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So are our teachers really overpaid?
Star Newspapers (Chicago) ^ | Sunday, February 8, 2004 | Tom Houlihan

Posted on 02/08/2004 7:20:15 PM PST by Chi-townChief

How much is a job worth?

What should we pay a coal miner, who goes deep into a rock shaft that can come crashing down at any moment? Or a soldier, who is prepared for a deadly combat eventuality at all times?

What should we pay a major league baseball player, whose contribution to this world is that he can hit a rising fastball? Or a Hollywood actor, whose job is too look good while mouthing the words that someone else wrote?

Does a company CEO, who makes tens of millions of dollars a year, work that much harder than the person who cleans the offices all night?

How about teachers? How much should they be paid?

The simple answer, of course, is that we all are paid according to what the market will bear.

Baseball players or movie actors command seven-figure salaries because there is a demand for their ability to entertain us.

The CEO is worth the big bucks because he is the person most associated with the price of a company's stock.

With teachers, though, it is a far trickier proposition. For most teachers, we are talking about public sector employees. Defining "the market" is a lot more complicated when it comes to people who work for a unit of local government.

According to the fine piece of research and writing by my colleague Patrick Ferrell in The Star today, scores of teachers in our South Suburbs are making yearly amounts that are well into the six figures.

An analysis of salaries and add-on payments in 13 south suburban high school districts shows that 275 teachers in our area were paid in excess of $100,000 during the 2002-2003 academic year.

Many of these teachers work in school districts on the state's so-called financial watch list.

The inherent question raised in the stories is "Are these teachers being paid too much?"

Or, at least, are some teachers being overpaid?

And, if so, what should be done about it?

My basic response is that good teachers are worth every penny that they are paid. (You may notice that I qualify this with the word "good" and I'll get back to that later.)

I freely admit that I have some biases when it comes to teachers.

My late wife Kat was a second-grade teacher at Fulton School in Tinley Park. I know how hard she worked — a couple of nights a week she worked late and came home only when the janitor locked the building at 9 p.m. It was what she knew she had to do to make a difference in her students' lives. And it worked.

So if anyone ever talks to me about lazy teachers who don't do anything all day — well, I know better.

Beyond that, I know what my kids have gotten out of their teachers. In grade school, we are talking about people who put in long hours showing small kids how to read and compute. In high school, I see my kids doing college-level work and being genuinely prepared for the world ahead.

I think in particular about my oldest son, who is now a college freshman, and the rigorous, challenging curriculum that his teachers put him through in high school. By the time he graduated last June, he'd learned a lot, and was ready to move ahead.

How do you put a price tag on awakening curiosity? Or showing a young person how to use his or her natural talents? Or sparking their interest in a real love of learning?

Especially during the teen years, when we all make the awesome transformation from children to near-adults.

The importance of high school in our lives never can be discounted. I have this theory that everyone remembers their high school fight song, and I also believe that just about all of us can recall an inspirational high school teacher who made a significant difference in our lives.

Realistically, though, a price tag needs to be put on teacher salaries. All the salaries in today's paper were negotiated according to very specific rules laid down by the state, the courts, school districts and the labor organizations that represent teachers. Teacher salary structures did not happen overnight and are the result of years of back-and-forth negotiations between school officials and unions.

I am not saying this is perfect. I am saying that this is what we have.

It is a system that does not differentiate between a teacher who is outstanding and one who is less than inspirational. If someone wants to come up with a workable plan to reward only the "good" teachers, I'd be more than interested to hear about it.

But if you are really looking for a system that is not perfect, consider the state's funding formula for schools.

The state's share of funding for schools has gone down steadily over the years, which means that more and more reliance is placed on local property taxes. This just about guarantees that more-affluent school districts will receive more funding — which means the market will bear even more in those areas.

You can be sure that teachers in Wilmette and Hinsdale and Naperville are getting top dollar.

Today's "market," unfortunately, means that our children will be competing — first for college placement and later for jobs — with students from those pricier areas.

If they are to succeed, they are going to need competitive schools — and experienced teachers who can help show them the way.

If we try to do this on the cheap, the results are sure to speak for themselves.

Tom Houlihan may be reached at (708) 802-8820. Or you may send e-mail to thoulihan@starnewspapers.com.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: teacherpay
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To: OldEagle
In the area I live they closed down two elementary school increased the class sizes from 20-34, laid-off teachers, and have gave the admin raises. Where is the illness??
21 posted on 02/08/2004 8:00:57 PM PST by Porterville (Traitors against God, country, family, and benefactors lament their sins in the deepest part of hell)
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To: aimhigh
"The simple answer, of course, is that we all are paid according to what the market will bear."
In other words. Blackmail.
22 posted on 02/08/2004 8:01:16 PM PST by eccl1212 ( "anybody else wanna negotiate?")
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To: leprechaun9
Whenever I hear this often posed question, I ask the questioner to define EDUCATION in 25 words or less!

I can do it in one: Everything.
23 posted on 02/08/2004 8:05:54 PM PST by stormer
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To: OldEagle
OldEagle is right. The money problem in education is not in tecaher salaries. If a state is spending $9000 per pupil than an average classroom is averaging $225,000. If the teacher is one of those at the top of the scale making a $100K that still leaves the bulk of school funding be squandered.
24 posted on 02/08/2004 8:07:28 PM PST by azcap
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To: Chi-townChief
The vast majority of teachers obviously dont make $100,000 a year, but most of these "administrators" do. If we would fire half of these administrators and lower the salary on the other half, it would be a good start. That would free up alot of money to give to good teachers that might not be getting what they deserve.
25 posted on 02/08/2004 8:17:05 PM PST by Husker24
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To: Chi-townChief
Most teachers get paid whatever their union bosses can extort regardless of their skills or performance.
26 posted on 02/08/2004 8:28:08 PM PST by Old Professer
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: yioiuo78987
I've been teaching kids morals and values all my life for no pay whatsoever.
28 posted on 02/08/2004 8:37:34 PM PST by Old Professer
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To: BIGZ
Taxpayers who earn over $125,000 are in the top ten percent of taxpayers in the country and are considered the wealthy.

They sure are......... By Democrats like John F. Kerry that married into a $550 million fortune.

29 posted on 02/08/2004 8:45:01 PM PST by Polybius
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To: yioiuo78987
$100 000 for teaching kids morals and values, respect is too much?

No.

However, there is little evidence that most public school teachers teach such things.

30 posted on 02/08/2004 8:49:30 PM PST by Polybius
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To: Polybius
You should volunteer your time at a local school, you'd be surprised how hard the teachers try and are boxed in by the admin. Voulunteer, your point of view will change.
31 posted on 02/08/2004 8:51:04 PM PST by Porterville (Traitors against God, country, family, and benefactors lament their sins in the deepest part of hell)
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To: Chi-townChief
**So are our teachers really overpaid?**

Yes!
32 posted on 02/08/2004 9:02:41 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: leprechaun9
>> EDUCATION in 25 words or less!

Ain't that when you get learned to read, write and cypher?
33 posted on 02/08/2004 9:05:22 PM PST by PattonReincarnated (Rebuild the Temple)
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To: Salvation
My wife, who teaches high school Advanced Placement History and Social Studies and has a Masters Degree and makes a fraction of what this article states would beg to disagree. She's at school from 7 am til usually 5:30 pm, then comes home and grades papers and makes tests 'til she goes to bed around 10 pm. She sponsors two student teams (one of them Scholar's Bowl) that take up many of her weekends. She doesn't complain - she loves the kids and her job and she's damned good at it.
34 posted on 02/08/2004 9:13:12 PM PST by Leroy S. Mort
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To: Porterville
You should volunteer your time at a local school, you'd be surprised how hard the teachers try and are boxed in by the admin. Voulunteer, your point of view will change.

I do more than that.

We have a private non-denominational Christian school in the third floor of our house, taught by one of the best teachers in our County, that gives ten children (including two of our own) a private 7th - 8th Grade education that would otherwise not be available to those kids in our County. I personally finance over half of that teacher's salary, thereby subsidizing the education of the other eight kids.

The kids at our school routinely score in the 90th percentile and above in the Stanford Achievement Test.

In the mean time, our local public schools are teaching to the lowest common denominator.

Whether that is the teacher's fault or the administration's fault, I could care less. The end result is the same and my kids are not spending one day in this County's public schools.

Whatever the reason for their failures, the fact remains that most public schools fail to give their students a decent education. Throwing more money at a flawed system will not change that.

35 posted on 02/08/2004 9:15:01 PM PST by Polybius
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To: John Jorsett
Vouchers.

Of course this is a good idea, but I would prefer to see teachers dump the union and negotiate directly with administration for their salaries. Of course support from the community would help, as would successful scores on standard tests. (Which I am also in favor of.)

The best thing about vouchers is that they might break the teachers union. (Which is the most evil institution in our country today.) Former teacher.

36 posted on 02/08/2004 9:16:07 PM PST by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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To: Polybius
That's great; why don't you volunteer your time or money to the public schools?? Oh, I forgot, you "could care less." That's very big of you....(((Squeak!!!)))
37 posted on 02/08/2004 9:21:19 PM PST by Porterville (Traitors against God, country, family, and benefactors lament their sins in the deepest part of hell)
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To: All
LOL!!
I teach high school, and without giving too many details away, how often does the government under pay for anything?
38 posted on 02/08/2004 9:32:30 PM PST by genghis
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To: Chi-townChief; Husker24
Depends on where you are. Here in my upstate NY community starting pay is in mid 30's, highest paid teacher in mid 60's and average in the mid 40's. Gotta watch statistics. Our average was higher before a few years in which there were many retirees. If beginners are hired, your "average" drops like a rock. More instructive to look at median salaries.

The admins (other than Superintendent) are paid between mid 50's and mid 80's. It's tough to get rid of the admins. if there is no reduction in regulation. You don't want your teachers dealing with Board of Ed. requirements, asbestos removal, defibrillation device regulations, state aid reports, school buses and food service, public budget votes, building construction and maintenance, compliance issues, labor-management issues and excessive regulations instead of teaching the students.
39 posted on 02/08/2004 9:51:15 PM PST by ntnychik
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To: Porterville
That's great; why don't you volunteer your time or money to the public schools?? Oh, I forgot, you "could care less." That's very big of you....(((Squeak!!!)))

I said that I could care less "whether the failure of the public school system is the teacher's fault or the administration's fault". Failure is failure and excuses won't change that.

That is what I don't care about: Your excuses for the failure of public schools.

As I said, I am now subsidizing a top-notch education for 8 kids that are not even my own kids.

I'm producing results. What are you doing now to show your "caring" besides making excuses for the failure of the public school sysatem?

As for "donating time", I have a medical practice where I am at work before public schools open and I come home long after public schools close. I am at the hospital six days out of seven.

By your profile, I see that you are currently unemployed.

If I were unemployed as you are, I would have time to "volunteer" too. However, any such volunteering would be for our school and not the Government-run school that you admit fail because of being "boxed in by their Administration".

As it is, I volunteer money to a private school that produces results. Time is money and money is time. (Unless you are unemployed in which case time and money are not correlated with each other at all.)

As to "volunteering my money" to public schools, I pay over $100,000 per year in taxes, year after year, so I am quite certain that I have contributed more money to Government-run schools than you will ever contribute in your entire life and your next two or three lifetimes even if the Almighty decides to re-incarnate you.

You claim that public schools fail "because of the Adminstration" and then you want the rest of us to sacrifice our kids, our time and our money left over after taxes to that failed system.

No thanks.

I already finance the Government-run schools at a level you will never equal. With whatever money the Government does not tax, I prefer to finance an educational system that actually delivers a quality education.

40 posted on 02/08/2004 10:32:49 PM PST by Polybius
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