If not Bush, then who?

12-28-2003 | agitate

[Agitate]

I've noticed several threads where people say they will not vote for Bush if he supports certain causes. Some include:

Memogate:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1045476/posts

Broad Amnesty in immigration:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1046165/posts

(Please don't see this as an attack on those threads or any comments in them, it's not.)

While I agree with the conservative position on both of these threads, I don't understand how a person could not vote for Bush even if he does some things that are inexplicable from a conservative point of view.

My belief is nothing could be worse than a democrat in office in 2004. I know that is the lesser of two evils vote, but it is true.

Even if Bush gave amnesty to immigrants to pander to hispanics, which would be disgusting, is that reason enough to allow a democrat a greater chance to get in office? Wouldn't the dems likely do worse?

[Consort]

Regretfully we may have to give up the white house, the congress and or the Senate in order to send the message that we are GOING to be heard, or the Republicans are GOING to be out of office.. Again.

Geeze.

[woodyinscc]

No one will interpret Bush losing the way you think they would.

Absolutely correctamundo.!!

The message sent, would be the people want the country to move to the left. Over at "du" you have divisions of their ilk, between 9 candidates. I have yet to see one poster say, to heck with you I will vote for Bush. If President Bush tried to ram every conservative issue, in one fell swoop down the electorate's throat, he would be a one termer for sure. And guess what, the libs would have their mandate.

[inquest]

If President Bush tried to ram every conservative issue, in one fell swoop down the electorate's throat, he would be a one termer for sure.

That's about as straw-man as they come. As if anyone here's demanding that he do that.

[tj005]

The president cannot spend a dime without the Congress... but the Congress CAN. I think the problems with the spending should be addressed to the perps that do it

[tj005]

yep

[inquest]

Umm, he is one of the perps that do it. All of these spending increases have been at his behest.

But don't worry. My attention won't stray from our congressional friends in the slightest.

[woodyinscc]

I guess you have not been reading the same threads and posts that I have. I posted CommonTators analysis in the hope of better understanding, but all you can do is ask for an explanation about the media. I agree with a lot of the Constitution Party's platform, maybe they would do good to get behind President Bush, and try to accomplish something.

[RightWinger]

Dubya will win, even if I don't vote for him.
That means I believe he will win the election.

If Dubya loses, it's his fault, not mine.
That means, if he should lose, I will not feel guilty.

Understand now? I'm sorry for not spelling it out for you.

[tj005]

The problem with your 'giving up the white house' is that the damage that you cause by giving it to the democrats will not be regained.. you will have lost... forever. Bad strategy, but its your vote

[hosepipe]

Yeah!.. put it too us/them Agitate,,,,

I will vote for Bush because I have to... theres really no other good option... What I hate is because I really don't have a choice.. The difference between the two partys is marginal as I see it and as anyone else sees it too thats paying attention.. The pitiful Republican party has sunk to trying to trick democrats into lending it more power by appearing to be compassionate conservatives(socialists).. what a lame scam... /b>..

I am not amused at a bunko election.. ever since Newt got himself Bork'ed the weasles have taken over the party... The democrat party has been a lie for many years we have already socialist and communist parties with the democrats been the thrid triplet... when the republican party becomes a lie too as it has.. all the punditry going on here is basically cowardice from doing what really needs to be done. Its obvious what needs to be done.. WHAT!... What the founding fathers SAID WHAT MUST BE DONE in just such a case as america has found herself in... Did I say cowards ?...Ah! yes.. but cowards over speaking the truth without all the smantical psuedo political science.. liberty is preserved first locally by domestic blood shed domestically.. fighting the traitors within...

[inquest]

That's because the point about the media was central to his argument. He said that our primary goal must be to change hearts and minds, and that means control over the media.

The problem, however, is that simply voting for the first R to come down the pike doesn't necessary accomplish that. In fact, if he's only a mild, appeasing sort of Republican (you know the type - "compassionate conservatives"), then it could seriously weaken the conservative media. It wouldn't necessarily weaken the careers of the commentators themselves, but the message most definitely suffers. Why? Because they become complacent, and no longer talk about republican virtues and constitutional government, but instead do nothing about gloat about how they're doing so much better than the Democrats. Unfortunately, that doesn't do much to sway the opinions of large numbers of people towards their cause, and if anything probably turns away the undecided.

Voting for solid conservatives, on the other hand - even if we have to go to a third party to do it - proves that there are people out there who aren't afraid to show their conservative colors, that what they believe is of paramount importance. This will help galvanize conservative media into carrying its message loudly and clearly into the public debate. There is simply no more effective method of doing this than voting for solid conservatives (despite the small risks involved).

[woodyinscc]

What better media platform then the bully pulpit?

[inquest]

Sure, if we had someone who'd make use of it, that'd be great.

[Qwinn]

"Voting for solid conservatives, on the other hand - even if we have to go to a third party to do it - proves that there are people out there who aren't afraid to show their conservative colors, that what they believe is of paramount importance. This will help galvanize conservative media into carrying its message loudly and clearly into the public debate."

Um, the conservative media is not the problem. The conservative media has been producing TREMENDOUS amounts of articles concerning the unease many conservatives feel with spending, immigration, etc. It's hardly a secret in conservative circles. Are you seeing a lack of threads on FR where this is being discussed? I see tons of them, and they're not all vanity threads like this one - they're based on articles from conservative media complaining about the same things you are.

The -rest- of the media is the problem. The bulk of the apathetic public just accepts the liberal line given them on CBS/ABC/NBC/CNN, and the media has gotten away with it while Democrats were the dominant party. Should the Republicans sweep in 2004, even the liberal media won't be able to get away with utterly distorting the conservative message anymore, they simply won't be able to hold onto the ratings.

Bush is co-opting those specific Leftist issues that most attract the voting public. Democrats have nothing else to stand on. He is practically -eliminating- the party of treason, that wants to hand over sovereignty to the U.N., the World Court, Kyoto, etc. If you think it's hard to swing things back to conservatism -now-, just wait till Canadian and French citizens get a vote on our tax rates and social programs.

The collapse of the Dem party isn't just a nice-to-have, it's absolutely -vital- right now. If there isn't a clear and overwhelming mandate -against- them in 2004, things will get much worse very quickly, believe me.

By the way, I believe you said that the right message will be sent if you vote for the Constitution party. Well, the Canadian conservative party split in two over the exact same kind of reasons you cite here. Look how well that's paid off for them, and look at what message it sent. They've had a massive liberal majority for over a decade, despite a solid half of their population being conservative. DON'T TURN THE U.S. INTO CANADA!

When the Dem party has been marginalized, THEN it can become time to make a stink about where the Republicans have gone wrong (and -that- will be the time for a 3rd party to rise up closer to your values). But screwing around before then is dangerous as hell. If there was a psychotic axe-wielding maniac running around in your house, I don't think you'd hesitate to call your local police even if you did think there was some corruption going on in the department. Or would you?

Qwinn

[woodyinscc]

I don't think you'd hesitate to call your local police even if you did think there was some corruption going on in the department. Or would you

Great analogy LOL!!

[Consort]

Understand now? I'm sorry for not spelling it out for you.

It just keeps getting worse.

[gatorbait]

Regretfully we may have to give up the white house, the congress and or the Senate in order to send the message that we are GOING to be heard, or the Republicans are GOING to be out of office.. Again.
Geeze.


Wasn't the above sentiment expressed in 92 by the Perotistas? I do believe it was .In fact, wasn't that same philosophy bandied about in Washington State regarding the election of Maria Cantthinkwell? I do believe it is , in fact, that same kind of clear ,well thought out reasoning..

[HardStarboard]

>>>I would never do anything to hurt his chances of winning but I would rather get a message to the Whitehouse <<<

I thought the same thing when I voted Perot in..what 92? Yep....and we had Clinton for 8 freepin years! Politics is a funny thing....never count on your vote not counting on for what you voted for.

>>>but- how do we register our disappointment with the way <<<

Write a letter and send it in with a donation to his campaign. That's not to hard is it?

[Consort]

Wasn't the above sentiment expressed in 92...

Yes, and it looks like the Necro-Conservatve death wish is still alive and well.

[gatorbait]

Yes, and it looks like the Necro-Conservatve death wish is still alive and well.


I keep waiting to see the lesson that we are supposed to be learning Seriously, where the outraged and principled in 1996? Oh that's right; Dole wasn't conservative enough or whatever enough, so, four more years of a National embarrassment and an international disaster. Yessir, I think those ultra principled sure taught the nation a lesson.