The M468 is, to my knowledge, the first civilian-available rifle chambered in this caliber.
Posted on 03/21/2004 4:58:12 PM PST by Incorrigible
Edited on 07/06/2004 6:39:36 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
www.gunbroker.com
Those that do go - my experience is that your local gun shop buddy should be able to match new gun prices - this site is IMHO good for looking up older guns, getting educated a bit, and occasionally buying.
That will come as a great surprise to Army, Navy and Marine snipers, all of whom use 7,62mm boltguns and semiautos of slightly different specs, but all chambered for the 7,62 NATO cartridge.
There are also still quite a few M60Ds still in use as helicopter doorguns, preferred for that role by some though not me. And my local National Guard infantry unit still carries the M60; last time they went to the field their armorer came a-scrounging my way to see if I had a couple of extra combination tool wrenches and cleaning rod handles he could borrow or trade from me. I fixed him up.
Stay Safe !
Ya know, maybe you have me here. But try a MkI or MKI* Enfield... very, very slick.
Who was the guy promoting the Mosin-Nagant? I wonder if he's tried putting the safety on that sucker.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
If my insinuation is that he's a dentist and not an MD, you can check medical licences in his home state of California: http://www.medbd.ca.gov/Lookup.htm.
His dental license is here: http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/WLLQRYNA$LCEV2.QueryView?P_LICENSE_NUMBER=37762&P_LTE_ID=706. It's state Dental Licence number 37762 and he's clean (no disciplinary actions). He also has a conscious sedation permit -- meaning he can give you stuff to calm you down, but not put you out). But that's it.
But he doesn't just say, "I'm a dentist and a damn good one." Instead he tries to insinuate he's something more. Same thing with his military service. Dude, I have nothing against medical officers. We need them. We need the cooks and clerks (maybe, not so many clerks as we have...) and weather forecasters and guys that fix helicopters and gals that talk to the press for inarticulate colonels. As long as those people tell the truth about who they are and what they did, I want to hear what they have to say.
I have real, deep-seated problems with Dr. Roberts's integrity (in case you didn't notice!) because of this pattern of insinuating he's something more than he is. It's especially irritating because he has some rare credentials that speak well of him as a person (a dental license is not an easy thing to get, requiring above-average brains and years of dedicated work). He's got plenty to be proud of... why hide it?
As far as his ballistics avocation is concerned... let his data stand or fall on its own, and not based on an appeal to special status -- let alone phony special status.
As far as the 6.8mm, I have been told that he had none, zero, involvement in that project. Those involved directly on the military side are all combat veteran operators... the usual weapons-development crowd in the military was cut out, and I don't think that any of the website warriors was invited to participate (although some contractors were, and some of them post on those sites for promotional reasons).
Anyway, the 6.8 will be available for everybody to test pretty soon. Remington did some of the cartridge development gratis in return for being able to bring it to the civilian market. If it works well for special ops, expect the poor bloody infantry to get it next. From what I have seen of it, it isn't going to be more accurate or significantly longer-ranged than the M855 but it will trade off some ballistic-defense penetration for more effective energy transfer to human targets.
The Marines will do whatever they think is best for them to do. They weren't too keen on the M4 and if they get the M8s they might choose all long rifles except for radio ops, etc., as the Army did originally with the M16/M4 mix in the iinfantry (that went by the boards). I was never a Marine and don't think like Marines; like everyone else I just respect them!
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
PS to Travis: The Black Hills 77 grain is the heat. We couldn't get it through channels, "There's no DODAC for this", "yes there is," "Not in our supply channels, sorry," had to bum it off our friendly Naval personages. (they were the only ones that had Raufoss for the .50s too). Then the JAGs told us it was illegal because it wasn't "Army" ammo. Pffft. One team has bought a forklift-pallet of the stuff in case we go back before 6.8s come down. (Shooting ammo you bought privately is also a no-no, but what are they gonna do to us?) -C18F
Amen.
Seems Ronnie Barrett is "first on the block" with a civilian version. Oh, and it's available as a conversion kit, too!
The M468 is, to my knowledge, the first civilian-available rifle chambered in this caliber.
There's at least one notable exception to that statement, on the ammunition development side, the involvement of The Locksmith in the design and choice of the bullet utilized with the cartridge. As you say, he's not one for tooting his own horn on websites, though I've run into him on one cowboy shooter's site a couple of times.
In particular he picked my brain for numbers on tracer burnout distances for similar projectiles, [I've got a LOT of experience with 6.5 Swedish tracer] Sid Hance's 1950s Enfield EM-2 .276x44mm cartridge and rifle design and the related belt-fed TADEN SAW in the same chambering, intended to replace the water cooled Vickers heavy MG and the Bren autorifle. Other thoughts he had about the 7x44 Danish cartridge I directed to a more knowledgable source than I am on that matter, but at least I knew where the information lived.
There's nothing really new about the ballistics involved; both the British had this figured out pretty well after the First World War with their developmental .256 cartridge and later efforts, just as figures of no less stature than Pedersen and Garand worked with the .276 Pedersen cartridge and a semiauto rifle for U.S. troops- which gave us the M1 Garand, if not in a .270 service rifle chambering.
That is just one of the reasons the formal name was changed the 45 Auto prior to WWII.
“SAAMI is free to impose whatever labeling requirements they want on firearm or ammo manufacturers….”
The American Nation Standards Institute (ANSI), in conjunction with the Sporting Arms and Manufactures Institute (SAAMI) establish formal names and formal abbreviations for SAAMI member cartridges. Period! Not gun writers or uninformed shooters. IT IS THE HEADSTAMP AND BARREL MARKINGS, STUPID! Look at them. (and please don’t waste your time by using foreign imports to buttress your lame argument.
“Whoever designed the cartridge (or has rights of it) has the final say.” Wrong. SAAMI/ANSI has the final say.
“So, the name originally developed for the cartridge is no longer valid?
That is correct. The same is true for a host of other cartridges including 6mm Rem, 25 WCF, 30 WCF, 32 WCF, 38 WCF, 44 WCF, 22 Rem Spl, 7mm Rem Express, 30 USA, 30G1906, 38 Colt Special, 38 S&W Special, 357 S&W Magnum, etceteras. It is just as inappropriate to use an obsolete cartridge name, as it is to address someone’s wife by her maiden name. Practice either displays ignorance or malice.
“I guess I'm just not up on all the latest fads.” No, your are about 70 years behind the times.
Give it up. It is gone.
Buff
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