Town Refuses to Ask Citizens If Library Porn Should Be Filtered Out - Please Help Us!

Plan2Succeed.org ^ | 22 Dec 2003 | Plan2Succeed.org

[plan2succeed.org]

Town Refuses to Ask Citizens If Library Porn Should Be Filtered Out; Plan2Succeed.org Seeking Pro Bono Counsel.

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Something is wrong when a small group of people called a Library Board of Trustees determines that a public library must continue to allow access to pornography despite admittedly being outside the library's mission, the Township Committee claims it is powerless to stop the Board, and the citizens have no say.

[TigersEye]

Yawn.

The first response of an elitist. The common vernacular (which I'm sure is much too base for you) would be "whatever."

The mission of the local public library is not to be a "research" institution. They have neither the budget nor the space.

Inter-library loan. I used to live in a very small town in the Rockies and I could get any book or publication I wanted within a week or two. No charge.

What an ejoocated banana-breath like you just can't fathom is the concept that literacy actually leads to something. The ability to use information; which thus leads to a need to acquire information. Furthermore it's too lowbrow for you to consider the idea that common folk research such common things as literature or history or art which are subjects that public libraries amply supply. The poor peasants can also larn a thing or two about local government or building codes and actually effect their lives for the better as well as the lives of others in their communities. Not as exciting as researching ticks, I'm sure, but then the average man don't need a book to know how to deal with ticks.

[TigersEye]

Let's get down to brass tacks: Do you believe that local governments, freely elected by the people, have the right to set their own standards, or must those standards (or lack of standards) be imposed upon them by state or federal courts?

I see. Now you want to discuss things civilly. OK.

Yes, I believe local governments, elected as you say, should be free to set their own standards. I have not read every post but this thread began with the perceived problem of an unelected library board setting the standards. No mention of the ACLU being involved. Even if they were it doesn't change the fact that the root of the problem, concerning children, is personal responsibility not outside political interest groups or judicial activism.

[Antoninus]

The first response of an elitist....What an ejoocated banana-breath like you just can't fathom ... Furthermore it's too lowbrow for you to consider the idea that common folk research such common things as literature or history or art which are subjects that public libraries amply supply.

If you knew me, you'd realize how utterly ridiculous your continuing attempts to pigeon-hole me as an "elitist" are. At any rate, I thank you for your attempts to bump me up a few notches on the social ladder.

I see. Now you want to discuss things civilly. OK.

Was I uncivil in any of my responses to you? I think you read a little too much into what I was trying to say. My whole point was: when studying a subject in detail, be it archaeology, sports medicine, astrophysics, or Chinese politics, a university library trumps a public library every time. I know this because, 1) I sell books to both markets and 2) I do some research myself. BTW, most university libraries are accessible to the general public (though without borrowing privileges). I apologize if my attempt to impart some specialized knowledge that I have struck you as "elitism" somehow.

Yes, I believe local governments, elected as you say, should be free to set their own standards.

Wonderful, we agree.

I have not read every post but this thread began with the perceived problem of an unelected library board setting the standards.

The "unelected" library board did not just form of its own volition in Joe Prig's house one night. I'm assuming they were appointed by someone who was elected--a tried and true mechanism in a republic for delegating responsibility. The ultimate responsiblity for their decisions, however, devolves to the elected official who appointed them. Thus, if their decision angers enough of the voters, that elected official may lose his job next time around. Isn't that how the system is supposed to work? What exactly is the problem here?

[sfRummygirl]

I think you have had some bad experiences with church going people, and for that I am sorry. However, this still doesn't stop kids from being exposed to this. And it seems that you advocate getting kids toughend up to this kinda thing, instead of trying to stop it(It being the exposure to underaged kids).
Again, this is not solving the problem. Do you think it is even a problem?

[sfRummygirl]

Yeah, it is sounding like the reality is coming out here.

[sfRummygirl]

You used 'biblethumpers', living in a 'doublewide', 'puritanical', and 'selling propane to rural bumpkins'.

Your issues/prejudices run deeper than your care for kids. I'm starting to wonder if you are even a freeper.

By the way, I live in a major metropolitan city, in a townhouse, and am not going to apologize for wanting to not screw up kids.
'Exposure to culture'? Come on, man.

[sfRummygirl]

I had friends who were raised like this....the kind of parents who were swingers, too. The kids are all screwed up, and some went to 'the pole'....

[sfRummygirl]

Soft fascism is when someone wants to keep kids away from boo-ka--k## shots?
Oh, wait, I'm supposed to be puritanical....I shouldn't have known what that means.....

Come on, folks....are everyones addictions this strong? Man, get some help.
We aren't talking about making it ilLEEEgal for adults to do this in their own privacy. It's the freakin' library with the freakin' kids.
Unbelievable.

[sfRummygirl]

"sacrifice AIDS babies to Baal"


Good one. Like it.

[milan]

You do realize that you just compared those who view porn in the same group as thieves breaking into homes? That doesn't seem telling?

[milan]

The mission of the public library is not primarily to facilitate research but to promote public literacy.

I appreciate your input, but others on this thread are convinced that Einstein hung out at the public library. If we censor porn from the library computers, we may be damaging little minds and hindering lifesaving research! < / sarcasm>

Seriously, thanks for adding some common sense to this discussion. I am going to add my explanation to yours if that is okay? The public library is a consolidation of information to promote public literacy.

[GladesGuru]

Actually, I did voice my opinion, which is that trash is trash. Should those paying for the library want to pay for trash, they have a right to it. The 1st Amendment has been violated far too much, particularly in the post 9/11 period, by the patriot Act, for me to add my voice to the swarm of non-Constitutionalists deconstructing America's core intellectual constructs.

But I see nothing wrong with educating the public that trash is trash.

For example, there are very sound and easily explainable reasons that girls shouln't play nasty sex games. By trying education instead of indoctrination, I found that the students responded far more postively. They also reported to me, as in when meeting me years later on the streets of Miami, that what I had taught them had been remembered and used.

This is not because of my winning personality, nor my great good looks (don't I wish!) but because the lessons had predictability - that is, the lessons could help the student do better in life.

Such lessons are found throughout the Constitution, the letters of the Founders, and the documents upon which these men based their weltanschaung. Prominent amongst these books were the old and new testaments.

There is a lesson here - study great books and develop a great mind. Study sex trash and become a sluttie. Simple - clear - obvious to all.

In a Republic such as we are heir to, freedom can not be infringed upon. 'Course we can teach what happened throughout history to those who did not learn the lessons of history.

An ending note. Those foremost in the "world of the sexually liberated", the members of the soi disant "Queer Nation" die some thirty years earlier than those who follow a more traditional lifestyle. 'Tis a strong and unambiguous argument against "sexual liberation".

And 'LIL SLUTIES acquire, along with their 'Liberating Experiences' an impressive array of diseases. From the obvious STD's like HIV/AIDS to increased cancer rates from the various chemical manipulations of their exquisitely complex biochemistry by birth control pills, abortion pills, and the lil sucker(I here refer to the vacuum aspirator) in the hot little hand of the friendly neighborhood abortionist - all take a toll on the female body.

That's a very high price to pay so that the male philosophers dream of "free agentry of women" can be realized! And don't forget to tell the girls that the guys at Animal House also believe in "free agentry of women" - every last drunk, drooling, one of 'em.

[TigersEye]

You do realize that you just compared those who view porn in the same group as thieves breaking into homes? That doesn't seem telling?

You made that comparison and it is telling.

What I said is that children who have no discipline in one regard will likely not have it in others. That's not really a comparison at all. A lack of respect for authority is one thing not two.

[TigersEye]

If you knew me, you'd realize how utterly ridiculous your continuing attempts to pigeon-hole me as an "elitist" are.

Your profile does paint a somewhat different picture of you. I was just going by the grand entrance you made on this thread.

I apologize if my attempt to impart some specialized knowledge that I have struck you as "elitism" somehow.

Didn't take you long to get back to the "more-educated-than-thou" attitude. I have been in a university library. In fact I spent a year at a university but thankfully I was distracted by drugs and sex and the greater Soma of "higher education" didn't usurp my mind.

I'm assuming they were appointed by someone who was elected--a tried and true mechanism in a republic for delegating responsibility. The ultimate responsiblity for their decisions, however, devolves to the elected official who appointed them. Thus, if their decision angers enough of the voters, that elected official may lose his job next time around. Isn't that how the system is supposed to work? What exactly is the problem here?

-Cough!- I'd like to know the same thing. If the republican process has to be circumvented on the local level by invoking the U.S. Congress to intervene in it who will we appeal to for redress of the same dysfunctions in our Federal government? If the principles of our republic are to endure at all sooner or later the people themselves (in some sizable number) will have to actually use and rely upon those principles in order to not only uphold and secure them but bring them to greater fruition.

The ACLU is not a cause of those dysfunctions but a symptom. I see two solutions; the one both you and I alluded to above, the ballot box, or the last ditch solution, the cartridge box. There are however more options than those two solutions. One is the acceptance of totalitarian slavery whether by choice or by default of apathy and ignorance. That seems to be the path both parties are being encouraged to lead us down at present.

[milan]

Actually, you made the comparison. Look at your post.

[TigersEye]

I appreciate your input, but others on this thread are convinced that Einstein hung out at the public library.

Great example! /sarcasm

He was a high school dropout and formed his theories while daydreaming. Your continuing dismissal of the accomplishments of ordinary people and the pivotal role public libraries often play in those accomplishments is a testimony to what a classist act you are.

It speaks volumes that you choose the example of a professor studying Lyme disease to differentiate between "important" research and the inconsequential efforts of the common folk grubbing around in the pitiable stacks of literary rubbish in public libraries.

In 2002 23,000 out of 280 million people were infected with Lyme disease which can be treated with amoxycillin or erythromycin. Yet one citizen at a public library, at his/her own expense, can use the basic information found there to change the thinking of their whole community for decades whether it is a town of 800 or 800,000. They could in fact gather more than enough information to launch a campaign of Lyme Disease awareness in their community thereby obviating a need to eliminate the disease itself and save the taxpayer millions in grants to find a cure for a disease which will probably mutate shortly after it's found.

The best advice for a book learned city boy though is "stay outta da bushes."

[TigersEye]

You do realize that you just compared those who view porn in the same group as thieves breaking into homes?

Yes I did make a comparison but it was not the comparison you made here. If you didn't grasp my previous explanation about it then you lack the critical thinking skills to comprehend it with any amount of further illucidation. I guess you'll just have to accept your limitations and go try to impress someone else with your professorial worship. :-)

[TigersEye]

bttt