Posted on 12/31/2003 6:29:47 AM PST by Pikamax
Edited on 07/19/2004 2:12:58 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Lawmakers Can't Arrest U.S. Job Shift to India to Lower Costs Dec. 31 (Bloomberg) -- Bob Thibodeau founded Financial Systems Architects in 1998 to help companies such as Citigroup Inc. handle electronic transactions. By 2001, he was driven out of business. Lower-cost Indian competitors undercut his bids on two straight contracts, he said.
(Excerpt) Read more at quote.bloomberg.com ...
Show me! Where's the proof? Why is cheating so widespread in India (and especially China) that GRE testing was canceled in 2002?. Cheating was especially bad in China and India for the Computer Science GRE. It's not just the GRE. It's everywhere.
Every time I see "they are better than us" BS I will post this.
You may not agree with Americans for Higher Education Reform but their links are to legitimate news organizations with stories covering widespread cheating in Asian countries.
http://www.aher.org/soaf_quick.php
Why haven't we heard of problems? We have. Freepers have posted their experience and read CIO magazine articles (cio.com). Then read the comments readers add to the articles. And keep in mind that the stampede offshore is still ramping up. Of course, not all Asians cheat.
BTW, in the pre-PC days of early TV (the John Cameron "Timex, takes a licking and keeps on ticking" Swayze days) I remember the annual stories of university students in India rioting because the universities were trying to keep them for cheating on finals.
So where's the proof that "they" are better? What's the real reason for offshoring?
"It's for the consumers," says Hillary Corpexec.
Oh, I didn't realize you were addressing "small business". In over ten years of trying I never found a means of constructively (and profitably) working with small business, so forgive me for assuming you were working with a different market segment.
In fact, now that I think about it, my customer base is largely multi-national/Fortune 1000 corporations.
However, my own business plan defines my job to provide that "local intereface" to customers, so that element isn't entirely missing.
Broadband satellite installations also require a physical presence. You can't offshore that, either. The follow-on services and products that the custoemr requires make for a profitable enterprise. No one's going offshore for that.
Well, that's only if your customer happens to be onshore. But as we all know the customer base is moving offshore, and when *they* need locals they won't be here in the US.
Do accept my wishes, however, that your enterprise is wildly successful. And personally I am all for protection of technology (and manufacturing) jobs here in the US because, quite frankly, I think there's more profit in it (and it's better for the country). However, if my profession is going to commit mass suicide by remaining unengaged in the political process then I'm not going to be one of the lemmings going over the cliff(!)
And all for $15.00 an hour!
The proof, as the say, is in the pudding. I am skeptical about some of the offshore talent, but I know firsthand that many of them are every bit as sharp as even the sharpest US technologists.
I've been a software engineer since '81, and have been involved in a broad range of challenging projects since that time. And I have no reservations at all about the highly talented team I've put together in Latin America. In fact, I have found their command of a wide range of cutting-edge technologies (and their professionalism) to be altogether impressive.
Yes, I have no doubt. I've heard the same from a friend of mine who has done projects in South America.
I have experience working with H1B IT folks primarily from India years ago. Some were top notch, some were average, and some were not so good. Just like Americans.
I'm tired of seeing articles that imply or flat-out state that "they" are better than us. "They" being Indian and Chinese techies.
I didn't make up the stories about cheating and phony documents. I have no idea what percentage cheat and lie but it is bad enough to make some mainstream media report it and it has caused university testing and professional certification organizations to take action. Maybe hiring managers don't care?
What if cheating was so bad here that university testing and professional certification organizations had to take action? 24/7 coverage on ABCNNBCBS.
I think the answers to your questions are pretty self-evident. They haven't become superpowers because their national histories have not been conducive to that. This, however, does not reflect on the potential of individuals who by circumstance of birth happen to live there.
And there is plenty of true innovation taking place all over the world today. In fact, many of those technologists can't work within the US because, by their measure, the US is not a "free country" ( ref. http://www.openbsd.org/crypto.html#people )
Just in case someone thinks they are not replaceable - THINK AGAIN! YOU ARE! It's been going on for atleast 15 years so CHANGE your jobs if you work in technology. Why wait till the last nanosecond and get laid off?
If you really do NOT want to change your job, then move to a country that is doing the outsourcing. Be aware though, you will have competition and may not get the job there.
Law makers cannot save your jobs! It is also not their role to require people to keep you in your profession.
Haahahahahaha you Americans just not get it...to understand thing you need to have been in Soviet Union, then you understand mentality of own elite who create you to Soviet image of worker. In Soviet Union, almost all jobs on same pay level. Engineer make almost as much as constructor on building site. So why be engineer? 1. Because it better then working in cold with hands. 2. for love of making something...but elites are happy they get great labor at almost zero cost.
Little saying to start to learn from Soviet Times: You pretend to pay us, we pretend to work.
fortune.com reports in "Hang-Ups in India Call center backlash! India isn't the answer, say some firms," by Justin Fox. Dec. 22, 2003 Issue
"But call centers and back-office operations that offer real-time service need peak staffing in the middle of the Indian night, and many providers are already struggling with high turnover (upwards of 20% a year) among their urban, just-out-of-college workforce. As a result, Indian operators are beginning to eye older workers living in the provinces. Translation: Get ready for an even wider cultural and language gulf between workers and Western customers."
The article did not mention first year or not. I've read other articles that put the turnover at 35 percent. I didn't know about the older workers until I read this. I guess we ain't seen nothing yet.
At least India hasn't played the race card. I honestly do however expect hyphenated groups here to start screaming "Racism!" Maybe it'll become a hate crime to be upset with a call center employee "over there." Wherever.
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