Job Cuts Top 100,000 in January - Report

Reuters ^ | Tuesday February 3, 2004

[templar]

I would also consider it really does not matter who draws up a contract, as long as a Bar member reads it signs off on it

More often than not that 200 buck an hour attorney you think is preparing your contract has a 15 or 20 buck an hour paralegal or secretary write it up and just reviews it (and corrects if it he thinks nescessary). Now, they'll get a 3 buck an hour offshored para to do it: I'm sure they'll reduce their fees accordingly.

Note: I'm not criticizing the way it is done now, just commenting on it. The system works the way it works.

[MARTIAL MONK]

No. That is how an unskilled young man with no money can get a start in his own business. If he shows some hussle and basic business sense the doors will open.

[FITZ]

that utopianistic dreams of never having job-holes on your resume

To me that's not utopianistic --- I have no job holes at all in mine ---- and it's not exactly a new resume. I worked full time going through college, I've always had one job, most of the time two. But I can't imagine how devastating it must be for those who had it similar --- and now find themselves out of work with very little prospects. 14,000 people in this town I'm near lost their jobs with NAFTA ---- a large portion were over 40 and haven't worked in years now. Those that are working saw their incomes drop from $8 to $10 an hour down to $5.15. To me that's just not a good situation --- not good for our society. One out of three jobs here pays exactly minimum wage, one out of three pays over $10 an hour. The government makes up the difference --- many working people have food stamps, CHIP, WIC, housing assistance, free tuition, etc etc. To me it seemed better with less government, higher wages the workers could live off.

[EverOnward]

I'd rather force the Japanese and Chinese to open up their economies from protectionism rather than worrying about the jobs lossed by transfer.

How are you gonig to do that? Very strange that we're open to countries that are protectionist and refuse to demand an equal playing field -- but that wouldn't be beneficial to your foreign investors now would it?

[EverOnward]

re your post #22 -- The meeeeeeeeeeees Bush is taking care of are his rich friends (both foriegn and domestic).

[Walkin Man]

And when we are structured that way socio-economically, and toss in the demographics shifts we all know are happening, the Democrats will have a permanent majority at all levels of government.

You sir are a prophet. Thats how it will end up, I have no doubt.

The Republicans could do something about it but of course they won't. And the Rat party will at least claim to do something about it, so....

[EverOnward]

"They will create new careers."

Care to share with us what those new careers could possibly be? The newest careers I'm aware of are the companies making money outsourcing. Very lucrative. Lawyers are making good money helping foreigners obtain visas. Cheap labor -- find a way to get it and make money.

[optik_b]

"That is an oxymoron. Corporations are chartered creations of a state. Their only existance is in the framework of laws, a nation's laws, that allow them to exist."

It's not an oxymoron at all. Multinationals Corporations (MNCs) depend on the state for the enforcement of laws and their charter. There is no requirement in those laws that MNCs employ people in a particular country, in fact the only people they are loyal to is the shareholder. An MNC can be listed in different stock exchanges or can move offshore if that is what is best for shareholder return. Right now there is no entity which can enforce laws internationally on MNCs. This is why it is beneficial for MNCs to operate out of areas such as China where there are no minimum wage or enviromental restrictions and there is a plentiful supply of cheap labor.

"It is true that corporations operate subsidaries and contracted partnerships and such contractual relationships in other nations, and that foreigners and foreign corporations may own US corporations. Yet every domestic corporation and foreign corporation operating in various states of the US is totally subject, subservient, to Federal regulations and State regulations and charters."

LOL you believe the laws of the US apply to companies when they operate in other places? I suppose you think people in China have OSHA laws or that the chemical factories in India are worried about environmental pollution? Evidently you believe that US laws apply when Exxon

What are you proposing? It sounds communist since you seem to be suggesting that free enterprise and international corporate entities should not be free to operate. The fact of the matter the greatest growth and wealth the world has ever seen has coincided with the rise of MNCs. Just because some white collar workers can't compete in the global economy all of a sudden capitalism is a bad idea. Competition is not destructive, competition is what has lead us to be the most prosperous people in human history.

[optik_b]

"The wage gap between the US and the rest of the world is less today than it was 30 years ago, yet firms werent moving to places like India 30 years ago. "

Now it is inexepensive to communicate from India to the USA thanks to the internet and technologies like Voice over IP.

[M. Thatcher]

If you don't like what I have to say, refute it with some facts or get lost.

Refute WHAT with facts? Your retardo assertion that America is becoming a third-world nation?

That is possibly the single most ludicrous assertion I have read on this forum (and check my sign up date; I have read tons of 'em).

Your ignorance of what constitutes a first-, second-, or third-world nation is staggering.

[CMAC51]

"No job created" -- well in truth none was. However I believe they would get counted in a jobs growth count as the company that hired the person would report a growth in headcount.

Actually of the three figures used to report job growth, this job would only show up in one, the one least used "Household Employment". The Employer surveys do not typically capture contract labor jobs because the the contract laborer is either self employed or employed by a service firm not involved in the Employer survey.

[Lily4Jesus]

right on Rokke!!!

[raloxk]

"Now it is inexepensive to communicate from India to the USA thanks to the internet and technologies like Voice over IP."

in a way that is my point, it isnt just cheap wages that are the reason for offshoring.

By the way we do it here. All those German and Japanese factories in the US mean tens of thousands of lost jobs for those countries.


American Airlines use to to all pricing and revenue management for Canadian Airlines resulting in jobs lost from Canada.


A recent study, I forget by whom, showed offshoring companies failed to realise most of the cost savings they expected.

[Alberta's Child]

I've got news for you. That "two-tiered" economic system you described (actually, three-tiered) is exactly what we've got right now. And you know what? It's what we've had for a very long time in this country, too.

It isn't such a bad thing, either -- especially when you consider that the lowest tier enjoys a standard of living that is better than anyone in the history of mankind, with the exception of those in Tiers #1 and #2.

[bvw]

It's hard to respond. I might suggest that you learn how to read. But clearly you can read. And laugh. Laughing at your own mis-understanding, I'd say.

In that, you must be quite the jolly fellow -- laughing all the time for all the material you supply yourself.

---

Let me start very simply then.

A step or two at a time.

One. To do business as a corporation in a state of the US, most (if not all) states require the corporation to register. It must register as a foreign corporation or as a corporation chartered in the state.

Two. The corporation, operating in a state of the US, must follow the general regulations of that state.

Can you please repeat those two points to me, in your own words, so we may see if there is any gain to moving on to points three, four, five and further?

[Alberta's Child]

. . . give tax breaks to companies that employ in the US.

OK. Let's start right off the bat by eliminating all payroll taxes -- NOW. You want Social Security and Medicare? Great -- then YOU pay both the employee and employer parts of those payroll taxes.

A simple move like this would go a long way toward keeping jobs here in the United States. I don't know how many people on this thread are -- or ever have been -- in a position to hire employees. I am, and I'm going to tell you something . . . Hiring employees in this country is an enormous pain in the @ss, and it has nothing to do with how much my company has to pay them.

[optik_b]

"if current trends continue for another 10-15 years, we will be a two tiered socio-economic society. we'll have wealthy elites with their super bowl tickets, plasma TVs, Mercedes Benz (record sales for 2003 by the way), country club memberships, et al. We'll have a middle class made up of mostly government workers and workers in "subsidaries" of government like health care, education, and law. And we'll have the working poor filling service jobs. "

LOL What do you mean in 10 to 15 years!? We've already had a two tiered society for a while now. What's going on now is just a sifting.

[Alberta's Child]

Do you realize how low the dollar would have to go to make wages comparable?

Yes, I do. And that's exactly why all the complaints about this country declining to "Third World status" are a lot of crap -- because the strength of our currency (as you pointed out) says the exact opposite is true.

[oceanview]

give me a break, we have a solid private sector middle class now to go along with the public sector component of the middle class. and we've always had upward mobility from the lower tier, which is the key to giving large cross sections of people a sense of hope and participation in the economy, rather then just telling them that "statistically" their standard of living is fine and they should shutup and be happy with their $39 chinese made DVD player. our society is changing.

[optik_b]

"Yes, I do. And that's exactly why all the complaints about this country declining to "Third World status" are a lot of crap -- because the strength of our currency (as you pointed out) says the exact opposite is true"

Hey if we get into a few more wars, and start a few more giant entitlement programs...and the millions of illegals continue to swarm our citiess....all of which balloons our deficit and national debt to unheard of levels in history and that certainly takes us in the third world direction.