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Was Jesus Actually Born Yesterday?
WND.com ^ | 12-26-03 | Farah, Joseph

Posted on 12/26/2003 10:17:02 AM PST by Theodore R.

Was Jesus actually born yesterday?

Posted: December 26, 2003 1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

Yesterday, millions of Christians around the world celebrated the birth of the One they believe to be the Savior of the world, the Prince of Peace, the Son of God – Jesus of Nazareth.

Jesus is called many things in the Bible. One of His names is the Lamb of God. And while no one is quite sure exactly when Jesus was born, I believe that name may actually lend credence to the birth date of Dec. 25.

I know what you skeptics are going to say. Dec. 25 was chosen by church leaders because it coincided with pagan festivities. It was a way of hijacking those customs and traditions – a way of redeeming them.

You may be right.

But hear me out. I'm going to tell you why Dec. 25 could well be the actual birthday of the Messiah. First, let's review the most descriptive and familiar of the Christmas stories from the Bible.

There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.

And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course, According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.

And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense. And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.

And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, "Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John."

– Luke 1:5-13 KJV

The story continues, with Zacharias remaining in the temple and fulfilling his duties as priest. Only after "the days of his ministration were accomplished" did Zacharias return home, where his wife, Elisabeth, conceived, "and hid herself five months."

And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And the angel came in unto her, and said, "Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women."

And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

And the angel said unto her, "Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

Then said Mary unto the angel, "How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?"

And the angel answered and said unto her, "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. For with God nothing shall be impossible."

And Mary said, "Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word." And the angel departed from her. And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Judah; And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.

And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, "Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy."

– Luke 1:26-44

Notice the details pointing to the approximate time when Jesus was conceived and born.

"What are you talking about, Farah?" you're probably asking yourself.

We've learned that Zacharias was a priest of the course of Abia and that he fulfilled his duties before going home and impregnating his wife. In I Chronicles 24:1-10, we learn that the priestly duties were established about 1,000 years earlier. They included 24 courses and were numbered by drawing lots – 12 courses for sanctuary service and 12 for the government of the house of God.

Priests would serve during a month starting with the Hebrew months of Nisan, which can begin anytime between early March and early April. The sons of Abija, the Old Testament spelling for Abia, were in the eighth course, which would mean Zacharias would likely have ministered during the eighth month of the Hebrew calendar, starting as early as the fifth day of our month of October. That would place the likely time of John the Baptist's conception toward the end of October.

Elisabeth then hid herself for five months. Sometime, perhaps, around March 15-April 15, the angel appeared to Mary. For the sake of argument, let's say this happened on or about April 1. A normal gestation period of 270 days would have resulted in the birth of Jesus on or about Dec. 25.

That is a very plausible scenario. Still not convinced? How about this?

Let's go back to Luke, Chapter 2, verse 8: "And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night."

Shepherds spent the night in the fields with their sheep when the lambs are born. The mating cycle begins after June 21. The normal gestation period is five months, so the ewes start giving birth in mid-December.

And that's where "the Lamb of God" comes into the picture. Jesus was likened to a lamb who was brought into this world to be slaughtered for our sins. Wouldn't it make sense that He was born around the same time that the innocent little lambs were being born in the fields nearby?

The more I read the Bible, the more I am stunned by such little "coincidences." The Bible is full of them. It makes perfect sense to me. I hope you agree.

Yet, it doesn't really matter exactly when Jesus was born. The important thing, as we Christians celebrate that birth, is that He was born – that He did come, that He later laid down His life for us and that He will come again.

Merry Christmas to all of you, dear readers. May the joy of His coming be with you today, tomorrow and for all eternity.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: christians; christmas; dec25; elisabeth; herod; jesus; johnthebaptist; joseph; mary; zacharia
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1 posted on 12/26/2003 10:17:02 AM PST by Theodore R.
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To: Theodore R.
On What Day Was Jesus Born?




While much of the world celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ on the 25th of December, can the actual day of Jesus' birth be determined from scripture? This question will be explored in some detail, and will yield a result that is quite intriguing. The first passage we will consider begins with the father of John the Baptist, Zacharias:

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

Luke 1:8 And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course, ...

Luke 1:23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house.
Luke 1:24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, ...

The clue given to us here is that Zacharias was of the "course" of Abia.

The 24 Courses of the Temple Priesthood.

King David on God's instructions (1 Chr 28:11-13) had divided the sons of Aaron into 24 groups (1 Chr 24:1-4), to setup a schedule by which the Temple of the Lord could be staffed with priests all year round in an orderly manner. After the 24 groups of priests were established, lots were drawn to determine the sequence in which each group would serve in the Temple. (1 Chr 24: 7-19). That sequence is as follows:

1 Chr 24:7 1. Jehoiarib 2. Jedaiah
1 Chr 24:8 3. Harim 4. Seorim
1 Chr 24:9 5. Malchijah 6. Mijamin
1 Chr 24:10 7. Hakkoz 8. Abijah
1 Chr 24:11 9. Jeshuah 10. Shecaniah
1 Chr 24:12 11. Eliashib 12. Jakim
1 Chr 24:13 13. Huppah 14. Jeshebeab
1 Chr 24:14 15. Bilgah 16. Immer
1 Chr 24:15 17. Hezir 18. Aphses
1 Chr 24:16 19. Pethahiah 20. Jehezekel
1 Chr 24:17 21. Jachim 22. Gamul
1 Chr 24:18 23. Delaiah 24. Maaziah

1 Chr 24:19 These were the orderings of them in their service to come into the house of the LORD, according to their manner, under Aaron their father, as the LORD God of Israel had commanded him.

Now each one of the 24 "courses" of priests would begin and end their service in the Temple on the Sabbath, a tour of duty being for one week (2 Chr 23:8, 1 Chr 9:25). On three occasions during the year, all the men of Israel were required to travel to Jerusalem for festivals of the Lord, so on those occasions all the priests would be needed in the Temple to accommodate the crowds. Those three festivals were Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, and Tabernacles (Deut 16:16).

The Yearly Cycle of Service in the Temple.

The Jewish calendar begins in the spring, during the month of Nisan, so the first "course" of priests, would be that of the family of Jehoiarib, who would serve for seven days. The second week would then be the responsibility of the family of Jedaiah. The third week would be the feast of Unleavened Bread, and all priests would be present for service. Then the schedule would resume with the third course of priests, the family of Harim. By this plan, when the 24th course was completed, the general cycle of courses would repeat. This schedule would cover 51 weeks or 357 days, enough for the lunar Jewish calendar (about 354 days). So, in a period of a year, each group of priests would serve in the Temple twice on their scheduled course, in addition to the 3 major festivals, for a total of about five weeks of duty.

The Conception of John the Baptist.

Now back to Zacharias, the father of John the Baptist.

Luke 1:23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house.
Luke 1:24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, ...

Beginning with the first month, Nisan, in the spring (March-April), the schedule of the priest's courses would result with Zacharias serving during the 10th week of the year. This is because he was a member of the course of Abia (Abijah), the 8th course, and both the Feast of Unleavened Bread (15-21 Nisan) and Pentecost (6 Sivan) would have occurred before his scheduled duty. This places Zacharias' administration in the Temple as beginning on the second Sabbath of the third month, Sivan (May-June).

1st Month 2nd Month 3rd Month
Abib - Nisan
(March - April) Zif - Iyyar
(April - May) Sivan
(May - June)
First
Week Jehoiarib (1) Seorim (4) All Priests
(Pentecost)
Second
Week Jedaiah (2) Malchijah (5) Abijah (8)
Third
Week All Priests
(Feast of Unleavened Bread) Mijamin (6) Jeshuah (9)
Fourth
Week Harim (3) Hakkoz (7) Shecaniah (10)

Having completed his Temple service on the third Sabbath of Sivan, Zacharias returned home and soon conceived his son John. So John the Baptist was probably conceived shortly after the third Sabbath of the month of Sivan.

The Conception of Jesus Christ.

Now the reason that the information about John is important, is because according to Luke, Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the sixth month of Elisabeth's pregnancy:

Luke 1:24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,
Luke 1:25 Thus hath the Lord dealt with me in the days wherein he looked on me, to take away my reproach among men.
Luke 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
Luke 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Note that verse 26 above refers to the sixth month of Elisabeth's pregnancy, not Elul, the sixth month of the Hebrew calendar, and this is made plain by the context of verse 24 and again in verse 36:

Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

Now working from the information about John's conception late in the third month, Sivan, and advancing six months, we arrive late in the 9th month of Kislev (Nov-Dec) for the time frame for the conception of Jesus. It is notable here that the first day of the Jewish festival of Hanukkah, the Festival of Lights, is celebrated on the 25th day of Kislev, and Jesus is called the light of the world (John 8:12, 9:5, 12:46). This does not appear to be a mere coincidence. In the book of John, Hanukkah is called the feast of dedication (John 10:22). Hanukkah is an eight day festival, celebrating the relighting of the menorah in the rededicated Temple, which according to the story, stayed lit miraculously for eight days on only one day's supply of oil.

The Birth of John the Baptist.

Based on a conception shortly after the third Sabbath of the month of Sivan, projecting forward an average term of about 10 lunar months (40 weeks), we arrive in the month of Nisan. It would appear that John the Baptist may have been born in the middle of the month, which would coincide with Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread. It is interesting to note, that even today, it is customary for the Jews to set out a special goblet of wine during the Passover Seder meal, in anticipation of the arrival of Elijah that week, which is based on the prophecy of Malachi:

Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Jesus identified John as the "Elijah" that the Jews had expected:

Mat 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Mat 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

The angel that appeared to Zacharias in the temple also indicated that John would be the expected "Elias":

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

So then, the Feast of Unleavened Bread begins on the 15th day of the 1st month, Nisan, and this is a likely date for the birth of John the Baptist, the expected "Elijah".

The Birth of Jesus Christ.

Since Jesus was conceived six months after John the Baptist, and we have established a likely date for John's birth, we need only move six months farther down the Jewish calender to arrive at a likely date for the birth of Jesus. From the 15th day of the 1st month, Nisan, we go to the 15th day of the 7th month, Tishri. And what do we find on that date? It is the festival of Tabernacles! The 15th day of Tishri begins the third and last festival of the year to which all the men of Israel were to gather in Jerusalem for Temple services. (Lev 23:34)

Immanuel.

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Immanuel means "God with us". The Son of God had come to dwell with, or tabernacle on earth with His people.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The word in the Hebrew for dwelt is succah and the name of the Feast of Tabernacles in Hebrew is Sukkot, a festival of rejoicing and celebration:

Luke 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
Luke 2:8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
Luke 2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
Luke 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Why was there no room at the inn? Bethlehem is only about 5 miles from Jerusalem, and all the men of Israel had come to attend the festival of Tabernacles as required by the law of Moses. Every room for miles around Jerusalem would have been already taken by pilgrims, so all that Mary and Joseph could find for shelter was a stable.

Also of note is the fact that the Feast of Tabernacles is an eight day feast (Lev 23:36, 39). Why eight days? It may be because an infant was dedicated to God by performing circumcision on the eighth day after birth:

Luke 2:21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

So the infant Jesus would have been circumcised on the eighth and last day of the Feast of Tabernacles, a Sabbath day. The Jews today consider this a separate festival from Tabernacles, and they call it Shemini Atzeret.

Conclusion

So, if you have followed the above reasoning, based on the scriptural evidence, a case can apparently be made that Jesus Christ was born on the 15th day of the month of Tishri, on the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles, which corresponds to the September - October timeframe of our present calendar!

Jewish month Begins the
New moon of John the Baptist Jesus
1. Abib / Nisan March-April Birth of John
15 Nisan 4

2. Zif / Iyyar April-May 5
3. Sivan May-June Conception of John
after 3rd Sabbath
6
4. Tammuz June-July 1 7
5. Ab / Av July-August 2 8
6. Elul August-September 3 9
7. Ethanim / Tishri September-October 4
Birth of Jesus
15 Tishri

8. Bul / Marheshvan / Heshvan October-November 5

9. Chisleu / Chislev / Kislev November-December 6
Conception of Jesus
25 Kislev ?

10. Tebeth / Tevet December-January 7 1
11. Shebat / Shevat January-February 8 2
12. Adar February-March 9 3

Tabernacles Future Fulfillment

It is also interesting to note the Tabernacles was a feast in ingathering of the Harvest (Exo 23:16 and 34:22). If Jesus' first coming was indeed on 15 Tishri, the first day of Tabernacles, then it is quite reasonable to presume that the harvest of this earth, the ingathering of the second coming of Jesus Christ, will also occur on precisely the same date. The unknown factor would be the year that this would happen.


Sorry, got it in an e-mail, no link
2 posted on 12/26/2003 10:28:02 AM PST by RaceBannon
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To: Theodore R.
Was Jesus Actually Born Yesterday?

No, but the manner in which many people conduct their lives and believe they're getting away with it, they might think so...

3 posted on 12/26/2003 11:14:47 AM PST by mikrofon (God's Peace be with you all)
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To: Theodore R.
Was Jesus actually born yesterday?

A lot of time spent simply on a matter of historical trivia. The relevent statement is:

Jesus was actually born.

The exact day does not really matter, does it?

4 posted on 12/26/2003 11:24:46 AM PST by Michael.SF. ('America is not safer because of the capture of Sadam' - Howard Dean, Democrat)
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To: RaceBannon
Jesus was NOT born on December 25th.

A CHRISTmas Celebration Online --- Celebrate CHRIST Anytime!

http://www.truthusa.com/CHRISTmas.html
5 posted on 12/26/2003 12:40:07 PM PST by Cindy
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To: RaceBannon
Conception of Jesus
25 Kislev ?

2 posted on 12/26/2003 11:28:02 AM MST by RaceBannon


Many believe the the Light of the World

entered the world on Festival of Light

Messianic Significance of Chanukah


a bondslave to the Christ

chuck

6 posted on 12/26/2003 1:29:42 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>)
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To: Theodore R.
Was Jesus Actually Born Yesterday?

Personally, I think he was born at least 2000 years ago.

7 posted on 12/26/2003 1:37:58 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: Theodore R.
Probably not, the only time that the shepards are likely tostay out all night with the flock is in the early spring when the sheep give birth to the new lambs. He was most likely born closer to Easter then Christmas. But it is more important that we celebrate him and his gift to mankind then when we celebrate it.
8 posted on 12/26/2003 1:38:48 PM PST by RiflemanSharpe (An American for a more socially and fiscally conservation America!)
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To: Theodore R.; RaceBannon
The scripture about the Shepards not having come down from the high country suggests a late summer to early Autumn birth. An Indian summer could have put his birth even later into Autumn. Unless climactic conditions were significantly warmer 2000 years ago, scriptural mention of shepards still being in high country suggests a December 25 birthday as unlikely.

Furthermore, if the date was important, the Bible would have given it.

Therefore, Christmas is an extra-biblical event. A few Christians call it pagan and won't have anything to do with it (some incorrectly cite passages in Jeremiah as proof), others acknowledge its pagan roots but celebrate it as a victory over pagan solstice festivals.

Others who don't know any better think it must be in the bible somewhere but never having read the bible continue in their blissfull state of ignorance.

9 posted on 12/26/2003 1:51:08 PM PST by fso301
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To: Theodore R.
It's not known for sure. But the sceptics who insist that he was NOT born on December 25 can't really prove that any more than one can prove that he was. The exact date isn't a matter of faith.

The date of the Crucifixion can be established, because it was on a Friday, the day before the Passover and the Sabbath, according to the gospel accounts.
10 posted on 12/26/2003 1:53:21 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: joanie-f
Bump.
11 posted on 12/26/2003 2:50:22 PM PST by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: Theodore R.
read later
12 posted on 12/26/2003 4:07:50 PM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: Theodore R.
This Is Appendix 179 From The Companion Bible.
I. Parallel Datings of the Times of Our Lord.

II. Dates of "The Begetting" and The Nativity.

III. "The Course of Abia".

A.M. = Anno Mundi; that is to say, in the year of the world.
B.C. = Before Christ. Reckoned as from 4004 A.M.
A.C. = Anno Christi; that is to say, in the year of Christ. Reckoned from the Nativity, in 4000 A.M. and 749-750 A.U.C.
A.U.C. = Anno Urbis Conditoe; that is to say; the year in which the City (Rome) was founded.


I.
PARALLEL DATINGS OF THE TIMES OF OUR LORD.
A.M. B.C. - A.D. A.C. A.U.C. YEARS OF THE REIGN OF AUGUSTUS (OCTAVIUS). YEARS OF THE REIGN OF TIBERIUS.
3960 44 9
1 43 710
2 42 11
3 41 12
4 40 13
5 39 14 Herod declared king by the Romans, according to Josephus (Ant.xvii. 8 § 1), who states that his death took place thiryt-seven years later, and as he always reckoned his years from Nisan to Nisan (including initial and terminal fractions of Nisan as complete years), the death of Herod would be in 749-750 A.U.C., or 4-3 B.C.
6 38 15
7 37 16
8 36 17
9 35 18
3970 34 19
1 33 720
2 32 21
3 Battle of Actium 31 722 1st year of Octavius.
4 30 Decree of Senate of Rome. 23 2
5 29 24 3
6 28 25 4
7 27 26 5 AUGUSTUS (Octavius) IMPERATOR
8 26 27 6
9 25 28 7
3980 24 29 8
1 23 730 9
2 22 31 10
3 21 32 11
4 20 33 12
5 19 34 13
6 18 35 14
7 17 36 15
8 16 37 16
9 15 38 17
3990 14 39 18
1 13 740 19
2 12 41 20
3 11 42 21
4 10 43 22
5 9 44 23
6 8 45 24
7 7 46 25
8 6 47 26
9 {5} 48 27
(See Appendix 50) 4000 THE NATIVITY 1st taxing or Census Luke 2:2
{4 YEARS OF THE AGE OF THE LORD
0} 749
Herod d.c end of January 3 B.C. 28
Our Lord birth 15th Tisri = 29th September 4 B.C.
{1 {3 Quirinus' First Governorship. 1} 750 29
{2 {2 2} 51 30
3 {1 3} 52 31
4004 0 A.D. 4 753 32 A.D. reckoning begins, owing to the mistake of Dionysius Exiguus in arranging the Calendar of the Christian Era in A.D. 532.
5 1 5 54 33
6 2 6 55 34
7 3 7 56 35
8 4 8 57 36
9 5 9 58 37
4010 6 10 59 38
1 7 11 760 39
2 8 12 Christ in the Temple 61 40
3 9 13 62 41
4 2nd Census (?) 10 14 63 42 YEARS OF THE REIGN OF TIBERIUS.
5 11 15 64 43
6 12 16 65 44 1st yr. of Tiberius' 1 joint reign with Augustus.
7 13 17 66 45 2
8 14 18 67 19th August 46 Augustus dies. 3 Tiberius alone.
9 15 19 68 4
4020 16 20 69 5
1 17 21 770 6
2 18 22 71 7
3 19 23 72 8
4 20 24 73 9
5 21 25 74 10
6 22 26 75 11
7 23 27 76 12
8 3rd Census (?) 24 28 77 13 3rd Census this year (?).
9 25 29 78 14
4030 26
The Ministry 30
of our 779
Lord begins
(Luke 3:23) in the 15th
year of Tiberius.
1 27 31 780 16
2 28 32 81 17
ANNO MUNDI
4033 THE CRUCIFIXION
29 A.D.THE LORD
33 YEARS OF AGE. A.U.C. ROMAN RECKONING.
782 THE 18th
year of Tiberius.



II.
DATES OF "THE BEGETTING" (he gennesis, Matthew 1:18,20 (see Revised Version marg.). John 1:14-) OF OUR LORD AND HIS BIRTH. (Luke 2:7. John 1:-14.)

TEBETH (29) 1 =25-26 DECEMBER (7) (5 B.C.).
2 = 26-27
3 = 27-28
4 = 28-29
5 = 29-30
6 = 30-31
7 = 31-1
8 = 1-2 JANUARY (31) (4 B.C.).
9 = 2-3
10 = 3-4
11 = 4-5
12 = 5-6
13 = 6-7
14 = 7-8
15 = 8-9
16 = 9-10
17 = 10-11
18 = 11-12
19 = 12-13
20 = 13-14
21 = 14-15
22 = 15-16
23 = 16-17
24 = 17-18
25 = 18-19
26 = 19-20
27 = 20-21
28 = 21-22
29 = 22-23
SEBAT (30) 1 = 23-24
2 = 24-25
3 = 25-26
4 = 26-27
5 = 27-28
6 = 28-29
7 = 29-30
8 = 30-31
9 = 31-1
10 = 1-2 FEBUARY (29) (Leap Year)
11 = 2-3
12 = 3-4
13 = 4-5
14 = 5-6
15 = 6-7
16 = 7-8
17 = 8-9
18 = 9-10
19 = 10-11
20 = 11-12
21 = 12-13
22 = 13-14
23 = 14-15
24 = 15-16
25 = 16-17
26 = 17-18
27 = 18-19
28 = 19-20
29 = 20-21
30 = 21-22
ADAR (29) 1 = 22-23
2 = 23-24
3 = 24-25
4 = 25-26
5 = 26-27
6 = 27-28
7 = 28-29
8 = 29-1
9 = 1-2 MARCH (31)
10 = 2-3
11 = 3-4
12 = 4-5
13 = 5-6
14 = 6-7
15 = 7-8
16 = 8-9
17 = 9-10
18 = 10-11
19 = 11-12
__________
78 | 78
20 = 12-13
21 = 13-14
22 = 14-15
23 = 15-16
24 = 16-17
25 = 17-18
26 = 18-19
27 = 19-20
28 = 20-21
29 = 21-22
NISAN (30) 1 = 22-23
2 = 23-24
3 = 24-25
4 = 25-26
5 = 26-27
6 = 27-28
7 = 28-29
8 = 29-30
9 = 30-31
10 = 31-1
11 = 1-2 APRIL (30)
12 = 2-3
13 = 3-4
14 = 4-5
15 = 5-6
16 = 6-7
17 = 7-8
18 = 8-9
19 = 9-10
20 = 10-11
21 = 11-12
22 = 12-13
23 = 13-14
24 = 14-15
25 = 15-16
26 = 16-17
27 = 17-18
28 = 18-19
29 = 19-20
30 = 20-21
ZIF (29) 1 = 21-22
2 = 22-23
3 = 23-24
4 = 24-25
5 = 25-26
6 = 26-27
7 = 27-28
8 = 28-29
9 = 29-30
10 = 30-31
11 = 1-2 MAY (31)
12 = 2-3
13 = 3-4
14 = 4-5
15 = 5-6
16 = 6-7
17 = 7-8
18 = 8-9
19 = 9-10
20 = 10-11
21 = 11-12
22 = 12-13
23 = 13-14
24 = 14-15
25 = 15-16
26 = 16-17
27 = 17-18
28 = 18-19
29 = 19-20
SIVAN (30) 1 = 20-21
2 = 21-22
3 = 22-23
4 = 23-24
5 = 24-25
6 = 25-26
7 = 26-27
8 = 27-28
9 = 28-29
________
156 | 156
10 = 29-30
11 = 30-31
12 = 31-1
13 = 1-2 JUNE (30)
14 = 2-3
15 = 3-4
16 = 4-5
17 = 5-6
18 = 6-7
19 = 7-8
20 = 8-9
21 = 9-10
22 = 10-11
23 = 11-12
24 = 12-13
25 = 13-14
26 = 14-15
27 = 15-16
28 = 16-17
29 = 17-18
30 = 18-19
THAMMUZ (29) 1 = 19-20
2 = 20-21
3 = 21-22
4 = 22-23
5 = 23-24
6 = 24-25
7 = 25-26
8 = 26-27
9 = 27-28
10 = 28-29
11 = 29-30
12 =30-1
13 = 1-2 JULY (31)
14 = 2-3
15 = 3-4
16 = 4-5
17 = 5-6
18 = 6-7
19 = 7-8
20 = 8-9
21 = 9-10
22 = 10-11
23 = 11-12
24 = 12-13
25 = 13-14
26 = 14-15
27 = 15-16
28 = 16-17
29 = 17-18
AB (30) 1 = 18-19
2 = 19-20
3 = 20-21
4 = 21-22
5 = 22-23
6 = 23-24
7 = 24-25
8 = 25-26
9 = 26-27
10 = 27-28
11 = 28-29
12 = 29-30
13 = 30-31
14 = 31-1
15 = 1-2 AUGUST (31)
16 = 2-3
17 = 3-4
18 = 4-5
19 = 5-6
20 = 6-7
21 = 7-8
22 = 8-9
23 = 9-10
24 = 10-11
25 = 11-12
26 = 12-13
27 = 13-14
28 = 14-15
__________
234 | 234
29 = 15-16
30 = 16-17
ELUL (29) 1 = 17-18
2 = 18-19
3 = 19-20
4 = 20-21
5 = 21-22
6 = 22-23
7 = 23-24
8 = 24-25
9 = 25-26
10 = 26-27
11 = 27-28
12 = 28-29
13 = 29-30
14 = 30-31
15 = 31-1 SEPTEMBER (29)
16 = 1-2
17 = 2-3
18 = 3-4
19 = 4-5
20 = 5-6
21 = 6-7
22 = 7-8
23 = 8-9
24 = 9-10
25 = 10-11
26 = 11-12
27 = 12-13
28 = 13-14
29 = 14-15
ETHANIM (TISRI) (15) 1 = 15-16
2 = 16-17
3 = 17-18
4 = 18-19
5 = 19-20
6 = 20-21
7 = 21-22
8 = 22-23
9 = 23-24
10 = 24-25
11 = 25-26
12 = 26-27
13 = 27-28
14 = 28-29
ETHANIM OR (TISRI) 15 = 29-30 SEPTEMBER
____________
Days on Jewish reckoning, 280 | 280 days, on Gentile reckoning.
_____ _____
According to Jewish reckoning. According to Gentile (Western) reckoning.
TEBETH 29 days DECEMBER 7 days
SEBAT 30 days JANUARY 31 days
ADAR 29 days FEBUARY 29 days
NISAN 30 days MARCH 31 days
ZIF 29 days APRIL 30 days
SIVAN 30 days MAY 31 days
THAMMUZ 29 days JUNE 30 days
AB 30 days JULY 31 days
ELUL 29 days AUGUST 31 days
ETHANIM 15 days SEPTEMBER 29 days
__________ __________
280 280





280 days = 40 weeks - forty sevens, the perfect period of human gestation [7x5x8=280].
The Component Numbers of 280 are highly significant in this connection.
7 denotes Spiritual Perfection.
5 denotes Divine Grace.
8 denotes Resurrection, Regeneration, etc. (Appendix 10).
1st TEBETH = 25th December (5 B.C.)
15th ETHANIM = 29th September (4 B.C.).
From 1st TEBETH to 15th ETHANIM (inclusive) = 280 days.
From 25th DECEMBER (5 B.C .) to 29th SEPTEMBER (4 B.C.) = 280 days.


It thus appears without the shadow of a doubt that the day assigned to the Birth of the Lord, videlicet: December 25, was the day on which He was "begotten of the Holy Ghost", that is to say, by pneuma hagion = divine power (Matthew 1:18, 20 marg.), and His birth took place on the 15th of Ethanim, September 29, in the year following, thus making beautifully clear the meaning of John 1:14,"The Word became flesh" (Matthew 1:18,20) on 1st Tebeth or December 25 (5 B.C.), "and tabernacled (Greek eskenosen) with us", on 15th of Ethanim or September 29 (4 B.C.).
The 15th of Ethanim (or Tisri) was the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles. The Circumcision therefore took place on the eighth day of the Feast = 22nd Ethanim = October 6-7 (Leviticus 23:33-43). So that these two momentous events fall into their proper place and order, and the real reason is made clear why the 25th of December is associated with our Lord, and was set apart by the Apostolic Church to commemorate the stupendous event of the "Word becoming flesh" - and not, as we have for so long been led to suppose, the commemoration of a pagon festival.


An overwhelmingly strong argument in favour of the correctness of this view lies in the fact that the date of "the Festival of Michael and All Angels" has been from very early times the 29th day of September, on Gentile (Western) reckoning.
But "the Church" even then had lost sight of the reason why this date rather than any other in the Calendar should be so indissolubly associated with the great Angelic Festival.

The following expresses the almost universal knowledge or rather want of knowledge of "Christendom" on the subject: "We pass on now to consider, in the third place, the commemoration of September 29, the festival of Michaelmas, par excellence. It does not appear at all certain what was the original special idea of the commemoration of this day" (Smith Dictionary of Chr. Antiqq. (1893), volume ii, page 1177 (3) ).

A reference, however, to the Table and statements above, make the "original special idea" why the Festival of "Michael and All Angels" is held on September 29 abundantly clear. Our Lord was born on that day, the first day of the "Feast of Tabernacle" (Leviticus 23:39). This was on the fifteenth day of the seventh Jewish month called Tisri, or Ethanim (Appendix 51. 5), corresponding to our September 29 (of the year 4 B.C.).

The "Begetting" (gennesis) Day of the Lord was announced by the Angel Gabriel. See notes on Daniel 8:16, and Luke 1:19.

The "Birth" Day, by "(the) Angel of the Lord", unnamed in either Matthew and Luke.

That this Angelic Being was "Michael the Archangel" (of Jude 9), and "Mika'el hassar haggadol-"Michael the Great Prince"-of Daniel 12:1, seems clear for the following reason: If, "when again (yet future) He bringeth the First-begotten into the world, He saith, Let all the Angels of God worship Him" (Hebrews 1:6; quoting Psalm 97:6)-then this must include the great Archangel Michael himself. By parity of reasoning, on the First "bringing" into the world of the only begotten Son, the Archangel must have been present. And the tremendous announcement to the shepherds, that the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6) was on earth in the person of the Babe of Bethlehem, must therefore have been made by the same head of the heavenly host (Luke 2:9-14). In mundane affairs, announcement of supremest importance (of Kings, etc.) are invariably conveyed through the most exalted personage in the realm. The point need not be laboured.


The fact of the Birth of our Lord having been revealed to the shepherds by the Archangel Michael on the 15th of Tisri (or Ethtanim), corresponding to September 29, 4 B.C.-the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles-must have been known to believers in the Apostolic Age. But "the mystery of iniquity" which was "already working" in Paul's day (2 Thessalonians 2:7) quickly enshrouded this and the other great fact of the Jewish month Tebeth (corresponding to December 25, 5 B.C.)-as well as other connected with His sojourn on earth,4-in a rising mist of obscurity in which they have ever since been lost.
The earliest allusion to December 25 (modern reckoning) as the date for the Nativity is found in the Stromata of Clement of Alexandria, about the beginning of the third century A.D. (See note 3).5

That "Christmas" was a pagan festival long before the time of our Lord is beyond doubt. In Egypt Horus (or Harpocrates 6), the son of Isis (Queen of Heaven), was born about the time of the winter solstice.7 By the time of the early part of the fourth century A.D., the real reason for observing Christmas as the date for the miraculous "begetting" of Matthew 1:18 and "the Word becoming flesh" of John 1:14 had been lost sight of. The policy of Constantine, and his Edict of Milan, by establishing universal freedom of religion furthered this. When many of the followers of the old pagan systems-the vast majority of the empire, it must be remembered- adopted the Christian religion as a cult, which Constantine had made fashionable, and the "Church" became the Church of the Roman Empire, they brought in with them, among a number of other things emanating from Egypt and Babylon, the various Festival Days of the old "religious". Thus "Chirstmas Day," the birthday of the Egyptian Horus (Osiris), became gradually substituted for the real Natalis Domini of our blessed Saviour, videlicet: September 29,or Michaelmas Day.


If, however, we realize that the centre of gravity, so to speak, of what we call the Incarnation is the Incarnation itself- the wondrous fact of the Divine "begetting", when "the Word became flesh" (see Matthew 1:18 and John 1:14) - and that this is to be associated with December 25 instead of March - as for 1,600 years Christendom has been led to believe - then "Christmas" will be seen in quite another light, and many who have hitherto been troubled with scruples concerning the day being, as they have been taught, the anniversary of a Pagan festival, will be enabled to worship on that Day without alloy of doubt, as the time when the stupendous miracle which is the foundation stone of the Christian faith, came to pass.
The "Annunciation" by the Angel Gabriel marked the gennesis of Matthew 1:18, and the first words of John 1:14.

The announcement to the shepherds by the Archangel Michael marked the Birth of our Lord. John 1:14 is read as though "the Word became flesh (Revised Version), and dwelt among us", were one and the same thing where - as they are two clauses.

The paragraph should read thus:


"And the Word became flesh; (Greek ho logos sarx egeneto.)


And tabernacled with (or among) us." (Greek kai eskenosen en hemin).
The word tabernacled here (preserved in Revised Version marg.) receives beautiful significance from the knowledge that "the Lord of Glory" was "found in fashion as a man" , and thus tabernacling in human flesh. And in turn it shows in equally beautiful significance that our Lord was born on the first day of the great Jewish Feast of Tabernacles, videlicet: the 15th of Tisri, corresponding to September 29, 4 B.C. (modern reckoning).
The circumcision of our Lord took place therefore on the eighth day, the last day of the Feast, the "Great Day of the Feast" of John 7:37 ("Tabernacles" had eight days. The Feast of Unleavened Bread had seven days, and Pentecost one. See Leviticus 23).


The main arguments against the Nativity having taken place in December may be set forth very simply:

(i) The extreme improbability, amounting almost to impossibility, that Mary, under such circumstances, could have undertaken a journey of about 70 miles (as the crow flies), through a hill district averaging some 3,000 feet above sea - level, in the depth of winter:

(ii) Shepherds and their flocks would not be found "abiding" (Greek agrauleo) in the open fields at night in December (Tebeth), for the paramount reason that there would be no pasturage at that time. It was the custom then (as now) to withdraw the flocks during the month Marchesvan (October-November)8 from the open districts and house them for the winter.

(iii) The Roman authorities in imposing such a "census taking" for the hated and unpopular "foreign" tax would not have enforced the imperial decree (Luke 2:1) at the most inconvenient and inclement season of the year, by compelling the people to enroll themselves at their respective "cities" in December. In such a case they would naturally choose the "line" of least resistance", and select a time of year that would cause least friction, and interference with the habits and pursuits of the Jewish people. This would be in the autumn, when the agricultural round of the year was complete, and the people generally more or less at liberty to take advantage, as we know many did, of the opportunity of "going up" to Jerusalem for the "Feast of Tabernacles" (compare John 7:8-10, etc.), the crowning Feast of the Jewish year.
To take advantage of such a time would be to the Romans the simplest and most natural policy, whereas to attempt to enforce the Edict of Registration for the purposes of Imperial taxation in the depth of winter, - when travelling for such a purpose would have been deeply resented, and perhaps have brought about a revolt,-would never have been attempted by such an astute ruler as Augustus.


With regard to the other two "Quarter Days", June 24, March 25, these are both associated with the miraculous (Luke 1:7) "conception" and the birth of the Forerunner, as December 25 and September 29 are with our Lord's miraculous "Begetting" and Birth; and are therefore connected with "the Course of Abiah."

III.
"THE COURSE OF ABIA" (Luke 1:5).
This was the eighth of the priestly courses of ministration in the Temple (1 Chronicles 24:10), and occurred, as did the others, twice in the year.

The "Courses"were changed every week, beginning each with a Sabbath. The reckoning commenced on the 22nd day of Tisri or Ethanim (Appendix 51. 5). This was the eighth and last day of the Feast of Tabernacles = the "Great Day of the Feast" (John 7:37), and was a Sabbath (Leviticus 23:39).

The first course fell by lot to Jehoiarib, and the eighth to Abia or Abijah (1 Chronicles 24:10).

Bearing in mind that all the courses served together at the three Great Feasts, the dates for the two yearly "ministrations" of Abiah will be seen to fall as follows:

The first 9 ministration was from 12-18 Chisleu = December 6-12.

The second ministration was from 12-18 Sivan = June 13-19.

The announcement therefore to Zacharias in the Temple as to the conception of John the Baptist took place between 12-18 SIVAN (June 13-19), in the year 5 B.C. After finishing his "ministration", the aged priest "departed to his own house" (Luke 1:23), which was in a city10 in "the hill country" of Juda (verse 39).

The day following the end of the "Course of Abia" being a Sabbath (Sivan 19), he would not be able to leave Jerusalem before the 20th.

The thirty miles journey would probably occupy, for an old man, a couple of days at least. He would therefore arrive at his house on the 21st or 22nd. This leaves ample time for the miraculous "conception" of Elizabeth to take place on or about 23rd of SIVAN 11 - which would correspond to June 23-24 of that year. The fact of the conception and its date would necessarily be known at the time and afterwards, and hence the 23rd SIVAN would henceforth be associated with the conception of John Baptist as the 1st TEBETH would be with that of our Lord.

But the same influences that speedily obscured and presently obliterated the real dates of our Lord's "Begetting" and Birth, were also at work with regard to those of the Forerunner, and with the same results. As soon as the true Birth day of Christ had been shifted from its proper date, videlicet: the 15th of Tisri (September 29), and a Festival Day from the Pagan Calendars substituted for it (videlicet: December 25), then everything else had to be altered too.

Hence "Lady Day" in association with March 25 (new style) became necessarily connected with the Annunciation. And June 24 made its appearance, as it still is in our Calendar, as the date of "the Nativity of John the Baptist", instead of, as it really is, the date of his miraculous conception.

The Four "Quarter Days" may therefore be set forth thus: first in the chronological order of the events with which they are associated, videlicet:


The conception of John Baptist on or about 23rd SIVAN = June 24 in the year 5 B.C.
The Gennesis (Begetting) of our Lord on or about 1st TEBETH = December 25 in the year 5 B.C.
The birth of John Baptist on or about 4th-7th NISAN = March 25-28 in the year 4 B.C.
The birth of our Lord on or about 15th TISRI = September 29 in the year 4 B.C.

or, placing the two sets together naturally:-


{The conception of John 23rd SIVAN = June 23-24 in the year 5 B.C.
{The birth of John 7th NISAN = March 28-29 in the year 4 B.C.
{The Miraculous "Begetting" 1st TEBETH = December 25 in the year 5 B.C.
{The NATIVITY 15th TISRI = September 29 in the year 4 B.C.


NOTES
1 ZUMPT fixes Quirinus' (Cyrenius') First Governorship as 4 B.C. to 1 B.C. Justin Martyr thrice says that our Lord was born under Quirinus (Apol. 1. XXXIV, page 37; XLVI, page 46; Dial. LXXVIII, page 195. Clarks edition).

2 According to some, Augustus died August 19, A.D. 14. Therefore if Tiberius' co-regnancy was for two years before Augustus' death his first year was 765 A.U.C. = 12 A.D.. His fifteenth year consequently was A.U.C. 779 = 26 A.D. = 4030 A.M. and A.C. 30, for our Lord was thirty years of age when He begun His Ministry (Luke 3:23). Clement of Alexandria gives the years of Augustus' reign as being 43-46, according to different reckonings in his day.

3 According to Clement of Alexandria (compare A.D. 190-220) "Our Lord was born in the twenty-eighth year when first the census was ordered to be taken in the reign of Augustus" (Stromata, Book i, see Clark's edition i. pages 444-445). If that is correct, and it is true that a Census was taken every fourteen years, then the next would fall in A.D. 10, and the succeeding one would have been due A.D. 24.

4 Notably the day of the crucifixion, etc (see Appendix 156 and Appendix 165).

5 His statements are, however, very vague, and he mentions several dates claimed by others as correct.

6 Osiris reincarnated.

7 See Wilkinson's Ancient Egyptians, Volume III, page 79 (Birch's edition).

8 It is true that the Lebanon shepherds are in the habit of keeping their flocks alive during the winter months, by cutting down branches of trees in the forests in that district, to feed the sheep on the leaves and twigs, when in autumn the pastures are dried up, and in winter, when snow covers the ground (compare Land and Book, page 204), but there is no evidence that the Bethlehem district was afforested in the manner.

9 Reckoning of course from Ethanim or Tisri - the First month of the civil year. The sacred year was six month later, and began on 1st Nisan.

10 The "city" is not named (possibly Juttah, some 30 miles to the south of Jerusalem).

11 The conception of John Baptist was, in view of Luke 1:7, as miraculous as that of Isaac; but it is not necessary to insist upon the complete period of forty sevens in the case of Elizabeth. Therefore the birth of the Forerunner may have been three or four days short of the full two hundred and eighty days, - as indicated in the above table.
13 posted on 12/26/2003 4:17:41 PM PST by BikerTrash
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To: Theodore R.
Catholics celebrate the Feast of the Immaculate Conception on the 8th of December. That always threw me for a curve when I was going to Catholic School..
14 posted on 12/26/2003 4:34:31 PM PST by cardinal4 (Hillary and Clark rhymes with Ft Marcy park...)
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To: BikerTrash
I think your information on line 372 is incorrect!!
15 posted on 12/26/2003 4:36:42 PM PST by RaginRak
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To: cardinal4
A December conception would correspond to a August/September birth. See my post#9.
16 posted on 12/26/2003 4:37:31 PM PST by fso301
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To: Cicero
...........................

The date of the Crucifixion can be established, because it was on a Friday, the day before the Passover and the Sabbath, according to the gospel accounts.

10 posted on 12/26/2003 2:53:21 PM MST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)

Perhaps not !

see Messiah in Passover


NAsbU John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

a bondslave to the Christ

chuck

17 posted on 12/26/2003 9:50:00 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>)
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To: joanie-f; snopercod; All
Some time ago, I looked into the eye of God, the Creator, and thought, and I knew that He is an angry God. I am given to understand, that is largely because of abortion. May God forgive us all.

On Christmas morning, last, I awoke, got out of bed, stood up tall, and was given to think, "Rejoice!" I understood yet I could not believe easily, why I would think such a thing.

The next day, on a walk around the block, I was troubled, I was so frustrated, and upon looking into the western sky, found His strong gaze magnificent and sure, as if in measuring me. I think that I have seen that look before. I continued my walk and at home, I lay down to rest. At which moment, I was again given to think, yet stronger, "Rejoice! He has come." I shook, barely able to control myself, and then tried to sleep.

When I awoke, before dinner, I sat down briefly at my mother's computer and came to this forum, happening upon, near the top of the list of articles, this very webpage, "Was Jesus actually born yesterday?"

Yes.

That is why I "Pinged" you, Joanie, above.

May God bless you all and take care of you, all the remainder of your lives.

18 posted on 03/20/2004 10:00:39 PM PST by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: First_Salute
I must have overlooked your ping to this thread at Christmastime (chalk it up to the meandering mind of a quintagenarian :), but I'm thankful that I didn't miss this one.

This article is fascinating for those who are interested in relating the timing of events in scripture to our modern celebration of their occurrence – and that is a worthwhile (vast understatement) pursuit. I have never much concerned myself with that aspect of scripture, though, not having enough time or energy in this lifetime to even absorb the more 'personal messages' contained within. He seems to have given us His Word as a (the) history/guidebook/text of assurance that we are to pore over and digest, and yet our life spans appear to be far too short to accomplish that privileged task. Then again, I suppose we should consider such an (even unfinished) journey a complete gift in and of itself. :)

Your Christmas Day (and beyond) revelation is deeply moving, even for those of us who were not chosen to experience it firsthand (magnificent and sure, as if in measuring me ... so beautifully described. Thank you.) I often lament that we humans tend to seek neon signs reading Go this way! in order to discern what is good and right for us to pursue at each crossroad of our life. But He almost always chooses to speak in whispers. It's painful to contemplate just how many of those precious whispers are left unheard and lost, forever, in the wind stirred up by the meaningless clatter of everyday life ... and how many poorly-chosen detours we take as a result of listening to our own, often misguided, inner voice. Your ear was apparently turned in the right direction and your mind was bathed in quiet reflection. God bless(ed) you for that.

If you are of a mind to share any further details of your experience, even by private reply, please know that you would have an interested (to put it mildly) audience here. If you are not, then thank you for sharing as much as you have. What you have already described, alone, is inspiring and uplifting!

In a similar (but not nearly as wonderfully personal) vein …

I was visiting friends out of state this weekend and went with one of them this afternoon to see 'The Passion of the Christ' (it was her first time and my third). Never believing I would ever say anything even remotely along these lines ... I truly believe that Mr. Gibson, and others who played an integral role in the making of this movie, were simply serving as His transcribers, in sending a Divine message to those open to discerning and receiving it.

It isn't very often that forty million people (so far) are simultaneously touched by so deep a spiritual experience. In what manner they have all been touched is hard to discern (there may be forty million different answers to that question), but something potentially revolutionary -- in the sense of tending to remove one's gaze from an earthly perspective to a more supernal one -- is stirring within millions of hearts.

The one concern I have about the aftermath of this movie is that I believe that many people who do not know much about Christ will want to know more as a result of ‘The Passion’, and some of them who are not church members will consider attending church in order to have their questions answered. But a large majority of the churches in this country are under the controlling arm of the National Council of Churches – a blatantly leftist organization which supports all manner of communist/socialist/one-world organizations, and many of whose member churches oftentimes either contort, or completely ignore, scripture in their teachings. As a result, a watered-down, distorted, or completely ceremonial and non-scripturally-based view of Christ is taught. If someone who has been touched by this movie turns to such a church in order to learn more about Him and His teachings, I can’t help but wonder what will happen to the spark that has been lit.

How out of kilter is it that we need to fear what many American churches may do to potentially kill a spiritual seed that has been planted by a Hollywood production?

If you haven't seen it, Mike, you must.

Again, thank you for sharing your experience. A most beautiful description of an experience that so few of us have the privilege of knowing, only because we somehow fear allowing ourselves to be open and receptive to it.

~ joanie

19 posted on 03/21/2004 6:19:47 PM PST by joanie-f (All that we know and love depends on three simple things: sunlight, soil, and the fact that it rains)
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To: joanie-f
You have outdone yourself, lass. Thank you.
Check your mail.
20 posted on 03/22/2004 7:00:33 AM PST by Minuteman23
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