[aruanan]

Posting VOLUMES of material 'claiming' discoveries means nothing; either show us the beef and let experiments be 'performed' by legitimate scientists and researchers with *real* lab-equipment or risk being labeled a perennial crackpot - to date, this has not happened.

If you read the history of scientific progress, _Jim, you'd show a bit more humility. Your definition of "legitimate scientist" and "real lab-equipment [sic]" wouldn't happen to be "a scientist whose results fail to give support to such a notion" and "equipment such a scientist uses to obtain null results"?

Remember that from the time that dynamos were first invented (Faraday, 1831) to the time when they became more than 50% efficient (Edison, late 1870's) was almost 50 years. But it took only about half that time for scientific opinion to have taken what was then observed on state-of-the-art equipment and sclerosed it into the immutability of natural law. Edison said that he was going to make a dynamo with an efficiency that was greater than 90%. The rest of the scientific world said that anything greater than 50% was against the laws of nature.

[_Jim]

if you read the history of scientific progress, _Jim, you'd show a bit more humility.

BEEN THERE, DONE THAT.

Gimme the principle these magical 'devices' work on - and you *might* have some credibility in this discussion.

Lacking that, or a working 'over-unity' device, you're just passing air/throwing letters on the screen ...

CRIPES, these crackpots HAVEN'T EVEN proposed their 'theories' by which their devices work ... wait a minute - SOME HAVE - and their methodology was DEEP DEEP DEEPLY FLAWED - as in, they couldn't perform basic measurements correctly or couldn't do the mathLEADING THEM to incorrect deductions and more BAD SCIENCE.

Those LAWS of nature of which I speak DIDN'T HAPPEN the first time out - it took ITERATION after ITERATION and centuries to FINALLY *prove out* the 'correct' theories.

TO DATE, the same HAS NOT OCURRED with these so-called 'over-unity' black-magic devices.

For you to continue to argue further requires that you effectively turn your back on tons of work that has been done by thousands and thousands of mathematicians, scientists, engineers, chemists and physicists.

DO YOU NOT THINK that some easier means of extracting energy from 'matter' would have been proposed by now? The 'splitting of the atom' and the release of tons of energy was predicted (hypothesized) long before it was done, and IT WAS DONE BUILT UPON THE PREVIOUS SCIENTIFIC WORK OF OTHERS.

THIS last point - I don't think YOU and the 'free energy' crowd get, comprehend OR understand.

To you guys, it's like 'the world' was created yesterday and NOBODY knows NOTHING about the way it works ...