Craig Barrett confirms 64 bit address extensions for Xeon. And Prescott (Intel follows AMD )

The Inquirer ^ | Tuesday 17 February 2004, 18:13 | INQUIRER staff:

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Intel Developer Forum We’d like to welcome Doctor Transformation

By INQUIRER staff: Tuesday 17 February 2004, 18:13

CRAIG BARRETT kicked off the Intel Development Forum by saying the economy had started to pick up.

But once he'd got that stuff out of the way, he confirmed that Nocona, its next generation of Xeons, will have 64-bit address extensions which he described as the worst kept secret in San Francisco. Right.

Steve Ballmer said in a video that Microsoft was very excited by the introduction of 64 bit extensions. People would continue to run their existing applications in 32-bit. This adds versatility and scaleability for workstations and servers.

There was already a beta of Microsoft Windows for Intel's 64-bit extensions.

Intel will introduce 64-bit extensions for desktop Prescotts later in the year and for Potomac next year.

Barrett didn't say whether the technology was compatible with AMD 64. He'll be asked that in the Q&A following his keynote, no doubt.

Barrett showed off software that takes advantage of the 64-32 bit extensions. The 64-bit extensions allow for better levels of detail.

But, before that, Kicking Pat Gelsinger showed Barrett as a young man, said he was dubbed Doctor D, and showed the differences between the past and present then by introducing the distinguished elderly gent.

Governments are making investments in technology. Every business round the world has recognized the power of IT to make business more competitive.

Creating, preserving and accessing content helps to train the next generation, he said.

There’s no place to hide from digital technology, he said.

Companies like Ford were able to shorten their product cycles. The car company uses IT to cut down development of new models from four years to 22 months, said Barrett.

Microprocessors are shipping in unprecedented volumes, he said. This growth is sustained and rational.

Technology is being used to discover the creation of the Universe said Barrett, while Stephen Hawking claimed the Itanium 2 powered his life in a short video he showed.

Dangerous territory. Hawking said it must be boring being god and having nothing left to discover. Hawking is an atheist. We don’t know if Barrett is.

Twenty years ago it was exciting to throw out a new bit of silicon without knowing what effect it would have. Now the challenge is to make sure that supporting technologies are there.

He underlined Intel’s support for the Itanium 2, with 50 OEMs. The Itanium will use multithreading and support PCI Express, he said.

Barrett wheeled out a sharp looking gentleman in suit and tie to say that Morgan Stanley used the Itanium 2 to make its business leaner and meaner.

Barrett demonstrated the LCOS system we described yesterday, and showed a USB connection using Ultra Wideband to transfer data at nearly 500Mbit/sec. Currently it's short range.

He said there are now more wireless lines than phone lines. In Korea and Taiwan, wireless phones are the norm and have showed staggering growth.

WiMax and other wireless networks including 3G and 4G were developing. He said it means that industries impacted by the digital onslaught, such as the music industries. The next generation in the music industry might be quite different.

He showed off an Intel triband design which uses Xscale and has built in 802.11 and Bluetooth, and a digital camera. That would allow users to download music by phone.

Turning to laptops, he demonstrated a machine using the Florence platform, which uses the Dothan Pentium M, including GPRS, Bluetooth, 802.11b/g, an integrated display on the outside of the case. It also has a biometrics/fingerprint sensor.

[Dead Corpse]

Cooler? Er... no. Thye've just got a better cooling solution. They need it. Trust me on this one.

They do SEEM faster. The Athlon64 and the FX51 can both run more simultaneous threads due to MUCH higher core bandwidth. The intergrated memory controller makes that scalable as well. Over clockers have been DREAMING about a rig like this. Check out Tom's Hardware Guide for what happens when you get spiffy with a liquid cooler for it. Makes the P4 look pitiful.

[Way2Serious]

"Yeah, and there's a guy at Kodak who can tell you just as good a story about why there will always be a market for silver halide film."

Bad example. Kodak, just a month or so ago, was the first big film camera manufacturer to announce a withdrawal from that business to concentrate on the digital camera market. W/r/t their silver halide film operations, I found this:

"In September Kodak unveiled an ambitious new strategy to accelerate its foray into filmless imaging markets. It also acknowledged that chemical-based photography businesses were in irreversible decline."

[biblewonk]

Today I am typing this on an AMD64 with half a terabyte of disk storage and one Gigabyte of RAM storage!

Never thought it would happen!

No kidding. The numbers are unreal. I started out about 15 years ago with a 10 mhz 286 and a 40 mb hd. Now that had wouldn't be enough ram to write a letter to grandma. We've certainly learned to hog every new addition to our resources.

I also remember reading in EETIMES about 15 years ago that 33-50 mhz was the max they would get out of CMOS. Now we are around 3ghz.

[mpreston]

The reason they have to call it IA-32e is because there is a lot more to Opterons than just 64 bit instructions. Intel's architectural direction cannot be changed overnight. Server Opterons use multiple hypertransport buses. The Opteron has also integrated the memory controller to eliminate processor the memory controller latency. On top of that the Opterons efficiency per clock cycle is superior to Intel. That is why Intel has to run at 3+ GHz to match a 2 GHz Opteron. Intel also has a power dissipation problem. So much so that the newer processors aren't certified in the small form factor chassis. Now add on top of that more cells switching for 64 bit "extensions" and it will be even hotter. Opterons also scale out to 4 ways while Intels architecture does not. Intel still has a long ways to go to catch up to AMD. The 64 bit "extensions" are just the first very small step.

As for stocks, INTC spent most of the day negative, ending down 0.4% while AMD was up all day ending up about 2.5%.

Intel and the markets just validated AMD's 64 bit product.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

I'll take a looksee at Toms!

[Dead Corpse]

Here's a shortcut link instead of having to dig for the article I had in mind.

[Dead Corpse]

I think it'd be neat if AMD got a speed bump up when they switch to 90nm die size. It didn't seem to make a difference for Intel. Not an appreciable bump at least.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

nVentiv Prometia Mach II Cooler Unit Bundle

___________________________________________________________________________________

nVentiv Prometia Mach II Cooler Unit Bundle

Quantity in Basket: none
Code: 9290
Price: $1,025.00

Shipping Weight: 43.00 pounds

Select EasyMod CPU Kit:

	AMD EasyMod CPU Kit + $0
	Intel EasyMod CPU Kit + $0
	AMD64 EasyMod CPU Kit + $60

Add LCD Kit:

Quantity:

Description

The most advanced cooling solution available on the market today! With the Prometia Mach II Cooler Unit it is possible to increase CPU performance up to 50%*. The Prometia employs next generation Phase-change technology to achieve high performance cooling under the most demanding thermal loads. The Prometia comes in an attractive casing that is ready to run out of the box. All you need to do is select your choice of the Intel or AMD compatible EasyMod CPU Kit and you will be ready to go!

How does it work? 

The Prometia Cooler Unit uses Phase-Change technology or Vapor Compression Refrigeration to achieve freezing temperatures. The main components include the Evaporator (Copper Cold Plate), Compressor, and Condenser. Heat from the CPU causes liquid refrigerant in the system to be evaporated and carried away to the Condenser via the Compressor. The Condenser then cools the refrigerant back to a liquid which returns to the Evaporator.

Note: The EasyMod CPU Kit has been bundled with the Prometia for your convenience.

*Note: Actual performance increase varies with processor model and make.

Contents

• Prometia Cooler Unit
• EasyMod CPU Kit for Intel, AMD, or AMD64. Includes seal string. (See Options above)
• Optional EasyMod CPU Kit for AMD64 Socket 940/754 available at additional cost. (See Options above)
• LCD Kit (OPTIONAL)

Features

• High Performance Cooling System to achieve sub-zero temperatures! 
• Removes up to 200 Watts to achieve temperatures ranging from -50C to -20C!
• Includes Prometia Cooler Unit and EasyMod CPU Kit.
• The operation of the unit is quiet with minimal noise.
• Eliminates the need to switch CPU regularly to keep in touch with the top of the market.
• The modular design of the "Evaporator"/Cold Plate can be easily upgraded to accommodate the latest processor technology using the appropriate EasyMod CPU Kit. 
• Improved Capabilities of Mach II:
  • Improved Performance: The Mach II is capable of removing up to 200 Watts. With the Mach II, users
    will be operating the most powerful cooling system commercially available!
  • Lower Noise: With the implementation of new fans, the Mach II will have a noise level around 3-4 dB lower than before, at normal operation. In addition, the Mach II is equipped with adjustable fan speed via Windows user interface, which will minimize the noise level even further (low Noise settings).
  • Windows based software interface: The Mach II comes with a new user interface which allows users to monitor as well as change a variety of system parameters. You can change/view settings for: fans, boot temperature, display text, errors, operation log and more…
  • Heat Control: The Chip-controller manages/controls the effect of the heating wires and elements to ensure optimal cooling capacity without risking condensation
  • Condensation Prevention: Capable of handling a humidity of approximately 85% RH.
  • SMD Chip Controller: The new Chip-controller has been specially developed for the Mach II! It handles the entire system operations and performance. Furthermore, the new Chip-controller is programmable and can be upgraded with new firmware

EasyMod CPU Kit (included with Bundle)

Select your choice of the EasyMod Kit for Intel or AMD above. 

Intel EasyMod CPU Kit	AMD EasyMod CPU Kit

AMD64 EasyMod CPU Kit

EasyMod Features

• The EasyMod CPU Kit currently supports:
  •  Intel Socket 478/Pentium 4 (Free of Charge) 
  • AMD Socket A/462 CPUs (AMD Athlon, XP, MP) (Free of Charge)
  • AMD64 Socket 940/754 CPUs (AMD64, FX, Opteron) (at additional cost)
• Kit includes Seal String.
• The EasyMod system ensures that the Micro freezer fits a variety of motherboards for both Intel and AMD Processors. 
• EasyMod for easy mounting! EasyMod is easy to mount and use. The System is assembled almost as quick and easy as a normal heat sink solution.
• The hermetic capsule utilized in the Prometia system avoids water from moisture from entering any part of the capsule and secures a completely safe cold/dry environment for the frozen processor. The outer surface temperature of the MFT and EasyMod kit is at all times kept at a higher temperature than the local dew point of the surrounding ambient air.
• Furthermore, the system inhibits the often overlooked process of water vapour diffusion making the system capable of running in extensive humid operating conditions, without any risk of condensation build-up inside the hermetic cell.

LCD Kit OPTION

The standard nVENTIV Mach II cooling unit is not equipped with a Front LCD display, as this has been made optional. However, all Mach II systems have been made ready for an LCD display, and it can be mounted within minutes.

For those interested in also having system settings displayed on the front panel, nVENTIV offers 2 new displays. The displays are available in 2 ‘text’ colours: Green & Orange. 

Displays temperature, CPU speed, CPU load, etc.The Displays allows you to select your own text or to choose from standard settings.

Specifications
Compatibility	Supports AMD Socket A/462, AMD64 Socket 940/754, and Intel Socket 478 processors.
Cooling Capacity	0 - 200 Watt @ -50 to -20C at 22C ambient temperature
Cooler Unit Dimensions	7.5" x 9.45" x 18.9" ( W x L x H )
Noise Level	31 dbA under normal operation. 39dbA at startup.
Weight	42lbs

Note: For technical support and RMAs please contact nVentiv at www.nventiv.com. No refunds for this product.

Useful Links

• MadShrimp - Article on how to adapt the EasyMod Kit for the AMD 64 FX
• Documentation

Reviews

• Aces Hardware - "Those want the fastest possible system do not have to look any further."
• TomsHardware - "Prometia Mach 2 is the Best Compressor-Driven Cooler, but No THG Speed Record!"

Related Item(s)

Code	Name	Price
9260	Enlight Mid-Tower case for Prometia	$49.95
9273SV	Lian-Li Aluminum Kit for Prometia Cooler Unit	$154.95
9270	BACKORDER Seal String	$24.95

[CyberCowboy777]

SOYO Dragon KT600
XP 2500+ 333FSB
2 Crucial 512MB DDR PC2700 for 1GB
80gig SATA 150MB/S HDD
60gig SATA 150MB/S HDD
ATI Radeon 9700 All-In-Wonder w\128MB
SB Live!
19" Hitachi SuperScan
W2K SP4 w\ Custom Aston Shell

I have not really tried to overclock this setup yet.

[Dead Corpse]

Ouch. $1k for a chiller? I'll gut my spare fridge first. That thing only cost me $200 at a garage sale.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

That is what I thought, I would try the Koolance first I thing, it is only $200 I believe.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Before building my AMD64 3000+ I would have been very happy with your system!

Speed is so nice!

[CyberCowboy777]

drool....

Here is my next "Budget PC" - just as soon as I save the dough.

http://www.ocsystem.net/proddetail.asp?linenumber=9&sku=aSN

or this with the 2MB L2

http://www.ocsystem.net/proddetail.asp?linenumber=2&sku=iOB

[Dead Corpse]

Blllpth... Buy a real machine.... :-)

[Nick Danger]

Kodak invented the photo CD ten years ago.

Yeah, and Intel just announced 64-bit extensions to Xeon. The question is, is the company truly behind it, or is there a sizeable faction that thinks this new-fangled stuff is just a distraction from the main business?

I was at a digital imaging conference about ten years ago. My company had several meetings with the Kodak guys, who were also there. I visited their shop, which was basically an R&D lab. They described a huge amount of internal strife within the company over whether Kodak should get into digital imaging. They of course were for it, because they were from the digital imaging division. And they had the blessing of the CEO to proceed. But they were many people, in powerful positions, at Kodak who insisted that "digital imaging" was a fad, and that Kodak should not be wasting time on it.

My point is that, in that situation, a CEO has to keep those guys happy too, because they are the ones who are paying the bills right now. So even though he might be totally behind the effort to "go digital," he will throw those guys bones, like pouring more money into research on silver halide film, and funding development of still more film-based consumer-grade cameras, even though he knows it's probably a waste of money.

Remember the Apple /// and the Apple ][ GS? Here was Jobs personally heading up the Macintosh effort, his name was practically on the building, and he still let the Apple ][ guys have another couple rounds of fun before squashing that thing.

Big companies always have this problem of competing interests inside. That's why they frequently lose huge amounts of market share (and sometimes all of it) to total upstarts. Why did Barnes and Noble wait as long as they did before reacting to Amazon.com? Because the company was totally dependent at the time on selling books through retail stores, and the store managers saw every book sold through the web as a dollar out of their hides. It's almost certain that there were some in there who warned that "we can't let this guy Bezos achieve escape velocity; if he does, we'll never be able to knock him off." But they did exactly that, and Amazon now has Barnes-and-Noble-class economies of scale. B&N can compete with them, but they can't wipe the floor with them, the way they could have if they had moved quickly.

This is exactly what Intel is going through. AMD is a punk, but if Intel allows it to achieve escape velocity with Opteron and Athlon-64, Intel could lose the server business, and ultimately the desktops as well when cheap machines migrate to 64-bit chips as the prices drop. Intel needs to head this off at the pass. Adding 64-bit addressing to a 32-bit chip tells the market that Intel still doesn't "get it." What they really want to do is fool around with Itanium some more. Well, people have machines to build, and market share to gain, and they can't afford to wait around until Intel gets smart. I'll bet this announcement results in a huge round of design wins for AMD. People have now seen the Intel response. If that was it, it's AMD for sure.

[js1138]

I've built a dozen computers on the last two years, including thre dual-processor servers. All AMD. I read recently that Microsoft will not support two different 64-bit extensions, so I was interested in the part where Intel's will be "mostly" AMD.

It took AMD two years to get the bugs out of the 64-bit Athlon. I understand Adobe has a 64-bit version of CS already in Beta. Personally, every time I price a construction project, AMD is significantly, plus I have never had any trouble with Windows on AMD. The blue screens just don't happen, but they do on Intel machines in the same building.

[CyberCowboy777]

Tight...

I did say budget though, I could easily drop 4k on a nice system.

[Nick Danger]

Bad example. Kodak, just a month or so ago...

You are apparently not understanding my point. Serious students of the imaging business -- including many people within Kodak -- saw this coming a lot sooner than a month ago. They were having this argument inside Kodak in 1991.

I agree it would have made no sense to withdraw from the film, or the film camera, business that early. And no one advocated that. Perhaps "last month" is indeed the correct answer to the question "OK, so when do we shoot the damned things?"

The question is, did the company have the pedal all the way to the metal on the digital stuff? Others sure did. Others didn't have to worry about cannibalizing their film business. They could go for Kodak's jugular with all deliberate speed.

OK, so as of last month, Kodak will now proceed with all deiberate speed into the digital imaging market. About time. Here is a link to consumer-grade digital cameras, sorted by "editor's rating." Kodak first appears on the list at #19. They have none of the "top 5 most popular." Is this the Kodak you remember? Or is this a guy who's been asleep at the switch while the 35mm boys (Canon, Minolta, Nikon, etc.) made the technology switch much faster?

I don't fault Kodak for this, because so many other companies have done the same thing. The minicomputer guys are all dead because in their view, every $5,000 "personal computer" was a lost sale on a $50,000 minicomputer. They might struggle against that, but they sure weren't going to help it along. Until it was too late... and now they're dead.

Every digital camera sold was another nail in the coffin of the film business, which is where Kodak made all their money. How badly did they really want to help that along? We know the answer... they were conflicted about it. So now the film business is doomed, just like everybody knew it would be someday, and they don't own the consumer camera business anymore... they let it slip away with half-hearted efforts.

Well, here's Intel doing the same thing. They know 64-bit chips are the future. And they also know that the one they have out there is not doing very well. In their hearts, they understand perfectly why people would prefer a 64-bit chip that natively executes the huge mountain of 32-bit code that's out there. That's a no-brainer. Until yesterday, they were leaving that whole segment (which is probably 80+ per cent of the market) to AMD. And now they come with a half-hearted hack on the x86 whose chief feature is that it doesn't challenge the Itanium. Wrong answer.

[CyberCowboy777]

Major manufactures are not offering good options on AMD 64s in Server.

That mean major corps putting in Dell (no AMD), Gateway (no AMD) and IBM (one series I think with AMD O and RISC 64-bit), HP (Itanium) are limited to mostly if not completely P4/XEON options.

[mpreston]

The only one not offering AMD is Dell. Gateway bought Emachines so they are again selling AMD based platforms. Sun is ramping up their AMD64 product line and is increasing the channel offering. HP is ready to announce and will force further IBM and Sun Opteron products. Intel is already positioning Itanium to the niche high end / high float point market space, that started today at IDF.