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So are our teachers really overpaid?
Star Newspapers (Chicago) ^ | Sunday, February 8, 2004 | Tom Houlihan

Posted on 02/08/2004 7:20:15 PM PST by Chi-townChief

How much is a job worth?

What should we pay a coal miner, who goes deep into a rock shaft that can come crashing down at any moment? Or a soldier, who is prepared for a deadly combat eventuality at all times?

What should we pay a major league baseball player, whose contribution to this world is that he can hit a rising fastball? Or a Hollywood actor, whose job is too look good while mouthing the words that someone else wrote?

Does a company CEO, who makes tens of millions of dollars a year, work that much harder than the person who cleans the offices all night?

How about teachers? How much should they be paid?

The simple answer, of course, is that we all are paid according to what the market will bear.

Baseball players or movie actors command seven-figure salaries because there is a demand for their ability to entertain us.

The CEO is worth the big bucks because he is the person most associated with the price of a company's stock.

With teachers, though, it is a far trickier proposition. For most teachers, we are talking about public sector employees. Defining "the market" is a lot more complicated when it comes to people who work for a unit of local government.

According to the fine piece of research and writing by my colleague Patrick Ferrell in The Star today, scores of teachers in our South Suburbs are making yearly amounts that are well into the six figures.

An analysis of salaries and add-on payments in 13 south suburban high school districts shows that 275 teachers in our area were paid in excess of $100,000 during the 2002-2003 academic year.

Many of these teachers work in school districts on the state's so-called financial watch list.

The inherent question raised in the stories is "Are these teachers being paid too much?"

Or, at least, are some teachers being overpaid?

And, if so, what should be done about it?

My basic response is that good teachers are worth every penny that they are paid. (You may notice that I qualify this with the word "good" and I'll get back to that later.)

I freely admit that I have some biases when it comes to teachers.

My late wife Kat was a second-grade teacher at Fulton School in Tinley Park. I know how hard she worked — a couple of nights a week she worked late and came home only when the janitor locked the building at 9 p.m. It was what she knew she had to do to make a difference in her students' lives. And it worked.

So if anyone ever talks to me about lazy teachers who don't do anything all day — well, I know better.

Beyond that, I know what my kids have gotten out of their teachers. In grade school, we are talking about people who put in long hours showing small kids how to read and compute. In high school, I see my kids doing college-level work and being genuinely prepared for the world ahead.

I think in particular about my oldest son, who is now a college freshman, and the rigorous, challenging curriculum that his teachers put him through in high school. By the time he graduated last June, he'd learned a lot, and was ready to move ahead.

How do you put a price tag on awakening curiosity? Or showing a young person how to use his or her natural talents? Or sparking their interest in a real love of learning?

Especially during the teen years, when we all make the awesome transformation from children to near-adults.

The importance of high school in our lives never can be discounted. I have this theory that everyone remembers their high school fight song, and I also believe that just about all of us can recall an inspirational high school teacher who made a significant difference in our lives.

Realistically, though, a price tag needs to be put on teacher salaries. All the salaries in today's paper were negotiated according to very specific rules laid down by the state, the courts, school districts and the labor organizations that represent teachers. Teacher salary structures did not happen overnight and are the result of years of back-and-forth negotiations between school officials and unions.

I am not saying this is perfect. I am saying that this is what we have.

It is a system that does not differentiate between a teacher who is outstanding and one who is less than inspirational. If someone wants to come up with a workable plan to reward only the "good" teachers, I'd be more than interested to hear about it.

But if you are really looking for a system that is not perfect, consider the state's funding formula for schools.

The state's share of funding for schools has gone down steadily over the years, which means that more and more reliance is placed on local property taxes. This just about guarantees that more-affluent school districts will receive more funding — which means the market will bear even more in those areas.

You can be sure that teachers in Wilmette and Hinsdale and Naperville are getting top dollar.

Today's "market," unfortunately, means that our children will be competing — first for college placement and later for jobs — with students from those pricier areas.

If they are to succeed, they are going to need competitive schools — and experienced teachers who can help show them the way.

If we try to do this on the cheap, the results are sure to speak for themselves.

Tom Houlihan may be reached at (708) 802-8820. Or you may send e-mail to thoulihan@starnewspapers.com.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: teacherpay
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"An analysis of salaries and add-on payments in 13 south suburban high school districts shows that 275 teachers in our area were paid in excess of $100,000 during the 2002-2003 academic year."

YEOWWW!! Nothing against teachers but, as they say, maybe we're in the wrong business.
1 posted on 02/08/2004 7:20:17 PM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: AbsoluteJustice; Barnacle; BeAllYouCanBe; BillyBoy; cfrels; cherry_bomb88; chicagolady; ...
CHICAGOLAND PING
2 posted on 02/08/2004 7:21:02 PM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: Chi-townChief
Public Sector employment is nowhere near the charity is used to be. In my area NY metro area, Cops, Teachers, Public Sector employees make a killing and do not work that hard. They talk mostly about pensions, days off, overtime, sick time, family medical leave, accumulated vacation days, etc. Being a self employed person, it makes me want to vomit.
3 posted on 02/08/2004 7:26:28 PM PST by chris1
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To: Chi-townChief
Whenever I hear this often posed question, I ask the questioner to define EDUCATION in 25 words or less!

I invite all to participate!
4 posted on 02/08/2004 7:26:39 PM PST by leprechaun9 (Beware of little expenses because a small leak will sink a great ship!)
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To: Chi-townChief
Salaries, by teacher and district, are available for Illinois public schools at thechampion.org.

Michael M. Bates: My Side of the Swamp

5 posted on 02/08/2004 7:27:35 PM PST by mikeb704
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To: Chi-townChief
It is a system that does not differentiate between a teacher who is outstanding and one who is less than inspirational. If someone wants to come up with a workable plan to reward only the "good" teachers, I'd be more than interested to hear about it.

Vouchers. If a teacher stinks, the parents will pressure the school to get a better one, or will yank their kids out and take them to a different school. The "good" teachers will be rewarded with higher salaries and the "bad" ones will be paid less or shown the door.

6 posted on 02/08/2004 7:28:11 PM PST by John Jorsett
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To: Chi-townChief
It is a system that does not differentiate between a teacher who is outstanding and one who is less than inspirational. If someone wants to come up with a workable plan to reward only the "good" teachers, I'd be more than interested to hear about it.

Vouchers. If a teacher stinks, the parents will pressure the school to get a better one, or will yank their kids out and take them to a different school. The "good" teachers will be rewarded with higher salaries and the "bad" ones will be paid less or shown the door.

7 posted on 02/08/2004 7:28:11 PM PST by John Jorsett
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To: leprechaun9
1. The act or process of educating or being educated.

2. The knowledge or skill obtained or developed by a learning process.

3. A program of instruction of a specified kind or level: driver education; a college education.

4. The field of study that is concerned with the pedagogy of teaching and learning.

5. An instructive or enlightening experience: Her work in the inner city was a real education.

Wasn't that hard. (thanks to dictionary.com)

8 posted on 02/08/2004 7:29:41 PM PST by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along)
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To: Chi-townChief
I live in Schaumburg, and our high school district is apparently the most highly paid in the state averaging about $80,000.

And I really don't mind this. We have had nothing but good experiences with our two sons, and the teachers were always willing to come in early and stay late to make sure they understood the material.

I might feel differently if it was not for my experiences, but I feel they are well worth it.
9 posted on 02/08/2004 7:33:09 PM PST by RWR8189 (Its Morning in America Again!)
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To: Chi-townChief
An analysis of salaries and add-on payments in 13 south suburban high school districts shows that 275 teachers in our area were paid in excess of $100,000 during the 2002-2003 academic year.

And I make a quarter of that now, and my salary (after 30 years of service) will be capped at less than half of that. This with a MA.

Not that I'm complaining, because I turned down jobs offering a lot more in order to teach (I could have had several jobs in IT). But what you are seeing here is the influence of the unions on teaching. The jerk-off who has molded at his desk for 25 years makes lots of cash, while those of us who give a damn make far less simply because we haven't been a teacher as long. If you want to reform teacher salaries, make every state a Right-to-Work state and get rid of seniority-based pay scales.

Teaching is either the hardest or easiest job in the world... depending on whether or not you care...

10 posted on 02/08/2004 7:35:41 PM PST by Charles H. (The_r0nin) (Still teaching...or a reasonable facsimile thereof...)
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To: Chi-townChief
Consider that nowadays, thanks to globalism, offshoring and outsourcing, that a person with an electrical engineering degree is considered to be worth $10k a year, then yes, I would say that teachers are very overpaid.

Let's start using H1-b and L1-b workers to teach at public schools, and then we could reduce property taxes for all of us who pay for the public schools.

Fair's fair, right? What's good for hi-tech is certainly good for public education.
11 posted on 02/08/2004 7:37:32 PM PST by Elliott Jackalope (We send our kids to Iraq to fight for them, and they send our jobs to India. Now THAT'S gratitude!)
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To: Chi-townChief
That is an extreme. Right now I am working on my student teaching, volunteering 17 1/2 hours per week... I'll probably get paid about 45-60 g's when I land my first salaried job. I have a lot of degrees, but I can't teach without a cert.
12 posted on 02/08/2004 7:37:58 PM PST by Porterville (Traitors against God, country, family, and benefactors lament their sins in the deepest part of hell)
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To: Chi-townChief
The simple answer, of course, is that we all are paid according to what the market will bear.

Hogwash. When it comes to government elected officials, confiscatory taxes, and teachers unions, the market is not a part of the equation.

13 posted on 02/08/2004 7:40:51 PM PST by aimhigh
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To: aimhigh
Do you have any idea how hard it is to become a teacher these days??? Look into it.
14 posted on 02/08/2004 7:43:30 PM PST by Porterville (Traitors against God, country, family, and benefactors lament their sins in the deepest part of hell)
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To: Charles H. (The_r0nin)
Teaching is either the hardest or easiest job in the world... depending on whether or not you care...

I agree with this. I have several relatives who teach. Those who care put in long days, make sure they know each child well and go beyond the classroom to help, spend their own money and time when needed.

My sister-in-law, however, is a principal's worst nightmare. She is a union loudmouth, demanding this and that. She can't spell at all. She does very little.

She uses sick leave constantly. They can't fire her because she's got tenure and they are afraid of her. Her school sees new principals every couple of years, I'm sure because she makes their lives miserable.

They keep trying to move her to jobs she hates to get rid of her, but since she's "sick" all the time and doesn't really care, it doesn't do any good. I'm sure she pulls in a good salary, too.

15 posted on 02/08/2004 7:45:01 PM PST by jwalburg (We CAN Question their Patriotism!)
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To: Chi-townChief
YEOWWW!! Nothing against teachers but, as they say, maybe we're in the wrong business.

If you're in a wealthier suburb, sure. Go further south in the state and you'll change your mind.

16 posted on 02/08/2004 7:47:43 PM PST by Ophiucus
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To: aimhigh
When it comes to government elected officials, confiscatory taxes, and teachers unions, the market is not a part of the equation.

And there is no penalty for not being one of the "good" teachers the article mentioned. Salary increases are based on credits/degrees received and time served.

17 posted on 02/08/2004 7:51:38 PM PST by Mannaggia l'America
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To: Chi-townChief
The problem with the high cost of public education is not the cost of teachers. It is the cost of administrators who add nothing to the quality of classroom education.
18 posted on 02/08/2004 7:53:14 PM PST by OldEagle (Haven't been wrong since 1947.)
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To: Chi-townChief
Taxpayers who earn over $125,000 are in the top ten percent of taxpayers in the country and are considered the wealthy. The top ten percent of taxpyers pay over 50% of all taxes. I have heard no politician explain how we can have teachers that are almost wealthy.

Can't be, not possible, I have heard Kerry and the rest speak about teachers. Teachers do not belong to the privleged class as Kerry would say but since he has come up the hard way and groveled with the rest of us he should know.

19 posted on 02/08/2004 7:53:51 PM PST by BIGZ
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To: Chi-townChief
PS to my last post.

Most teachers can opt out of Social Security and put their retirement plan in a PRIVATE SYSTEM, how much is that worth and it defered income until they retire.

Why can't I put my money into a PRIVATE PLAN?

20 posted on 02/08/2004 7:58:35 PM PST by BIGZ
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