Death of obese man (who assaulted police) ruled "homicide"

Fox News | 12/3/03 | Fox News

[zlala]

The Coroner just read a statement saying the direct cause of his death was the struggle with the police; or that them trying to subdue him and the struggle cause his death. Contributing factors included the drugs and his weight and heart condition.

[ican'tbelieveit]

Do you have the same emotions in regards to what this man did the police officers? To the employees of the restaurant? To the patrons of that restaurant? To the paramedics that initially came to treat him and were unable to because of his erratic behavior?

[freereeper]

If he attacked the cops first then it wasn't a homicide. What are the cops supposed to do? Just sit there and put themselves into a potentially dangerous situation? Yeah,okay. And besides that guy had all those things in his system prior and his weight was a factor. It's so ridiculous how the police get charged with homicide, and yet the criminal (even though he's dead) would have gotten off. I think there's something wrong with this picture.

[Eowyn-of-Rohan]

"Do you have the same emotions in regards to what this man did [to others]?"

I didn't hear anything about what he did to restaurant employees or paramedics. I only saw his behavior with the police. If he hurt them, endangered their lives or terrorized them I would probably have the same emotions.

[FR_addict]

If a person dies in a traffic accident, they don't rule it a suicide or homicide, do they. I would think they would say massive internal injuries or accident.

I don't understand ruling this a homicide when the guy was on all those drugs and had an enlarged heart. If he died from the drugs alone and the heart condition would it be ruled a suicide or natural causes?

"the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally especially by a person of years of discretion and of sound mind"

[Just another Joe]

I have yet to hear a momma or granny from da' hood who beleives their little boy is a gang-banging murdering junkie.

That's because those type of statements come from law abiding citizens, most of which have kicked junior out of the house long ago, and those type of statements don't click with the media as 'victims of the establishment' statements.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Sorry to hear about your friend.

We had an incident here years ago, one of our guys put 5 .38 rounds into a guy high on pcp. The guy was coming at the cop with a steel pipe. After the 5th shot the guy was still walking. He lived too. The cop was not injured.

Fighting someone on PCP is no joke. You can get hurt real fast by someone who is not feeling any pain at all.

[Cap'n Crunch]

My Dear Eowyn,

I remember when people complained because the nightstick was too brutal so departments started going to pepper spray. Soon people started dying from the pepper spray. The Lateral Vascular Neck Restraint, commonly called "the choke hold" (and my personal fave) was also frowned upon, though it is very effective and safe when done properly, was also labelled 'taboo' because people were dying from the choke (debatable).

Now we have the Tazer, which is pretty effective from what I've seen, but, I suspect that people are going to die from the use of that also. Plus, that's another piece of equipment that has to be bought by cities, officers need training in it's use and there are alot of steps that we have to go through after we use it. Like taking people to the hospital for the removal of the barbs.

Barbs???, sounds brutal doesn't it?

The simple fact of the matter is, no matter how it looks (clubs) or what you use (tazer, club, open hand) people are still going to die sometimes when they fight with the police. No way around it.

Only two weeks until the Return of the King!!!!!!

[Cap'n Crunch]

Oh, I forgot, there are already documented cases of officers pulling their guns instead of their tazers when they are under stress. Resulting in the death of the suspect.

Then you have the whole other problem of being able to get to these weapons on your duty belt before some cracked up, PCP pilot is around your throat.

[Eowyn-of-Rohan]

"...no matter how it looks (clubs) or what you use (tazer, club, open hand) people are still going to die sometimes when they fight with the police."

Maybe someday they will come up with the perfect method. Until then I guess I just won't watch ;)

"Only two weeks until the Return of the King!!!!!!"

That is a MUCH more pleasant subject and I can hardly wait!

[Diamond]

I'll have to look at it again because my memory is like a leaky bucket, and so I am open to being corrected. But I distinctly remember at least one blow to the head.

Cordially,

[ican'tbelieveit]

The coroner discussed the locations of the bruises. There were no bruises to the head area.

And I rewatched the video again last night. The only time the police hit the suspect is while he was still fighting them, resisting arrest. Once they had him on the ground, they didn't use their nightsticks on him.

And I counted the blows. I came up with 13 in the clip they showed. There may have been several more in an earlier or different clip. But there were not hundreds. During the whole time they were hitting the suspect he was upright, pushing them away, grabbing at their nightsticks.

[ican'tbelieveit]

Actually, that would depend. If the accident was caused by another driver, it would be ruled a homicide, because it occurred at the hands of another.

Another example... lets say someone walking along the road steps out in front of a car, resulting in an accident that takes their life. That would be ruled a homicide, but the driver of the car would not be brought up on "murder" charges because it was an accident.

[ican'tbelieveit]

He was acting so erratic that the restaurant employees had to call for assistance. They called the paramedics, and when they arrived, the man was so out of control they called the police.

I don't know that he attacked them, but he was acting in such a way that it is an experience they will carry with them.

[JustPiper]

Ping!

[JustPiper]

They said the beating,fighting struggling is what caused the coronary

[JustPiper]

Traces were found in his blood, couldn't that mean he may not have been high that day?

[JustPiper]

I thought it would be manslaughter?

[ican'tbelieveit]

Traces of which? The coroner said that the cocaine had been consumed within the previous 3 hours prior to his death; the PCP within the previous 5 hours. He also stressed that that was a very conservative time estimate; that the guy could have taken the drugs minutes before his death.

[ican'tbelieveit]

Manslaughter wasn't an option: homicide, suicide, natural causes, accident (I misstated this before as undetermined causes).

[AmericanDave]

I think the Police would have been better off shooting him, after he charged like a rhino......