Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Grand Canyon Made By Noah's Flood, Book Says (Geologists Skewer Park For Selling Creationism)
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | January 8, 2004 | Julie Cart, Los Angeles Times

Posted on 01/08/2004 7:21:37 AM PST by Scenic Sounds

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:45:24 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

How old is the Grand Canyon? Most scientists agree with the version that rangers at Grand Canyon National Park tell visitors: that the 217-mile-long chasm in northern Arizona was carved by the Colorado River 5 million to 6 million years ago.


(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bible; creationism; flood; grandcanyon; greatflood; noah; noahsflood
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 581-592 next last
To: Scenic Sounds
"Critics say that by condoning religious material in the park, the federal government is endorsing a particular spiritual point of view."

These "critics" should try getting an education before the show how ignorant they are by speaking.

The Federal Government is only Constituionally prohibited from "passing any legislation" regarding religion. It is not prohibited from religious expression, and it has freely and correctly engaged in such expresion since before George Washington established the Holy Day of Thanksgiving as a National Holiday by Presidential Act at the unanimous request of both Houses of Congress in 1793.

Idiots who don't understand our Laws can certainly opine on them, but they should not be given a serious ear.

;-/

41 posted on 01/08/2004 8:40:45 AM PST by Gargantua (One man's puppy is another man's pudding... or something like that...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hunble
Just to be clear though: both sides of the debate rely on the theory of spontaneous generation.

FALSE!

Evolution theory is about the slow change of existing living organisms over time.

A demonstratably false notion due to the biological need for an organism to make numerous systemic changes simultaneously to survive. For example, a creature moving from water to air would have to "evolve" more than one thing (lungs, circulatory system...) to make the shift.

In fact, evolutionary theory recently has been morphing into "burst-evolution" theory which attempts to explain the absence of "transitional" link creatures in the fossil record by saying that new creatures appeared almost "spontaneously." (Gee, sounds a lot like Creationism without that annoying concept of a God to be accountable to.)

Seems to take about as much faith to believe either religion. So I'll choose the one with a God.

42 posted on 01/08/2004 8:42:53 AM PST by GluteusMax
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: r9etb
How the first form of life originated is not known, or even included in the theory of evolution.

Evolution is the study of how existing organisms have changed over time.

Creationist theory demands that all organism were created at the time of Genesis and can not be altered. Any newly created organism must suddenly appear out of thin air, because of God's desire.

When a Creationist can demonstrate the sudden appearance of a new organism, I will be very impressed and convinced.

43 posted on 01/08/2004 8:43:34 AM PST by Hunble
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Gargantua
Get your copy here.
44 posted on 01/08/2004 8:46:49 AM PST by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: BigBobber
"If there was a Biblical flood it would have occurred all over the world at the same time, so there should be lots of Grand Canyons all over. Where are they?"

Your argument can be viewed another way, too:

If the Grand Canyon were formed over millions of years by natural geological forces, they would have occurred all over the world at the same time, so there should be lots of Grand Canyons all over. Where are they?

Answer, please?

See, that's the problem with employing imbecilic straw men to try and make a non-existent point... they fall apart with the slightest breeze...

;-/

45 posted on 01/08/2004 8:47:01 AM PST by Gargantua (One man's puppy is another man's pudding... or something like that...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Hunble
How the first form of life originated is not known, or even included in the theory of evolution.

We're not talking about evolution, we're talking about how life originated. Those who reject the idea that God did it, must therefore claim that life just happened ... spontaneously. Unless you want to tell us there's another way that life came from non-life?

Evolution is the study of how existing organisms have changed over time.

Uh huh. And the fossil record tends to shows species popping up whole, not developing slowly -- a fact that the theory of punctuated equilibrium (among others) is attempting to explain.

When a Creationist can demonstrate the sudden appearance of a new organism, I will be very impressed and convinced.

Creationist theory demands that all organism were created at the time of Genesis and can not be altered. Any newly created organism must suddenly appear out of thin air, because of God's desire.

You permit no middle ground here, and are thus relying on a straw-man view of what "Creationist Theory" has to be.

Be that as it may, the fossil record does seem to show that something very close to this actually happened.

46 posted on 01/08/2004 8:52:00 AM PST by r9etb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Hunble
When a Creationist can demonstrate the sudden appearance of a new organism, I will be very impressed and convinced.

Read 'em and weep!

47 posted on 01/08/2004 8:54:12 AM PST by Scenic Sounds (Sí, estamos libres sonreír otra vez - ahora y siempre.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: r9etb
Don't forget to add a lot of abrasives and high-energy flow -- the mechanism by which the Grand Canyon was formed.

Just the same, it's interesting that a simple experiment that could be done by creation scientists has not been done. Or if it has been done, they are afraid to publish the results. I can assure you that anyone who could demonstrate that the canyon could be formed in a thousand years or less would win great acclaim.

48 posted on 01/08/2004 8:56:18 AM PST by js1138
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

bump
49 posted on 01/08/2004 8:57:04 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: GluteusMax
Seems to take about as much faith to believe either religion. So I'll choose the one with a God.

No problem my friend, since you can obviously provide a well documented example of a new organism suddenly being created.

Evolution theory is the study of how organisms have changed over time.

They have!

If the changes of an organism is rapid (100 years) or slow (1 million years), that is only a clarification of the exact processes involved.

With Creationist theory, how does this new organism suddenly appear?

Does it shimmer with a blue light, just before it is fully formed?

Is their a loud popping sound, similar to thunder, as this new organism suddenly displaces the air?

Have you ever thought about the physical aspects (such as sound) that could be well documented by an act of Creation today?

Or, are you saying that no new organism have been created since the Earth was created, as documented in the book of Genesis?

50 posted on 01/08/2004 8:59:16 AM PST by Hunble
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: LiteKeeper
>>Grand Canyon strata show geologic time is imaginary>>

The Vishnu layer is schist; a metamorphic rock. The layers above it are sandstone. Sandstone will "fracture" along the cementation between sand grains and then recement, since the grains themselves are harder than the cementation. In any event, the process still takes geological time scales. Creationism would insist it was done over just a few thousand years. The evidence presented here, if true, would only suggest that contemporary geology and Creationism are BOTH wrong.

>>''The crystalline-basement rocks exposed deep within the Canyon (schist, granite, and gneiss) represent some of earth's oldest rocks, probably from early in Creation Week.">>

"Probably from early in the creation week?" Sorry, but biblical creationism isn't as simple as God took six days to form the Earth. What would be consistent with creationism would be to say, "probably early on the third day."

Now, what you have is God simulating a geological process, rushing through the creation process so it takes a day (or six days), not billions of years. Why would God construct the Earth in a way that led people to disbelieve in him? I've met some Calvinists who claimed God is purposely fooling man, citing the verse: "I will confound the proud in their inmost thoughts."

So, you can believe in a God who created Man, endows him with reason, then purposely uses that reason to keep Man from knowing him, and then sentences 99.9% of all Mankind to eternal torment.

Or you can believe that "God is Love," who "died for our sins" so as to "bring all Men to know him," and "who so loved the world (Kosmos, Gr. for "all that is") that he gave his only Son so that whosoever believeth in him shall have eternal life."
51 posted on 01/08/2004 8:59:21 AM PST by dangus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: r9etb
Creationist Theory: God created all forms of life on Earth.

HOW?

52 posted on 01/08/2004 9:01:53 AM PST by Hunble
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: r9etb
I meant "soft" in the geological sense. Sandstone is a heck of lot harder.
53 posted on 01/08/2004 9:02:03 AM PST by dangus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: dangus
Or you can believe that "God is Love," who "died for our sins" so as to "bring all Men to know him," and "who so loved the world (Kosmos, Gr. for "all that is") that he gave his only Son so that whosoever believeth in him shall have eternal life."

That Sir, if my concept of God!

Other subjects of debate has been created by man, for political power, over the last 2000 years.

54 posted on 01/08/2004 9:08:15 AM PST by Hunble
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: dangus
Since the rim of the GC is higher than the source of the river don't forget to make the water run up hill in your experiment to see how much erosion you get.

The above is just an illustration of the fact that your experiment is making a lot of assumptions.

1. That the rock now in the canyon has never been soft. Give me a cake of concrete powder and water and I can erode it in seconds. Give me the concrete after water has been added and it is set and it could take years maybe even hundreds of years to erode.

2. That you know how much water passed by in the making of the canyon. Without knowing the volume of water how can one know the amount of erosion?

All in all your experiment really has little to do with how it was formed or how long it took to form it.
55 posted on 01/08/2004 9:08:37 AM PST by 728b (Never cry over something that can not cry over you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: js1138
Just the same, it's interesting that a simple experiment that could be done by creation scientists has not been done. Or if it has been done, they are afraid to publish the results. I can assure you that anyone who could demonstrate that the canyon could be formed in a thousand years or less would win great acclaim.

Well, there's the difficulty of building your own high-volume, high-speed river.... ;-) I suppose one could cite the development of high pressure water jet cutters as "proof"....

OTOH, the geological formation of the Columbia River basin and gorge suggests that you can get very significant geological features in a geologically short (thousands of years) time frame.

That said, I have to confess that I'm baffled by those folks who expend so much time and effort on this 6,000 year deal. Even as an article of religious faith, it just doesn't matter.

56 posted on 01/08/2004 9:11:17 AM PST by r9etb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Hunble
Creationist Theory: God created all forms of life on Earth.

Back atcha: Evolutionary theory: random chance created all forms of life on Earth. HOW?

57 posted on 01/08/2004 9:12:30 AM PST by r9etb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: dangus
I meant "soft" in the geological sense. Sandstone is a heck of lot harder.

Well, I know that.... ;-)

And basalt is harder than sandstone -- and yet Dry Falls was apparently formed in a very short time frame. With enough water and abrasives, you can do a lot of damage....

58 posted on 01/08/2004 9:14:18 AM PST by r9etb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: Scenic Sounds
I bet that somebody on this thread has or will say that by allowing this book to be sold, religion is forced on people.
59 posted on 01/08/2004 9:21:34 AM PST by Central_Floridian (For Faith and Freedom)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: r9etb
How?

Changes in the DNA will have potential results. Most often, those changes will result in the death of the organism.

Random, is how those changes in the DNA occurred.

How the organism survives with the DNA that it inherited from it's two parents, is not random.

Are you intentionally distorting reality and factual information for your own political gains? If so, why?

Once again, can you provide us a SINGLE EXAMPLE of a newly created organism?

60 posted on 01/08/2004 9:21:37 AM PST by Hunble
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 581-592 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson