Service Charges Irk ReplayTV Customers

Stamford Advocate ^ | 12/31/03 | May Wong (A.P.)

[Holly_P]

SAN JOSE, Calif. -- People who gleefully treated themselves or others to a shiny new ReplayTV digital video recorder this Christmas may not be as happy anymore.

DVRs are the latest alternative to VCRs, and an untold number of customers recently took advantage of ReplayTV's dramatic price drop to $149 for its lowest-end 40-hour model, thinking the deal included three years of service, which is needed for the devices to work.

Now, some are furious, after their service was disconnected and they were told they must pay additional fees to reactivate it.

"It's almost like buying a car and having the car later stop working, saying you can't drive it anymore unless you give us more money," said Eric Maur, 26, of Kaneohe, Hawaii.

Officials with Santa Clara, Calif.-based ReplayTV could not be reached for comment late Wednesday. But in a statement about the consumer complaints, the company said it is assessing the situation "to find the best possible solution."

DVRs, pioneered by TiVo and ReplayTV, allow users to automatically record television programming onto a hard disk instead of videotape. Users can also pause live TV, watch instant replays or skip commercials.

Maur was among those whose eyes popped on Dec. 17 when several retailers, including Amazon.com and Circuit City, began advertising the reduced price, saying it included three years of free service. That's how it was labeled on the product itself, inside and outside, Maur said.

Before the price change, the 40-hour ReplayTV models cost $499 including the three years of service. The required service handles the television programming information that's needed to make the recording features work.

Angry postings started to emerge on

[TexRef]

Install this $47 (with shipping) PVR card into your PC, and in combination with a $32 PC graphics card with TV-out you have your own TIVO.

No you don't... You have a computer that can record TV -- NOT the same thing!

TiVo is a totally new way to watch TV -- it automatically records the programs that you want to watch, regardless of what time they come on... If your favorite program changes from Wednesday to Friday nights, it will see the change and record the program at it's new date and time. If there is an hour-long special of a half-hour program, it will see the change and record the full hour.

The service charge that TiVo charges is for the program data that makes all this possible. You can purchase a lifetime subscription for the product for $299 and avoid all monthly fees.

Talk to anyone with a TiVo and they will tell you the same thing -- they wouldn't live without one after using it!

[jimtorr]

A rule of thumb about how long an excerpt should be is just enough to convey what the article is about. The first couple of paragraphs is usually enough.

I only know this much because I've been spening way too much time on FR for the past five years, and read what jimrob, johnrob, physisist(the original FR attorney) and the others involved in the Post/Times lawsuit wrote about guidelines at the time of the suit resolution.

[Hotdog]

I have a Replay. The commercial skip works beautifully during football games...never have to touch a button. Best darn thing I ever brought.

[SamAdams76]

Agreed but the difference between a DVR and a VCR is roughly the same as the difference between using a manual typewriter and using a personal computer with laser printer attached.

With a VCR, you had to load one of those analog tapes, and then go through all sorts of gyrations to setup the proper channel at the proper time. (Keep in mind that people can't even get the clocks on their VCRs set properly.)

With a DVR however, you just call up the menu, choose the program you want to record (sortable by time, channel, subject, etc) and click a single button on your DVR remote. No clocks or channels to set. This is all done for you.

With a VCR, you are limited to a 2-hour tape (you can record 4 or 6 hours but the picture quality becomes terrible).

With a DVR however, you can record up to 80 hours of programs at at time (even at the lower-quality settings, the picture is better than a VCR set at the highest setting).

With a VCR, it takes you forever to fast-forward or rewind to the spot you want.

With a DVR however, you can instantly access the program you want and then once in a program, you can very quickly get to the part your want without all the clicking and whirring of motors you get with a VCR.

With a DVR, you don't have to keep buying overpriced blank tapes. A DVR recorder will never "eat" your tape either.

Do I need to go on?

[SamAdams76]

See my post #24. I know, I know. You're such a wiseguy!

[cd jones]

That's pretty good.........just like a VCR huh?

;-)

[cd jones]

woops, nevermind, lewislynn had the same thoughts I did, but you addressed them.

[longtermmemmory]

It records on a hard drive but does it record on a DVD or CD? Seems like a rip off if you can't shelve, your recordings.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

No you don't... You have a computer that can record TV -- NOT the same thing!

I just want to digitally record a TV show to VCD once in a while.

Excuse me for not being a TV-addicted vegetable.

[SamAdams76]

It records on a hard drive but does it record on a DVD or CD? Seems like a rip off if you can't shelve, your recordings.

It's a ripoff in the same sense that an MP3 player is a ripoff because it doesn't burn the MP3s to CD. Like an MP3 player, a DVR fits a particular niche. If you want to record your own DVD's, you get a DVD recorder instead of a DVR (as you would get a CD burner instead of an MP3 player if you wanted to burn CDs).

The DVR's are supposedly hackable if you really wanted to send the video to another computer with a DVD recorder. But why bother? Most of us don't have enough hours in the day to watch a particular TV program more than once even if we could shelve them all.

In the near future, you will have all the TV shows and movies ever produced at your fingertips anyhow. Cable companies are working at a frenetic pace to make this reality. The DVR is simply a stopgap measure until the video on-demand concept reaches maturity.

[gitmo]

Maur was among those whose eyes popped on Dec. 17 when several retailers, including Amazon.com and Circuit City, began advertising the reduced price, saying it included three years of free service. That's how it was labeled on the product itself, inside and outside, Maur said.

...

Angry postings started to emerge on Web sites on Dec. 22 after ReplayTV announced that the new $149 price did not include the service subscription. Instead, customers would have to pay a $12.95 a month or a one-time payment of $299 for the service.

ReplayTV responded to the outrage the next day, posting on its Web site an apology for the confusion but told customers they should resolve the matter with their retailer, or return the product.

---

It looks to me like the company is obligated to provide the service guaranteed on the box and in the literature.

[Ozone34]

In addition to my 2 ReplayTV units, my home office pc has the ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon 8500DV video card, which includes software that pretty much allows it to do most of what the ReplayTV unit does. I use this to record shows that I want to save. I can burn a 1 hour program in VCD format on a CD-R. I have a collection of over 100 "Iron Chef" episodes that I've obtained in this way. The VCD format is perfectly adequate for recording NTSC programs, about the same quality as VHS tape. Recording NTSC TV programs on DVD would be overkill.

[TexRef]

I just want to digitally record a TV show to VCD once in a while.

Then you don't really need a TiVo since it does a lot more than you require.

Excuse me for not being a TV-addicted vegetable.

Why the hostility? I didn't insult you... I just pointed out that a PC with a TV capture card is not the same thing as a TiVo

[RWG]

Right, Whiny consumers, they should read the fine print really well. It serves them right trying to get something for nothing. Keep big government out of the way of consumers and vendors.

[July 4th]

Yes - TiVo completely changes the way that you watch TV. If I have it on FOX News and miss something that a guest or reporter said, I just rewind a few seconds and watch it again.

That said, unless you want the program guide, you do NOT need to pay for TiVo service. All you have to do is set the programs to record manually. There are plenty of free online program guides, so I just get the times from there.

[July 4th]

The TiVo does far more than a VCR. For example, I can start watching a one hour show that starts at 8pm at 8:20. I just zip through the commercials, and I finish at 9pm. The recorder records while I'm fast-forwarding, rewinding, etc.

Also, the speed allows you to do things much more easily than you ever could with a VCR. You can rewind a minute to watch a particular segment again, all the while the TiVO keeps recording, and then when you're ready, you can instantly jump to real time.

Finally, all of your shows are stored right on the TiVo. No swapping tapes, etc. It completely changes the way you watch TV. Perhaps you should check it out to see the differences.

[SamAdams76]

Yes, that's another feature I forgot to mention. You can actually "rewind" live shows even if you don't set them up to be taped. You can also pause a live show (such as if the phone rings or you need to use the bathroom) and pick up where you left off later.

Can't do that with a VCR!

I know about not needing the TiVO service. I get it anyway because it's convenient using the program guide to setup taping. But it's nice to know that I can always cut that expense if I had to and set things up manually.

[oceanview]

don't know much about Replay.

But always get the lowest priced Tivo with the smallest disk, you can upgrade your own disk drive for a fraction of the cost with step by step instructions or kits at tivocommunity.com

The best Tivo deal is for direct-tv customers, a new receiver with Tivo for $99, $4.99 per month subscription. Remember, those Tivo liftetime subscriptions are for the life of your unit, not your life.

[gcruse]

Whenever I watch sports, I hit pause as soon as a game starts, go do something for an hour, come back and watch the game, blasting my way through commercials, timeouts, etc. (This of course is not possible with TiVo!)

As you describe it, I could do this with TIVO, I think.  Just go to the channel you want, press record and do what you did.

[Ozone34]

The main difference is that with TIVO you must "fast-forward" through commercials, etc. The TIVO consortium is deeply in bed with Hollywood, and they want you to see commercials, even at a subliminal level as they go by fast. ReplayTV has a 30 sec advance button in addition to the fast forward controls. This is why ReplayTV has been sued and gone through a series of bankruptcy/bailout scenarios, and is no longer available at retail outlets.