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Judge Says Gay Weddings Might Violate Law
AP via Yahoo ^ | Febuary, 17, 2004 | By DAVID KRAVETS and LISA LEFF, Associated Press Writers

Posted on 02/17/2004 9:53:05 PM PST by Simmy2.5

SAN FRANCISCO - A judge said San Francisco might be violating the law by issuing marriage licenses to gay and lesbian couples, but he declined Tuesday to order an immediate halt and the mayor said the weddings would continue.

A conservative group had asked Judge James Warren to immediately stop the weddings and void the 2,636 same-sex marriages performed at City Hall since Thursday. Instead, Warren told the city to "cease and desist" or return to court March 29 to explain why they haven't.

The nonbinding order frustrated conservatives who also failed earlier in the day to persuade another judge to halt the weddings as part of a separate challenge, which was filed by the Campaign for California Families. Judge Ronald Quidachay said he was not prepared to rule and told that group to return on Friday for another hearing.

Mayor Gavin Newsom said the city had no plans to stop the marriages.

"We will continue to do what we've done," he said. "There was nothing particularly compelling after today that makes me think that we should back off. In fact quite the contrary. After three hearings, I now feel more resolved."

The Proposition 22 Legal Defense and Education Fund had asked Warren, a San Francisco Superior Court judge, to issue an order commanding the city to stop issuing the licenses.

Warren's decision was "not 100 percent of what we were looking for," acknowledged Robert Tyler, a lawyer for the Alliance Defense Fund, which argued the case on behalf of the Proposition 22 group. Still, Tyler said he was pleased.

"The judge would not issue a cease and desist order unless the judge made a determination that the mayor is in violation," Tyler said.

Erwin Chemerinsky, a University of Southern California legal scholar, called the ruling a short-term victory for the city but said the ultimate decision would be made by a higher court.

"This is an issue that is going to be decided by the California Supreme Court," Chemerinsky said. "These are just the early stages of what's going to be a long legal battle."

Gay couples from as far as Europe have been lining up outside City Hall since Thursday, when city officials decided to begin marrying same-sex couples in a collective act of official civil disobedience.

Newsom has said the city will pursue a constitutional challenge through the courts. Newsom says the equal protection clause of the California Constitution makes denying marriage licenses to gay couples illegal.

"What trumps any proposition is the California Constitution," City Attorney Dennis Herrerra said Tuesday.

The conservatives want the courts to nullify the marriages and block the city from granting any more "gender-neutral" licenses.

The newly elected mayor's decision to permit gay marriages, while still legally unsettled, has intensified the national debate over whether same-sex couples should be allowed to marry and enjoy the many benefits only married couples receive.

The Campaign for California Families said state law explicitly defines marriage as "a personal relation arising out of a civil contract between a man and a woman." The group also argues that San Francisco is violating a ballot measure approved by California voters in 2000 that said only marriages between a man and woman are valid.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (news - web sites) urged city officials to stop the same-sex weddings.

"I support all of California's existing laws that provide domestic partnership benefits and protections," Schwarzenegger said in a statement. "However, Californians spoke on the issue of same-sex marriage when they overwhelmingly approved California's law that defines marriage as being between a man and a woman."

The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court in November ruled that its state constitution permits gay marriages. Lawmakers there are debating a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriages.

In Virginia, gay rights proponents scored victories in the conservative-leaning House of Delegates on measures involving access to health insurance and home loans.

The House, which last week passed a bill reaffirming the state's ban on gay marriage, narrowly passed legislation Monday that would allow employers to offer group insurance benefits to gay partners who live together. It rejected a measure seeking to make state mortgage loans available only to married heterosexuals or blood relatives.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: California; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: civilunion; gavinnewsom; gaymarriage; judges; lawbreakers; marriage; sf; stunt
I know there are a lot of topics on this issue, though I haven't seen this particular one. This one states that, the judges says that it "appears" to be illegal, but he isn't going to stop the marriages. Great standup judge huh?
1 posted on 02/17/2004 9:53:06 PM PST by Simmy2.5
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To: Simmy2.5
Seems both the judge and the mayor should be facing Pryor?Moore type punishment for this.

Being leftist though they won't, after all since when have leftists been bound by the law?

2 posted on 02/17/2004 9:58:54 PM PST by swilhelm73
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To: Simmy2.5
You have to wonder if both judges were threatened or felt threatened to issue the injuction
3 posted on 02/17/2004 10:02:03 PM PST by airedale
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To: Simmy2.5
"Judge Says Gay Weddings Might Violate Law.

It certainly violates nature.

4 posted on 02/17/2004 10:03:27 PM PST by blackbart.223
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To: Simmy2.5
A judge said San Francisco might be violating the law by issuing marriage licenses to gay and lesbian couples

Nah, ya think?

5 posted on 02/17/2004 10:36:36 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: blackbart.223
I'm thinking that some folks should drop in and request marriage licenses to marry their brothers, sisters, mothers, dads, etc.

The SF Mayor says that their office no longer discriminates, but it won't issue to siblings or blood relatives, even for homosexuals (like they could really pass on a genetic defect,eh?)

If a polygamist applies for a certificate and is refused, it will take a juge to explain why the state has no compelling interest in stopping gay marriage, but does have a compelling interest in stopping polygamy.

This isn't a slippery slope, it is a freakin cliff.

If the homosexuals get marriage, all bets are off on enforcing ANY kind of moral restraint. Because when society does that, it is stopping those who disagree with the general concept of morality. In other words, laws are biased against those who disagree with them.
6 posted on 02/17/2004 10:38:16 PM PST by Paloma_55
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To: Paloma_55
If a polygamist applies for a certificate and is refused, it will take a juge to explain why the state has no compelling interest in stopping gay marriage, but does have a compelling interest in stopping polygamy.

Actually, polygyny is not forbidden biblically, and indeed was practiced and accepted in Old Testament times. I don't know that many men could afford more than one wife, so I don't know to what extent polygyny caused any imbalance between the numbers of single men and women, but that would obviously be one problem with it.

It's interesting to note that outlawing polygyny significantly changed the 'value' of women. When polygyny was legal, a man would expect to pay a woman's father in exchange for her hand in marriage. Once polygany was outlawed, a woman's father would have to pay to be rid of her. Amazing how economics works, eh?

7 posted on 02/17/2004 11:13:27 PM PST by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: Simmy2.5
Great standup judge huh?

Show me a judge with a spine these days and I'll show you a liberal activist judge.

8 posted on 02/17/2004 11:17:24 PM PST by PeoplesRepublicOfWashington
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To: Simmy2.5
Let them go on. Let them play at doing what other people do in earnest. The secret here is going to be to get hold of the records of all these people who "married". Let's follow up on it. Give it one year--no, give it one month! Let's see how many of the alleged couples actually are faithful to one another, and actually live together, and actually stick together, excluding all others, in sickness and in health, etc.

Guaranteed: we'll find that a large number of them did it just b/c they like the absurdity of it. Or b/c it made for an interesting diversion for a few hours.

Then, if anyone notes that these couples have not acted as married couples traditionally do, THEN we're going to hear: "Well, you know, marriage means different things to different people... marriage doesn't necessarily mean you can't date... marriage doesn't mean you necessarily share stuff, you know... marriage doesn't necessarily mean you live together, you know... marriage doesn't necessarily mean you sleep together, you know... marriage is whatever a person wants it to be."

Bwaaaaaaahaha! Oh, the hedging there will be. Oh, the relativism! Pretty soon "marriage" will be defined as the equivalent of doing the nasty with someone in a bathroom stall for 20 minutes. Hee. At that point, those who DO understand what marriage is really for, will have to re-name it.

B/C try as they might, they can't turn themselves into couples whose parts fit together perfectly. And there isn't a homosexual couple in the world who doesn't have to send out (as one might order a pizza), in order to get children.
9 posted on 02/18/2004 5:39:44 AM PST by Devil_Anse
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To: supercat
Kinda tangential...

My point was that there are behaviors that are forbidden by law... one of them polygamy, and yet we have homosexuals claiming that they should be allowed.

If we allow homosexual marriage, there is no foundation for refusing polygamy and eventually, even pedophilia.

Currently, pedophilia is considered a bad thing because minors are not considered capable of consent, but if the gay-activists get their way, they will reduce the age of consent and that argument will be rendered null and void.

It is a strict case of incrementalism. Many of us saw it coming 30 years ago and predicted that some day people would be demanding homosexual marriage. We were considered to be extremists and exaggerating our case. We were right.
10 posted on 02/19/2004 8:10:56 PM PST by Paloma_55
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To: Paloma_55
IMHO, conservatives need to shift focus away from the religious issues and instead focus on a couple of key secular points:

-1- By far, the best environment for raising children is a stable family with both a mommy and a daddy. The mommy and daddy have different roles, and so a child with 'two mommies' will lack a father figure, and one with 'two daddies' will lack a maternal figure. While it is sometimes unavoidable that children will be raised without having both a mommy and a daddy, children should not be disadvantaged without cause.

-2- Every culture that is known to have ever existed for any significant duration has perpetuated itself by having males marry one or more females, sire children, and raise them. Although some might recognize artificial legal relationships among people of the same sex, I know of none that would regard such relationships as being "marriage".

-3- Although the "civil union" concept should not be construed as state permission to engage in sodomy, there are cases in which it might be appropriate for the state to recognize the joining in one household of people who would be ineligible to marry; two widowed siblings, for example, might join in a household so they could both care for their combined families. Such a joining should not be considered a "marriage", but it would not be unreasonable for the siblings to grant each other rights of survivorship, etc. and to codify that if one should die the other should be allowed to adopt his children.

On this last point, btw, it should be made clear that because civil unions are not marriages, it should be up to employers and insurance companies to decide what sorts of relationships they will acknowledge. Of course, liberals hate freedom, and so it's possible that it would be better to scrap the concept of civil unions for everyone--even though there are some people for whom they would be appropriate--than to allow gays to force employers to pick up insurance costs for their friends.

11 posted on 02/19/2004 11:57:55 PM PST by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: Paloma_55
My point was that there are behaviors that are forbidden by law... one of them polygamy, and yet we have homosexuals claiming that they should be allowed.

I don't recall homosexuals saying polygyny should be allowed; rather, it's conservatives who are asking homosexuasl why, if homosexuality is allowed, polygyny shouldn't be also. An attempted reducio ad absurdiam argument, and one conservatives would do well to avoid, given that polygyny has historically been accepted to varying degrees in many cultures, whereas no culture has ever accepted the concept of a man/man or woman/woman "marriage" which was fully analagous to a man/woman one.

12 posted on 02/20/2004 12:34:20 AM PST by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: supercat
" I don't recall homosexuals saying polygamy should be allowed; rather, it's conservatives who are asking homosexuasl why, if homosexuality is allowed, polygamy shouldn't be also.."


Perhaps my wording was less than clear.

Polygamy is currently illegal in this country. The basis for that law, the one that stands constitutional scrutiny in light of the 14th amendment's "equal protection" is that there is a compelling interest for government to protect marriage. The compelling interest is that marriage provides the basis for a nuclear family, which has been the foundation of our society since history has been recorded.

Homosexuals are now arguing 14th amendment protections justify the removal of laws forbidding homosexual marriage. If they were successful, that foundation would be eliminated.

A gay marriage is not equivalent to a heterosexual marriage, and thus the foundation that government has a compelling interest to protect it would be eliminated. Once removed, polygamists, siblings, parent-child, etc would have grounds to claim equivalence under the 14th.

Is that more clear?

13 posted on 02/20/2004 6:02:16 AM PST by Paloma_55
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To: supercat
"IMHO, conservatives need to shift focus away from the religious issues and instead focus on a couple of key secular points:..."

Funny... my perspective that homosexual behavior is deviant has absolutely nothing to do with religion. Never did. I don't think the biblical condemnation is necessary any more than to condemn adultery, promiscuity, or other forms of bad behavior.

I agree with your latter points.

I would have no problem with domestic partnerships and think they should be allowed in whatever form people want to construct. This is not a state endorsement, it is a recognition that people have a right to form contracts with each other.


All that said, there is a substantial effort by homosexual activists to normalize their behavior and they won't stop until we (society) endorse it to the highest level, which means gay marriage.

Once they make this step, they will begin to outlaw people speaking against homosexuality as a hate crime, much like what is going on in Canada right now.
14 posted on 02/20/2004 6:16:42 AM PST by Paloma_55
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