Girl says 'hell' in school, suspended (2nd Grader)

AP | 2/04/04 | DAN NEPHIN

[kattracks]

PITTSBURGH (AP) — A second-grader was suspended for a day for telling a classmate he would go to hell for saying, "I swear to God."

Brandy McKenith, 7, was suspended for swearing for saying the word "hell," but her family says she was referring to the biblical location of fire and brimstone.

She served the suspension Tuesday.

The Pittsburgh Public Schools' student code of conduct prohibits profanity, but doesn't provide a definition, spokeswoman Pat Crawford said. The school would not comment further.

Brandy's father, Wayne McKenith, said when he learned about the suspension, he thought perhaps his daughter had said something worse, so he called the teacher for details. He was told another student overheard his daughter say the word.

"I said, `Hell? She got suspended for that?'" McKenith said.

He said he asked the school to evaluate its profanity policy.

"`Hell' is like the least of the words in school today," McKenith said. "You go home and turn on the TV tonight and tell me how many times you hear the word 'hell.' And I mean network TV, not even cable."

Without a clear definition, the district could run into problems enforcing the policy, said Witold Walczak, legal director of the Greater Pittsburgh chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union.

"The school's policy says 'no profanity' and that's not further defined," Walczak said. "How should this little girl know that `hell' is not allowed?"

"It's questionable whether `hell' is even a profanity, and it certainly isn't in the way that she used it," he added.

McKenith, a suburban Pittsburgh police detective, said family members aren't "religious fanatics," but there's a healthy respect for the Lord, so he accepts her daughter's explanation.

"She's under the assumption that good people go to heaven and ... bad people go to hell," he said Wednesday.

[biblewonk]

Then your church is not organized religion, it is , rather a social gathering of souls with the same mind set. Organized religion is much like the Lutherans, Baptist, Catholics, etc. They organize, have schools that teach their particular sect and don't dare deviate unless someone higher up says it is ok. Much like the Taliban or the Shiite muslims. Granted, the Christian organized religion isn't hateful like some other religions are, but that has only been in the last 175 years, does anyone remember the inquisition?It was only in 1834 that the Vatican officialy rejected torture to convert heterics.

So your definition of "organized" seems to be that it be part of a large denomination. Therefore any non-denominational, independant church is in play. Can I assume you are going to one of those in your town since you sort of imply that you are a Christian in your original statement.

[T.Smith]

let=lest

[weegee]

Have to wonder if the school would have raised a different stink if she had used the word "Hades" instead?

[weegee]

...but what I do have a problem with is when authority figures preach any of their mystic beliefs to my children.

Well this is a part of the whole "socializing with other children" experience. Interacting with people with other cultures, other faiths, other ideas.

[eastforker]

No, you can not assume that.

[newgeezer]

judge not lest ye be judged

That's what I expected. (People love to wax all King-James-ey when throwing that verse judgmentally into someone else's face. :-)

Well, maybe the Old English is inhibiting understanding. Because, think about what it says. "Don't judge others, unless you're willing to be judged yourself." Clearly, it doesn't stop with, "Judge not"; it goes further. In fact, there are many places we're told to judge others. ("By their fruit, ye shall know them," for one.)

Here's that commonly misapplied verse in context:

Matthew 7
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Don't judge others using a higher standard than that to which you would have yourself be judged.

[weegee]

Does that preclude serving on a jury or a man being positioned as a judge for the enforcement of "man's" laws?

[biblewonk]

The bible says not to forsake the gathering of yourselves together, as is the manner of some... If you are a Christian, though you have every right to be disgusted with much of denominationalism, you are still out of line by ditching the whole "Church".

[azhenfud]

1 Corinthians Ch.6 Vv. 1-8
Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another.
Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

Christians are commanded to use judgement and discern between right and wrong and to understand the consequences of doing wrong. Many have used the scripture you quote as a cop-out on calling right, right and wrong, wrong. It's the same temptation Jesus received from Satan in the wilderness. Satan tried to use scripture (out of its context) to justify his own end....

[eastforker]

Oh, and I never implied I was a Christian. I did not imply anything.

[Pokey78]

I was accused of calling someone an S.O.B. when I was in the 2nd grade.

I was sent to the headmaster's office and given a choice of the paddle or writing down on paper Psalms 19:14 (Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.) 10 times.

I chose the latter.

[biblewonk]

That is exactly why I turned away from any organized form of religion.

Wrong, this statement implies many things.

[eastforker]

And just what church might that be.

[azhenfud]

"Don't judge others using a higher standard than that to which you would have yourself be judged."

Exactly! Well stated...

[weegee]

There are plenty of kids who reject their parents' faiths as well as reflecting their political ideology (which in some faiths IS a religion). Some of that will come from teenage rebellion as kids try to develop their own identity.

[eastforker]

It only implies I turned away from organized religion, nothing less and nothing more.

[Exit148]

I wonder if the profanity policy includes the Teacher's Room.

[been called a cynic]

“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you” (Luke 6:37-38).