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To: Fester Chugabrew
The very fact that the laws of nature are constant over time testifies quite logically to intelligence and design.

That makes no sense. (to me.) What's totally intuitive is that objects with a certain velocity & energy content tend to stay at that state unless acted upon by something else. There's no reason to be surprised by the constancy of constants. IOW, if a constant changes, then the obvious question is what made it change.

The only issue science does not need to address is WHO is behind it all. That is for religion to address. But to assume that SOMEONE is beind all this intelligence and design is not at all unreasonable. No, it is far more unreasonable to assume all this intelligence and design came about of "it's own volition." Egads. That is but a frightful absurdity.

I say that the assumption that there's a someONE behind it all isn't reasonable at all. Everything we know about someONEs tells us that someONEs have histories, and are part of populations, came from parent someONEs, and hold their thoughts in material brains. So indeed if someONE is behind "it all", then either it's turtles all the way down or there exists a turtle of special pleading for some reason.

Now, if there's someTHING behind it all, the conceptual problems IMO are just as unsolvable. But the assumption that it's someTHING behind it all at least follows directly from our observations of the real world, and it doesn't smack of childish anthropomorphization.

198 posted on 03/14/2004 1:32:45 PM PST by jennyp (http://crevo.bestmessageboard.com)
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To: jennyp
There's no reason to be surprised by the constancy of constants.

Of course not. Neither is there any reason to be surprised at the notion that the presence of the same can be attributed to intelligence or design. I mean, if you were going to build something, is it unreasonable for me to assume that you would want it to act with consistency and design?

I say that the assumption that there's a someONE behind it all isn't reasonable at all.

I can see why it would require a certain leap of faith at this point, but it is no more a leap of faith than noONE.

By analogy, let's suppose you build something a turn it loose. If I were a component built into your object, and had conscieousness, should I really expect your personal involvement to manisfest itself in such a way that you would occasionally appear to me personally and speak to me? I don't think so.

If there is a WHO behind all the intelligent design we observe in the course of nature and history, would it be accurate of us to assume that that WHO must poke its head through the clouds every one in a while to remind us who's boss? I don't think so.

And if that WHO thought it was a good idea to build consciousness and free will into the object, do you think it would be proper to coerce the object thereafter?

The Bible says Jacob wrestled with God. Can you imagine that? I bet that will throw every evolutionist for a loop around the universe. Ha! Hehehe. We're all wrestling in our own way, aren't we?

229 posted on 03/14/2004 6:56:35 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: jennyp
Everything we know about...

Aye... there's the rub....


If we assume that "Everything we know" is "Everything there IS to know..." about something, we are going to be in trouble if we build upon an inadequate foundation.
248 posted on 03/15/2004 7:15:43 AM PST by Elsie (When the avalanche starts... it's too late for the pebbles to vote....)
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To: jennyp
...and it doesn't smack of childish anthropomorphization.

I guess ADULTS that do this would be made to sit in the orner until they promise to be good?

249 posted on 03/15/2004 7:17:56 AM PST by Elsie (When the avalanche starts... it's too late for the pebbles to vote....)
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