Boeing's New Baby

The Wall Street Journal ^ | November 18, 2003 | J. LYNN LUNSFORD

[jjm2111]

Have a look0 at Boeing's proposed 7E7 models, and how their configurations compare to its aging 676.

See our revamped Personal Journal section2 with new features and online-only columns, tools and stories, along with the entire contents of the print edition.

[rangerofrage]

Where is 7 of 9's room?

[stationkeeper]

I think one of Boeing's primary requirements for the new plant is to be within extreme proximity to a major seaport becuase the plane primary modules (fuselage/wings) will be constructed off-shore and the sent via water to the plant for final assembly.

[1Old Pro]

You ought to try it for 16 hours, like I am this Saturday

No thanks. Hawaii to New York is about all I can take.

[Baseballguy]

Exactly what I was thinking.

[JETDRVR]

Cathay Pacific Has Little Interest In Launching 7E7
By Lori Ranson
November 14, 2003


While the likelihood of Cathay Pacific launching Boeing's 7E7 is low, the airline's VP-Technical in the U.S., Peter Gardener, believes the airframer has "created a situation" where rival aircraft would have to "stretch out" to match the 7E7's technology, comfort and efficiency levels.

Gardener joined representatives from 80 airlines and eight financial firms in Seattle this week for what Boeing called a "progress summit" for the airplane, touring a mockup of the 7E7's interior.

Gardener said he couldn't envision his carrier opting to launch the 7E7, but in a conference call said the 3,500-nautical-mile, short-range version could be attractive to Cathay Pacific when the program is launched in 2008, barring circumstances similar to the Sept. 11 terror attacks or this year's SARS pneumonia outbreak.

Boeing's planned health-monitoring system for the 7E7 impressed Gardener, suggesting it could help carriers reach significant savings in maintenance costs. Boeing VP-7E7 Customers John Feren said the system could increase maintenance intervals once airlines collect empirical data that beat conservative fatigue estimates for aircraft fuselages normally included in new aircraft programs.

Commenting on the interior mockup, Cathay's Gardener said Boeing has stopped the "cramming effect" in bin space, and said the passenger windows were much larger.

Feren and Gardener were joined by Lufthansa's Senior VP-Corporate Fleet Program Nico Buchholz, who praised Boeing's 7E7 progress by saying the aircraft is approaching a capacity that's "acceptable" and a more suitable range.

Gardener said he'd prefer to see two engine offerings for the 7E7, and Buchholz said two would be a "nice mix," while three would be questionable.

The 7E7's fly-by-wire cockpit will feature yoke controls, Feren said but noted some airlines brought up the issue of fleet commonality regarding sidesticks. Pilots could transition from the 777 to the 7E7 cockpit in three days, Feren said.

Feren said Boeing could send out proposals with prices to carriers with estimated costs of the 7E7 shortly after the company's December board meeting, if the members give Boeing approval to formally offer the plane to customers.




I have mixed feelings , especialy if they go composite on the airframe like Airbu(tt)s.

[nightdriver]

"Airbus says it isn't concerned. It is launching its own ambitious new aircraft called A380, a double-decker behemoth that will be the largest passenger plane ever."

I thought the FAA refused to allow double-decker airliners because of evacuation problems. Has this been changed?

[Moonman62]

A-380 requires adjustments to terminals and gangways because the damn plane is so big.

I think you are right. Can you imagine what happens when they cancel one of those that is fully booked? Airbus is starting to "think" like a state owned company.

I still think airlines will want lowest cost of operation. All the new creature comforts are icing on the cake.

[ErnBatavia]

I'm trying to remember what a 747 wieghs "Heavy"...all I know is that once they take off, they can't land without expending (or dumping) an awful lot of fuel; I understand the airframe would just break from the weight.

[RightWhale]

Some of that old Starship Enterprise decor.

Starships have lots of room. Well, except the ones that pack the passengers into stasis tube.

[Daus]

Security hassles are actually less of an issue for me now than pre-911, due to the massive staffing of TSA people at security gates and the wide introduction of check-in kiosks at airports (or web based check-in).

[bicycle thug]

"On a funny one, one elderly gentlman (TSA employee) had a hard time standing up straight but was wearing the nomex tactical gloves that the specwar or SWAT guys wear. I almost busted a gut laughing."

Why? Nomex is treated nylon that resistes burning in flash fires. I used nomex gloves as a wildland firefighter, and my shirt and pants were nomex as well. Much like my flight suits were when I was an NCO on helicopters telling grunts to roll their sleeves down, leave the first aid kits and helmet bags alone, and to hold their weapons the proper way when I was a crewchief.

Nomex has many uses, and those particular gloves are very comfortable and as availible to buy as many items of gear designed and used by the U.S. Military.

On another note, I am curious as to what the old guy did when he was your age. He could well have been of the caliber of military personnel that could have smoked you like a cheap cigar.

My point is not to knock you, or make you angry, but to get you to think. My Dad when he died was a short bald chubby guy flying Cessna 310s for Wyatt Oil of New Haven, Connecticut. But he was also a Naval aviator who was a veteran of the Pacific Theatre of WW II.

I know absent minded, sometimes silly old guys here in town who have shown me pictures of them when they fought in WW II.

In any event, thanks for serving in the U.S. Military, and I wish you all the success in the world at what you are doing. AIRBORNE!

[jjm2111]

I have nothing against Nomex as a material and have the same pair of gloves for use when my unit is in the field. I've worn nomex turnout suits myself for shipboard firefighting use.

I found the tactical gloves on the elderly gentlemen amusing because while they did contribute to TSA's gung ho image, they didn't do anything for the guy. No gloves would probably be the best for baggage checkers unless some head-case pops up where they might want to be prepared.

OTOH, I'm always respectful with old people because I've met some of the most interesting people. I met the president of the USA POW assn. in a hotel bar once. Boy, did he have some stories. :)

And thanks for your service in the military.

[RayChuang88]

I don't think Cathay Pacific is interested in the 7E7 for this reason: they need a plane with seating capacity, not high efficiency like the 7E7 is.

This is why there is a deal possibly being worked out where Cathay Pacific will buy up to 15 747-400's powered by Rolls-Royce RB.211-524H engines from British Airways; British Airways in turn will buy up to 20 Boeing 777-300ER's as replacements for their sold 747-400's.

[JETDRVR]

Works for me. I"ll take a Boeing product over Airsnuff anyday. Its going to be interesting how the 7e7 pans out. Possable interest in Corp/Bizav sector, as the preformance numbers certainly best the BBJ.

[JETDRVR]

FAA Wants Carriers To Prevent Explosions Of Airbus Fuel Tanks
November 18, 2003


Investigations by Airbus revealing potential risks for explosions in center and wing fuel tanks on certain A319s and A320s have led FAA to propose a rulemaking requiring carriers flying those planes to modify wiring and replace high-level sensors in fuel tanks on certain A319 models.

Airbus found that fuel probes could overheat from a short circuit in wiring that indicates fuel quantity (FQI). Tests by the airframer also revealed that certain A319-115 and -133 planes couldn't meet Joint Aviation Authorities (JAA) regulations requiring a 2% expansion of the center fuel tank to prevent fuel leakage due to its "sagging of the bladder." Airbus said a new, longer sensor was developed that senses fuel at a lower level, reduces fuel volume and meets the 2% expansion rule.

A service bulletin outlining procedures to configure wiring of FQI probes was issued by Airbus in June. The airframer released a separate bulletin for replacement of high-level sensors on the A319s in October 2002. Airworthiness authorities in France made those bulletins mandatory in October 2003.

FAA said U.S. operators must complete steps in the Airbus service bulletins to comply with the proposed rule. The agency estimates costs for modifying the wires ranges from $1,320-$7,180 per aircraft, with total costs for U.S. carriers ranging from about $617,260 to three million. Parts to replace sensors in affected A319s would be free but would still cost operators about $5,200 per plane in labor expenses.

U.S. carriers, including America West, Frontier, JetBlue, Northwest, United and US Airways, fly about 465 A319s/320s that would require some modification under the proposed rule.

[wjcsux]

Probably no one , outside of residents of Wichita, knows the long and proud history of aircraft production in your city....the vast majority of the B-29 bomberw were built there...
Along with all of the B-47's and B-52's.