaceful intentions.*

Most of the remaing ones so refurbished are then nicely greased, wrapped in plastic garbage bags, and buried with enough ammo to get a new weapon and ammo from an adversary. Accordingly, other than a few for museums, don't bet on their coming back. Should there be an effort by a future American Democrat or globalist to restore Aristide or worse, they may be needed again.

There's a lesson for all of us there....

-archy-/-

[supercat]

It is just as inappropriate to use an obsolete cartridge name, as it is to address someone’s wife by her maiden name. Practice either displays ignorance or malice.

There are times when a woman should be referred to by her maiden name. For example, in discussing actions she performed prior to marriage, use of the maiden name would generally be appropriate.

What caliber is used by a WWI-era Tommy gun?

[archy]

The American Nation Standards Institute (ANSI), in conjunction with the Sporting Arms and Manufactures Institute (SAAMI) establish formal names and formal abbreviations for SAAMI member cartridges. Period! Not gun writers or uninformed shooters. IT IS THE HEADSTAMP AND BARREL MARKINGS, STUPID! Look at them. (and please don’t waste your time by using foreign imports to buttress your lame argument.

[Screaming_Gerbil]

..Remember, a combat unit is not individual riflemen on the range. The power of the unit resides principally in its MGs and mortars...

Question: What would be the best rifle for the "Second Amendment Miltia", which would not have those assets available to it?

[longtermmemmory]

will there be a civilian version of this?

[archy]

What caliber is used by a WWI-era Tommy gun?

WWI was over by the time John Taliefero Thompson had his first working prototypes running. Thompson Number 1 is simply marked "Calibre .45*."

But early Model 1921 Thompsons from the first production run manufactured by Colt were marked thusly, with the Navy adding additional property/nomenclature stampings:

[archy]

Question: What would be the best rifle for the "Second Amendment Miltia", which would not have those assets available to it?

The *Second Amendment Militia* WOULD have those weapons available to them, both from those support weapons and ammunition brought along by those troops faithful to their oath to the constitution, and from those weapons taken from those opposing them.<p. Light antitank missiles, guided and not, recoilless rifles, mortars and MANPADS AA defense weapons would all not only be useful, but nearly mandatory for such units intending upon remaining operational for longer than a day or two at most.

[Squantos]

The one you have at hand with ammo when and if the need ever arises IMHO..........

Well regulated as I understand it dealt with a common caliber of weapon for logistics. Not licensed or pedigreed per se. That's just my opinion of course. If I were to guess or make a choice of a standard arm it's have to be currently an AR style or at least a .223/5.56mm caliber for that logistical reason and the odd battlefield pickup/loan.

Stay Safe !

[Screaming_Gerbil]

Thanks for the replies.

These people seem to have one of everything...

[archy]

I dont recognize the weapon?

Reworked M1/M1A1 Thompson for the *Aliens* Sci-Fi movie.

[archy]

Who is this dentist that you are referring to?

Feed me, Seymour:

[archy]

Thanks for the replies. These people seem to have one of everything

Yep. Somebody once said that consistancy is the hobgoblin of small minds.

It's true that having about half of the hardware be of a standard/uniform type simplifies training and logistics, but for small units depending on cached supplies, whether regulars or militia, there's also an advantage to be had in having a variety of usable calibers so that a shortage of any one is not a critical shortfall. It's to be expected that as ammo is expended, some pickup weapons become available, with the ammunition in part supplying the weapon so recovered, and a portion cross-leveled to other users already so equipped. THe Finns in their 1939 war against the million and a half Soviet invaders were masters in this respect, simply resupplying from the enemy dead.

The people from Michigan in the BDUs don't look to be that badly off: 3 M16 variants, 2 in the 7,62 Soviet M43, 3 questionable or unequipped, and one with a probable .22 rimfire, which has some very interesting uses at night. And at least one 840 round ammo can visible. Hopefully there'd be some LAWS or M136 AT4's carried by those appearing discretely unequipped, maybe a SAW or a couple of scoped long rifles as well.

Others elsewhere might find a different mix more suitable, as per the following *Magnificent Seven*:

[archy]

will there be a civilian version of this?

Internally, the XM8 is very similar to both the commercially available though now discontinued H&K SL-8, now selling for around $1000 each for those who figure having one is a necessity. And for those looking to mount scopes, targeting lasers, night or thermal vision or other battery eaters on one, Knight makes their rail interface foreend available for the SL8 in the $300 range.

Alternately, the Armalite AR180b is a stamped-receiver 5,56mm variant of the parent AR18 design, adaptable to the same XM-8 configuration if there's a market for it, and now available in the $650-$750 range.

Some custom work would be required, no big deal for someone who just HAS to have an XM8-semi. But oh yes, it could be done. It can be done right now.

[Criminal Number 18F]

What would be the best rifle for the "Second Amendment Miltia", which would not have those assets available to it?

For that purpose, it's whatever you can hit consistently with (meaning, you have to be able to afford to practice!) and can keep in stock, or be confident that in a "militia callout" you can obtain, ammunition. Usually that has meant something that fires the calibre of a current military issue weapon. Those calibres are 5.56. 7.62 NATO, and, soon, 6.8 x 43. Other rounds the military can order include most foreign calibres and 12 Ga. shotgun, as well as bigger stuff like several versions of .50 (12.7 x 99 BMG). But the oddball stuff is probably too odd for you... in the earlier years of my career we still got WWII surplus ammo in .30, .50. .45 and 9mm, but the last of that stuff was gone well before 1990 and except for 9mm (which is an iffy choice for a long gun, ask the SEALs who hit Grenada) they are now hard to get in the system.

You would have to figure out what circumstances your militia might be called out in. There are a lot of circumstances in which armed and disciplined men could be of assistance (think LA riots) and it makes little difference how they are armed. I couldn't begin to imagine all the scenarios; FReepers like Jeff Head and Travis McGee might have some good suggestions on this.

Probably the thing that makes good sense is get the gun you like best among the ones you can afford to keep shooting regularly, because the more you like it the more you will shoot it and I am convinced that the more you shoot in practice the better you shoot in combat. (Don't underestimate the value of marksmanship instruction either. Most American guys think they are natural shots. Nobody is. What's worse, guys are hard to teach anything to... the women pay more attention and often end up shooting better).

I am a firm believer in optical sights. The most important thing an optical sight does is put your target and aiming point in the same focal plane. This is especially crucial if you are over 40 because presbyopia starts to set in.

Laser pointers are also good. My issue weapon is set up with an ACOG scope, a PEQ-2 IR laser pointer, and a vane switch for operating the PEQ. I have tried the other stuff and I would change to an EoTech holographic sight if I expected close-in trouble. But this is all cool stuff that the taxpayer's bought. When it's your own money, a 12-bore pump shotgun is the heat for home defence, and any good hunting rifle in .308 is a good choice for humans... plus, you can hunt with it. (Try THAT with an FAL or HK91 and watch Fish and Game have a cow). I would recommend a good well-made and accurate hunting rifle over a cheap foreign military type weapon, like an SKS or AK.

The single most important thing is that you hit your target, not what you hit him with. A .22 short in the eye can kill, and I knew two officers who survived hits from Russian DShK .50s and returned to Special Forces duty.

Now, if you were organising a militia unit, you might want to establish some kind of standard.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

Aside - to the guy asking about the Dentist. I guess it doesn't matter to you that he claims (still) to be an operator, even though he isn't and never was, or that he fudges his medical profession. His SEAL claims came at some kind of special ops convention on the east coast; two guys personally known to me saw him with the trident on.

[Buffalo Head]

"What caliber is used by a WWI-era Tommy gun?"

1. The Thompson Sub Machine Gun was used in WWII, not WWI.

2. The military model TSMG's were all chambered for the CAL 45 M1911 cartridge.

3. Words have meanings.

4. The ignorant and/or uneducated soon reveal themselves.

5. When you find yourself in a hole, it is better to quit digging.

[Shooter 2.5]

I don't think you would want an M-1 after the Haitians were through with it.
If you want a genuine M-1, it's getting easier every time with the Civilian Marksmanship Program.
http://www.odcmp.com/

[Shooter 2.5]

That's funny.