Soviet Army fought UFOs

Pravda ^ | 1.23.04 | Alexander Dremin

[mhking]

Soviet military encountered many UFOs, maybe for this reason in the end of the 60s a secret laboratory of researching "flying objects" was created in the USSR.

UFO researchers often blame the military of hiding the cases of alien rockets and disseminating false information of UFO. Army officers are not interested in the disputes about alien civilizations, they are interested in knowing what impact UFO can impose to military equipment and personnel.

1947. Antiaircraft guns of Transcaucasian Military District fired on the flying cigar-shaped object which came from the side of the Turkish border. The object"s flying altitude was below 4,000 meters, and the guns were capable of reaching a target at the altitudes up to 12,000 meters, but that time the fire made no harm to the "cigar". Then the cigar increased its speed and flew away over the mountains.

This incident could cause much trouble, because earlier the border guards and military ships monitoring service missed this target. Then the military was unable to trace this flying object over the country"s territory. The Border District command ignored and ordered the monitors not to disclose the information that the object reached a speed up to 2000 kilometers per hour.

Similar case took place in 1984 in Turkestan Military District. Near the city of Astrakhan air-defense system marked the ball-shaped object flying at the altitude of 2000 meters along the Caspian seashore in the direction of the state border. The object did not respond to the inquiry made by the military on the radio. Two fighter-planes took off, but they were unable to bring the object down. After being under fire, the object descended up to 100 meters, and at this low altitude the planes were unable to continue firing. Despite being fired at, the object was having a regular speed. The ball passed over several military units, which allowed to make its photo. Near the city of Krasnoyarsk the military tried to bring the object down with the helicopter.

However, it quickly increased its altitude so that the helicopter could not reach it. After firing all its supply of shells, the helicopter landed, and the ball abruptly flew in the direction of the sea and disappeared from the radar screens.

In the same area the similar scenario case happened later. The object having the shape of cylinder demonstrated its invulnerability.>

Such a demonstration could be the purpose of its flight, because this UFO was having a speed of 100 kilometers per hour.

One can blame the military of inhuman actions on bringing down flying objects. But what can they do if the object was moving in the direction of the state border and they had the order to destroy such objects?

In 1985 near the town of Krasnovodsk the radar station under the command of Captain Valuev registered the disc-shaped object in size of 1,000 meters! The object was immovable, and some time later a small disc in size of 5 meters flew out of it and then landed on Krasnovodskaya spit. Patrol boats rushed to that area, but when they reached the distance of 100 meters from the object, it took off and flew one kilometer away. This happened five times. Then the object flew up at a huge speed, reached the bigger disc, which finally flew away spaceward.

In the end of the 60s a secret laboratory of researching "flying objects" was created in the USSR. Among the laboratory"s tasks was researching anti-gravitation, but the research results were made secret. Its testing area was near the town of Kapustin Yar on purpose. In the end of June of 1971 the military could see over this area a black cigar-shaped flying object floating under the clouds at the altitude of 800 meters. The object was 25 meters long and had about 3 meters in diameter. It had neither stabilizers nor wings nor engines and was moving at the speed of 150 kilometers per hour producing no noise.

In 1978 ЦНДС Soviet Ministry of Defense accepted Network MO program. Special military unit in the town of Mytishi was in charge of collecting data, and newly established "space troops" were designated to fight possible threat from space.

In the beginning of August 1987 five soldiers of Leningrad Military District went to the North of Karelia region on a special mission. They were required to guard the object of unknown origin. It was found on the territory of another military unit near the town of Vyborg. The item was 14 meters long, 4 meters wide, 2.5 meters high. The object had neither doors no hatches, and all attempts to open its hull were unsuccessful. The military tried to break off some object parts, but were only able to take some rods from its stern. In the end of September the object disappeared from the hangar without leaving a trace.

[Quix]

BTW, as my own relative asserted . . .

some of the corporate biggies as you describe them . . .

(I think Greer even names some corporate biggies involved in such technologies).

have been using such energy technologies to power the UFO type craft THEY have been building for decades--at least 30 years.

[Quix]

I should say my relative alluded to more than asserted plainly.

[Capitalist Eric]

Pravda used to be the New York Times of Russia. Now, it's worse than Weekly World News. Of course, the accuracy has remained the same, but Pravda today can't even pretend to be taken seriously.

Sorry, but I disagree. Russians have never taken Pravda seriously...

An old expression, "B Pradva ne pravde."
translation: In Truth, there is no truth.

[endthematrix]

FOBS, or "Fractional Orbit Bombardment System"
FOBS entries (which the Soviet government denies ever took place) as "flying saucers"? It is easy to see that official Soviet censors would have initially welcomed the public misidentification of the FOBS entries. After all, officially, space systems such as the FOBS were illegal and hence the USSR would never test them. In fact, since the FOBS system was readily recognized in the West as an orbital H-bomb carrier best suited for nuclear sneak attack, the less the world knew about it, the better for Moscow's public peace posturing -- especially following the writing of a 1967 treaty outlawing the placement of H-bombs in orbit (which is exactly what the FOBS was designed to do). Despite the fact that Moscow sanctimoniously signed the treaty later that year, it continued to test FOBS vehicles (now outlawed by international law) long afterwards.

But these flaming UFO sightings in 1967 had ignited tremendous public interest in the Soviet Union. Up until that point, the Soviet population had been relatively insulated from the flying saucer phenomenon, which for 20 years had been exciting enthusiasts in the United States, France, South America, Japan, and to a lesser extent elsewhere in the world. Officially, Soviet commentators had denounced the topic as a product of capitalistic war hysteria and money-grubbing yellow journalism. By late 1967, however, the hundreds of thousands of new witnesses eager to make up for lost time, official Soviet policy had changed --briefly.

In Moscow, a group of UFO enthusiasts organized a private study committee. The chief mover evidently was Feliks Zigel, an astronomy professor at the Moscow Aviation Institute. A retired general, Porfiny Stolyarov, was chosen chairman, and it is by that name ("the Stolyarov Committee") that the group is known. After a series of very successful public meetings, the group was invited to appear on Moscow National Television on November 10. There, they invited watchers nationwide to send in reports of UFO sightings for scientific analysis. It is primarily from that body of reports that 10 years later the Gindilis team selected 256 most typical for analysis.

So by late 1967 the Soviet government was faced with the uncomfortable prospect of its citizens scanning the skies and reporting all strange lights they saw -- and all with official approval. Yet many of these lights were being caused by activities Moscow did not want to acknowledge. What started out as an ill-considered but apparently harmless pandering to public curiosity now must have seemed to be getting out of control.

It wasn't just the FOBS spaceshots that needed coverups. The top secret new military satellite center at Plesetsk north of Moscow had opened the year before for polar-orbit spy satellites. Sooner or later, one was bound to be launched in twilight when its sunlit rocket exhaust plumes would standout like a torch in the sky. With the sanctioned UFO mania sweeping the USSR, such reports were bound to be published widely, betraying strong hints about the hitherto concealed existence of the military space center.

And that is exactly what happened on December 3, three weeks after the televised UFO appeal. The Cosmos-194 Vostok-class spy satellite blasted off from Plesetsk at 3 p.m. local time, shortly before sunset. As it rocketed northeastwards along the Arctic coastline, its contrails were visible to eyewitnesses in the wintry night below. It became (and to this day remains) another great Russian UFO; it is known as the "Kamennyy UFO" since it was spotted from an aircraft on route from "Mys Kamennyy" (Cape Stoney) in the New Siberian Islands to Moscow.

[Fledermaus]

Yes! I too want to become a citizen!

[Rainmist]

My son has a video he got off Kazaa of a helicopter that was hovering around the Trade Towers after the attack. I don't know if they were reporters or what. They suddenly see an unexplained object hovering off to the right of the right-hand tower and exclaim in surprise. Then suddenly the object comes right for them at a high rate of speed, then makes a sharp u-turn upwards as it's about to collide with the copter, right by the window !! Then bam, it's gone. My apologies if this video has been linked on here, I had no idea if it was. But I tell you, there's no doubt in my mind what that was - none in the least. Amazing.

[I got the rope]

http://www.ufovideo.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=101

[Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi]

In the News/Activism forum, on a thread titled Soviet Army fought UFOs, Lawgvr1955 wrote: I thought "The Day the Earth Stood Still" was a modern story of Christ. An omnipotent and omniscient being (Klatu) comes in human form and in peace to warn man to practice the Golden Rule or else face eternal death by fire and brimstone. He is killed and his disciple (robot) who does his bidding brings him back and lays him in state (inside the ship) where he shortly thereafter comes back to life. He appears once again before man and then is lifted up into the heavens (blasts off). That cinema class I took in school was not a waste of time, eh????

Um...typologically speaking, yes, as in a vague allegory but probably one of the Jungian Christs rather than the real J.C. of Galilee. The friendly stranger motif appears again in StarWars and E.T.. The X-Files seemed to employ it also with that Jeremiah character. Healers from space. Of course, in StarWars Obi Wan Kenobi dies and then mystically reappears in a transfigured glorified form. The brown medieval Franciscan robe adds to the Christian mystical suggestions.

Interesting point, by the way. Christ figures in modern films, that is.

[Quix]

Fascinating.

Though I don't think it has a lot to do with UFO's at all--even at the level of Russian citizen's involvement. That is, regardless of how much noise the citizens have made about military tests etc. it will turn out to have had negligible impact on the whole UFO phenomenon.

[_Jim]

Dr Stephen Greer and company have a corp and a machine that is making the rounds of various testing laboratories currently. Initial reports are incredibly positive.

Hype, bad science, outright lying, misinterpretation of data - you name, these guys have done it.

MOST of it results from an inability to properly monitor, measure, conduct and understand the experiments and devices they construct.

[_Jim]

wrote a book about what he observed in 1947

HOW many years after the fact?

Yeah, sure, HE'S telling the truth and EVERYBODY else including the farmer who found the "tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks" are lying!

LOL!

"NEVER let the truth get in the way of a good story" - or the proceeds from a book!

[stuck_in_new_orleans]

sigh...am I the only one that notices that the quotes should be switched?

[_Jim]

have been using such energy technologies to power the UFO type craft THEY have been building for decades--at least 30 years.

Yeah right!

While VIOLATING innumerable laws of physics to do so eh?

You're crazy and this guy Greer is getting 'rich' passing off technical 'parlor tricks' as actual science!

If you can't today *name* the principle by which something works (remember, we have split the atom into its constituent parts!) THEN you either a) don't understand it or b) the 'principle' is bogus.

ALL of the current work on 'Zero point' or 'free' energy falls into these *two* categories.

Shoot, MOST of those folks couldn't explain how a simple series circuit works in the common household flashlight light alone explain the inner working of a transistor AM radio ... and THESE are the people doing 'energy' research work!!??

Gimme a break - they're fruitcakes!

[Quix]

I gather that you are speaking specifically of DR Greer et al's stuff . . .

but are you really--from careful examination of their particular project in some detail?

or are you just speaking generically of all such?

[_Jim]

or are you just speaking generically of all such?

To date, the success of these people has been ZERO.

The cases I have had the opportunity to review - the individuals misinterpret, misidentify, mis-characterize or don't understand their 'lab work' or their 'device'.

Whether it was misinterpreting the 'peak' versus average or RMS (Root Mean Square) value of a waveform as read on a voltmeter as opposed to integrating that waveform on a digital oscilloscope and taking into account such factors as 'phase angle' (or power factor) - or incorrectly performing mathematical calculations to calculate efficiency of their 'device' -

- they turn out to be either wrong or hiding details in order to convince investors in the 'possibility' of their device

[Quix]

I'll take that as an

EMPHATIC YES

that you were speaking generically without any close or careful or perhaps without any exammination at all

of Dr Greer et al's work.

It's easy to agree with you about the vast bulk of such enterprises.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

They never could catch us after the U2 thing.

[_Jim]

A WONDERFUL, down to earth 'reference' for those who insist on 'buying ino' the rubbish that is 'free energy', perpetual motion et al:

Don Lancaster's

Pseudoscience Library

Pseudoscience is what the Houynnyhymms politely termed "That which is not so". Ludicrosities such as free energy, alien abductions, cold fusion, UFO's, or perpetual motion.

There are three levels of pseudoscience:

• Tain't likley, McGee.
• Boy, a whole flock of 'em flew over that time.
• What are they on, and where do we get some of it?

Because so much of it is so mesmerizingly awful, much of pseudoscience makes for wondrously fascinating reading.

My goal here is to place a big pile of pseudoscience onto a large stage. Shine a bright light on it. And then get you to personally conclude: "Yup - that sure is a big pile all right."

The only tiny problem is that an awful lot of it keeps leaking out of the bottom of the pile.

Here's a sample of some of the basic failings of these 'free energy' folks:

The scientific method works. In which you propose
a falsifiable theory, test that theory, then invite
others to independently attack it.

o Those laws of thermodynamics reverify themselves
on countless occasions each and every day. These
laws are (1) you can?t win; (2) you can?t break even,
and (3) if you play the game, you are sure to lose.

o Each field has its secret insider gotchas. These are
certain to cause major grief to the casual inquirer.
Accurately measuring rms power or doing low Dt
calorimetry are two obvious examples.

o Most labwork ends up dead wrong. Either by not
measuring what you think it does. Or easily getting
misinterpreted, leading to wrong conclusions.

o An hour in the library is worth a month in the lab.
Science and engineering progress by building upon
the collective results of what has gone before.

o Intelligent life elsewhere in the universe does seem
extremely likely. But the odds that they are here or
have recently visited is vanishingly small.

o A single source for any theory or claim will always
be highly suspect. Always seek major backup.

o "Too good to be true" results always are. Should
they occur, you must spend monumental time and
effort in conclusively proving yourself wrong.

o Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof.
Such evidence is always an obligation upon those
making the claims, not on those challenging.
And most especially that?

o Finding a source of " Unlimited free energy " would
be the most unimaginably heinous crime possible
against humanity. For it would inevitably turn the
planet into a cinder. Hastening an isoentropic heat
death. If you find a free energy source, you damn
well better find a new free energy sink as well. Even
then, the relative flux rates will still nail you.
themselves to Alderon, traveling or communicating faster
than light, performing miracles with magnets, expressing
psychic powers, or extracting "zero point energy".
I quite strongly believe that these pseudoscience subjects
certainly do serve as useful adjuncts to porcine whole body
cleanliness. But otherwise are total hogwash.

The usual causes of pseudoscience fantasies include?

o labwork so mesmerizingly awful that it is not even
wrong. This one gets them nearly every time.

o not having even the faintest clue as to what a true
scientific experiment, correct measurement, decent
documentation, and realistic interpretation is.

o A failure to think cyclically or to look at whole
systems. The "power stroke" from repelling magnets
is obvious, but the extra energy it took to get the
magnets there in the first place might not be.

o A lack of appreciation for engineering economics.
Economics that must take into account efficiencies,
alternatives, infrastructure, and total costs.

o Dragging along unreleated excess baggage. In the
way of paranoia, odd religions, conspiracies, obtuse
verbosity, suppression fears, or nonstandard terms.

o Giving vastly more credibility to a Keelynet file or
an anonymous newsgroup post than a mainstream
textbook or a properly peer reviewed article in a
respected scientific journal.

o The failure to thoroughly research what has gone
before and then to carefully build upon it.

o Extreme hubris that fails to recognize the lifetime
commitments that untold thousands of scientists
and engineers have made. Like it or not, at least
some of these people are rocket scientists. They are
a lot smarter than you are.
And, of course?

o Sleeping through all those Physics 101 lectures. Or
skipping the course entirely.

[Nick Danger]

Antiaircraft guns of Transcaucasian Military District fired on the flying cigar-shaped object... the object reached a speed up to 2000 kilometers per hour.

This reminds me of a city council meeting I once attended in Seal Beach, California. They were hearing the plea of a fellow who wanted to open a Fortune Telling establishment. One of the council members read from the local statute, which stated that it was a crime for any individual to materialize or de-materialize objects within the city limits; to levitate; or to cause objects to spontaneously burst into flames.

The would-be fortune teller assured the council that he intended to do none of those things. Then he added, "My advice is, if you ever come across anybody who can do any of that, don't mess with him."

In the same vein, shooting at something that can go 2000 km/h is pretty stupid.

[Quix]

Dr Greer has been following the scientific method very carefully. He is, after all, a successful MD--a trained scientist.

And, they have been working with some of the best labs available in the country.

But hey, I wouldn't want to hinder your notions of scientific parochialism in the least. We all have our sacred cows lending us comfort and illusions of safety, security and stability.

And your scientific approach to Dr Greer's project is sooooooooo impressively rigorous.

/sar