The Facts About The Smoking Ban. If you're a business owner or not, this is a must read!

The Facts Online ^ | 11-01-03 | Dave Hitt

[SheLion]

Every company's greatest assets are its customers, because without customers there is no company.
- Michael LeBoeuf

Businesses Harmed by Smoking Bans

Anti-smoking organizations insist that bans are somehow good for people in hospitality businesses. This chart shows otherwise. These businesses have lost a significant portion of their business as a direct result of smoking bans. Many are closed. Many that are still open have told us they doubt they'll survive much longer.

Most of this information comes directly from businesses that have contacted me or my colleagues. Some comes from newspaper articles. Blank spaces in the chart represent data that is unavailable, or that doesn't apply. (For instance, a distributor doesn't receive tips, and many owner-operators of small taverns don't have any employees other than themselves and family members.)

Business	Type Of Business	Closed?	Business Lost	Tips Lost	Jobs Lost	City	State
Crocodile Cafe	Restaurant	Closed	100%	100%		Tempe	AZ
Pooch's Easy Street Billiards	Pool Hall	Closed	100%	100%		Tempe	AZ
Laurel Bowl	Bowling Alley	Closed	100%	100%		San Luis Obispo	CA
385 league bowlers quit when the smoking ban went into effect, with a loss of $200,000. Laurel Bowl had been in business for 37 years before the ban.
Alexander Mackenzie Inn	Hotel	Not Yet	92%		16	Fort St. John	CAN
"Since we were `beaten' into compliance by the WCB, our business has dropped in the lounge from $1,000 a day to $80. "
Beacon Hill Arms	Tavern	Closed	100%	100%		Ottawa	CAN
Dave O'Connor, who successfully ran Ottawa's Beacon Hill Arms pub for nine years, said the ban forced him out of business. "From September to February, we lost close to $80,000 in sales"
Bud's Place	Tavern	Not Yet	23%			Cambrage	CAN
Gardeli's	Bar/Restaurant	Closed	100%	100%		Castlegar	CAN
Hemingway's	Bar/Restaraunt	Not Yet	40%		6	Ottawa	CAN
MacKenzie Lounge	Tavern	Not Yet	80%			Yellowknife	CAN
Mingles Coffee Shoppe	Coffee Shop	Closed	100%	100%		Kitchener	CAN
Rupert Pub	Tavern	Closed	100%	100%		Prince Rupert	CAN
Sky Garden	Restaurant	Closed	100%	100%	6	Ottawa	CAN
"It was 100% because of the bylaw. Sales dropped 50%. Our cups of coffee were down 400 to 500 a day, our meals 20 to 30 a day."
The Patch	Tavern	Not Yet	70%			St. Albert	CAN
Tubbys Pizza	Pizza Parlor	Not Yet	20%		2	Crescentwood	CAN
Back Stage Cafe	Bar/Restaurant	Closed	100%	100%	20	Wilmington	DE
Coach House	Bar/Restaurant	Closed	100%	100%	8	Wilmington	DE
Just Mugs Saloon	Tavern	Not Yet	33%			Bear	DE
Naamans Cafe	Restaurant	Closed	100%	100%	8	Wilmington	DE
Elks #1795	Lodge (Private Club)	Not Yet	40%	22%		Fort Walton	FL
"Charity money is down 45%. Our Charities are Kids of Florida and the Veterans. That is who is really getting hurt the most by this!"
Elks #2256	Lodge (Private Club)	Not Yet	20%	30%		Pensacola Beach	FL
"We've lost 70 members because of the ban"
Elks #2273	Lodge (Private Club)	Not Yet	60%	60%	1	Plantation	FL
Melons Bar & Grill	Bar/Restruant	Not Yet	50%			Port Charlotte	FL
The Falls	Restaurant	Closed	100%	100%		Naples	FL
"We lost 70 percent of our income," Renzello said. "The law put us out of business." 90 percent of her customers were smokers.
Bart's	Bar/Restaurant	Closed	100%	100%		Louisville	CO
Bart's had been in operation for nearly 30 years.
Gold Mine Restaraunt	Bar/Restaraunt	Not Yet	50%	50%	2	Fall River	MA
"There should be places for both the smoker and nonsmoker. I do not smoke but you are killing our business!!! "
Buffalo Wings and Beer	Bar/Restruant	Not Yet	50%			Gaithersburg	MD
Gentleman Jim's	Restaurant	Not Yet	40%			Gaithersburg	MD
J.J. Muldoon's	Bar/Restaurant	Not Yet	20%			Gaithersburg	MD
Middlebrook Restaurant and Lounge	Bar/Restaurant	Not Yet	50%			Germantown	MD
"I'm so bitter today because I have worked too hard to keep this business going. It's just not fair."
Pelican Pete's	Restaurant	Not Yet	60%			Germantown	MD
Tommy Joe's Restaurant	Restruant	Not Yet	30%			Bethesda	MD
Nutshell Tavern	Tavern	Closed	100%	100%		Biddeford	ME
Village Variety		Closed	100%			Fryeburg	ME
Grandma's	Restaraunt	Not Yet	33%			Cloquet	MN
Perkins	Restaraunt	Not Yet	26%			Duluth	MN
Aessa	Bar/Restaurant	Not Yet	35%		6	New York	NY
Argyle's EasyStreet Tavern	Tavern	Not Yet	12%			Cortland	NY
Athens Cafe	Restaurant	Not Yet	55%		10	Astoria	NY
Blessed Sacrament Church	Bingo	Not Yet	50%			Albany	NY
Brazen Head Pub	Tavern	Not Yet	40%			Monroe	NY
Brown Shanty	Tavern	Not Yet	20%		1	Watertown	NY
Champions Billiards Cafe	Brew Pub/Pool Hall	Not Yet	33%			Parkville	NY
Chili American Legion Post 1830	Private Club	Not Yet	70%			Scottsville	NY
Coleman's Irish Pub	Bar/Restaurant	Not Yet	19%		4	Syracuse	NY
Crossroads Steak House	Restaurant	Closed	100%	100%		Kennedy	NY
Delmar Sportsman's Tavern	Tavern	Not Yet	30%		1	Massena	NY
"We had hoped...nonsmokers who haven't been frequenting taverns due to the smoke-filled air would make up for at least some of the financial loss. Unfortunately, at least in our place, this has most definitely not happened. Our sales are at an all time low"
Desperado's	Tavern	Not Yet	90%			Wallkill	NY
"I can count on my fingers the people who don't smoke who come in here. The regulars say they won't come."
Dodesters	Tavern	Not Yet	9%			Syracuse	NY
Eagle Beverage Company	Distributor	Not Yet	25%	N/A		Oswego	NY
"Deliveries to pubs and taverns have decreased substantially, greater than 25 percent."
Edigan's	Restaurant	Closed	100%	100%		Binghamton	NY
End Zone	Bar/Restaurant	Not Yet	30%		1	Liverpool	NY
Euzkadi	Restaurant	Not Yet	50%			New York	NY
Fiddler's Green	Tavern	Closed	100%	100%		New York	NY
We have just lost too many customers to this law, which I did not vote for, bar owners did not vote for, bartenders did not vote for, and the public did not vote for."
Finish Line	Bar/Restaurant	Not Yet	40%		2	Bellerose	NY
Fountain Bowl	Bowling Alley	Not Yet	40%	N/A	8	Jamestown	NY
Golden Rail Ale House	Tavern	Not Yet	75%			Newburgh	NY
Harry's Hanover Square	Bar/Restaraunt	Closed	100%	100		New York	NY
"Overnight, we lost 60 percent of our evening bar trade. For the bar, it was the difference in profit and loss. Sales of expensive cigars had been almost as important as the sales of Scotch" Harry's had been in business for more than thirty years
Holmes & Watson's	Tavern	Not Yet	30%			Troy	NY
Hotel McDonald	Hotel	Not Yet	70%			Bath	NY
Just One More	Tavern	Not Yet	30%			Bath	NY
Liberty Lanes	Bowling	Not Yet	27%			Camden	NY
Mama Lena's	Restaurant	Closed	100%	100%		Binghamton	NY
Mama Lena's had been in business for more than 40 years.
Mel's Place	Tavern	Not Yet	78%	100%		Falconer	NY
"When we bought this place, we throught we were buying our American Dream. We ran it successfully for 10 years. Now the government is stripping us from making a living. "
Middleport Inn	Bar/Restaurant	Closed	100%	100%	13	Middleport	NY
"This damn state really knows how to kill people's dreams."
Millennium	Restaurant	Not Yet	40%		3	New York	NY
Nibsy's Pub	Bar/Restaurant	Not Yet	18%			Syracuse	NY
Rafferty's	Bar/Restaurant	Not Yet	35%		2	Syracuse	NY
Richard's Ole Timer	Bar/Restaurant	Not Yet	17%		1	Clay	NY
Roesch's Tavern	Tavern	Closed	100%	100%	5	New York	NY
This had been a family business for more than a century
Salingers	Tavern	Not Yet	35%		2	Rochester	NY
Sevens Bar	Tavern	Not Yet	10%			Malone	NY
Shamrock Tavern	Tavern	Not Yet	50%			Oswego	NY
"It's not right. Our livelihood is being taken away."
Slade	Restaurant	Not Yet	40%			New York	NY
Slick Willie's	Billiard Hall	Not Yet	25%			Tonawanda	NY
Stumble Inn	Tavern	Closed	100%	100%		Champlain	NY
Taylor's Trackside	Bar/Restaurant	Not Yet	50%			Remsen	NY
Temple Israel	Bingo	Not Yet	50%			Albany	NY
According to Herb Holland, some of the regulars told volunteers that they would abstain from playing bingo, to protest the smoking ban. He hasn't seen them since.
The Lilly Pad	Tavern	Closed	100%	100%		Falconer	NY
The Lodge at the Lake Inc	Bar/Restaurant	Not Yet	50%		1	Broadalbin	NY
The Loft	Tavern	Not Yet	30%			Frewsburg	NY
"Our town has no attractions to draw in outsiders. We have only locals to rely on as patrons and 95% of them smoke. It will be worse when the snow sets in."
The Roadhouse	Tavern	Not Yet	40%			Brewster	NY
Thompson Road Tavern	Bar/Restaurant	Not Yet	25%			Syracuse	NY
Village Tavern	Bar/Restaurant	Not Yet	10%			Marcellus	NY
Bliss' Steak Ranch	Restaurant	Closed	100%	100%		Eugene	OR
Closed after 32 years in business
Doc's Pad	Tavern	Closed	100%	100%	24	Eugene	OR
"Let's face it, the economy is horrible. But for us specifically, the smoking ban was the knockout punch." The Olsen family had owned Doc's for 16 years.
Max's Tavern	Tavern	Closed	100%	100%		Eugene	OR
The Peacock	Tavern	Not Yet	40%			Corvallis	OR
Connor owned the Peacock for years - and says it was the ban that caused him to sell the bar. He says business gross fell from $1.5 million in 1997, the year before the ban went into effect, to $900,000 last year.
China One	Restaurant	Closed	100%	100		Round Rock	TX

CAN=Canada

If your business has been harmed by a smoking ban, or if you know of one that has been, please let us know. If possible, have the owner contact us. Newspaper articles are also welcome. Please include the URL. .

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Last Update: Saturday, November 01, 2003

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[CSM]

"Coach House was closed because of the smoking ban and put on the market for sale."

Was the number that I tried changed or did I call the wrong location?

[TheOtherOne]

I don't think there is any institution empowered to accomplish its goals by use of force, including the government

[CSM]

"I guess the fact someone buys a NEW liquor license doesn't mean there's a NEW demand for MORE non-smoking bars and restaurants,...."

The damand isn't for "more" non-smoking bars and restaurants. It is for more bars and restaurants, there is no choice for non-smoking, it is mandated.

From you posted article:
"Under state law, a county can only have one on-sale general liquor license for every 2,000 people, and one off-sale general liquor license for every 2,500 people."

If the population growth was not occuring the liquor liscense issuances would not be increasing.

"In California a license is a commodity that can be sold. In other words a business closing can sell their license and NEW licenses or record #'s of applications for them wouldn't be necessary...Would they."

No, but it is still unacceptable that any business owner is faced with government intervention driving the decision to close up shop.

"AND as to growth, I thought everyone is leaving California."

I never made this claim.

[CSM]

Everything the government does is enforcable by force only. What happens if you don't pay your taxes? The money will be taken by force. If you don't have the money you will be arrested. If they can't find you voluntarily, a warrant will be issued for your arrest. If you are found you will be arrested. Try to run after found and you will end up with the barrell of a gun pointed at your head!

If that isn't force, then what is?

Name one goal/law the government will not enforce by force?

[TheOtherOne]

No, but it is still unacceptable that any business owner is faced with government intervention driving the decision to close up shop.

I am sure you are against all the 'tort reform' laws impacting the legal businesses right? Or are you fine with regulation that doesn't affect you?

[TheOtherOne]

Funny, you don't seem to be talking about lethal force like you orginally did. That is what I have been disputing. Don't try to change your point now.

"Government is the only institution in America that is empowered to legally use lethal force to accomplish its goals."

Are you claiming the government uses lethal force to collect taxes?

[CSM]

"I am sure you are against all the 'tort reform' laws impacting the legal businesses right? Or are you fine with regulation that doesn't affect you?"

You have to be lacking the cognitave ability to connect dots. Tort reform laws do effect me. The frivolous lawsuit filed by Banzhaf resulted in the MSA. The cost of the MSA is passed on directly to the consumer. Therefore, frivolous lawsuits are just another tax to take from the citizens pockets and put it in the government bank account.

If he is successful in his law suits against the fast food industry, you can expect the cost to be passed along to the customer, that customer will be affected.

You don't think the cost of frivolous lawsuits are passed on to hospital patients, then to insurance companies, then to all of the individuals paying premiums?

I think the whole thing can be solved with a "loser pays" system. I would like to see the loser pay the total cost caused by the lawsuit plus some mark-up. We would then see less silliness and more companies would defend themselves rather than settle.

[CSM]

What is the point of pointing a gun at someone? Is it not to threaten that person's life? How much more lethal can you get than threatening a person's life?

If that person makes a threat back, then their life will be taken. Seems to be lethal to me, what is your definition of lethal?

[TheOtherOne]

My point was, that one mans onerous regulation is a benefit to someone else - as you just claimed with regard to 'tort reform'. My father's business, as a moral plaintiffs attorney, would be hurt by tort reform - you may benefit. It is the same way with most regulations. Funny, you just refuse to see that there is any legitimate reason to regulate smoking in public buildings but you have no problem encouraging legislation against some lawyer or other business where your interest lay with regulation. There is a word for that.

[cinFLA]

As I explained in another post "cinnie" is correct the Coach House is open and serving lunch -

Thank you.

[CSM]

"Funny, you just refuse to see that there is any legitimate reason to regulate smoking in public buildings but you have no problem encouraging legislation against some lawyer or other business where your interest lay with regulation."

Do you actually read. I never said that there is no legitimate reason to regulate smoking in public buildings. That hasn't been discussed at all on this thread. In fact, I completely support smoking bans in public buildings. Of course, a public building is owned by the public. It is necessary for any memeber of the public to access that building. It is proper, and expected, that the public can decide the use of that building. The public makes the decisions by electing their representatives, the reps then decide the use of the building.

You seem to think that privately owned buildings are somehow public buildings. Members of the public have access to private buildings, but that is by invitation only and it is not necessary for all members of the public to access that privately owned building. It is proper, and expected that the private property owner decide the use of his building. He is restricted from doing that by the public reps.

How is encrouging a "loser pays" system supporting legislation? It could be accomplished by ways outside of legislation, where did I say legislation was necessary to accomplish it? In addition, your father would most likely have his business improved under your proposal. More people would defend themselves rather than settle. He could also set his fee based on the premium as well as the hourly rate.

The examples I provided were only examples of how the risk free frivolous law suits effect everyone.

[TheOtherOne]

How is encrouging a "loser pays" system supporting legislation? It could be accomplished by ways outside of legislation, where did I say legislation was necessary to accomplish it?

Please explain how this is done without legislation. I am very curious.

[CSM]

Ah, I see, now I am obliged to explain away your assumptions about my statements. OK, try counter claims and suing for the lost productivity, expenses, and other costs. If the legal beagels starting having to answer in court for these things they may be more willing to consider the reasonableness of a claim before filing suit.

Look at that, we just created more business for your father.

[Sodbuster]

I can't wait until they tax fatty. This is the next logical step for the health/safety nazis. As you are all aware, fast food is unhealthy and therefore (obviously) should be taxed. I imagine it will go something like this:

$0.50 tax on a burger, add $0.05 for cheese and/or bacon
$0.25 tax on fries
Add a $1.00 if you super size your order.

You get the idea. I'm sure our elected representative will be able to develop a convoluted system that is fair and equitable to all (except business owners, but they are responsible for our poor health in the first place, aren't they?).

An alternative would be to weigh in at tax time and have everyone pay by the pound at the end of the year. While this system would seem to be fair, as it is based solely on the weight of the taxpayer, the cost to ensure the health of the taxpayer would be much too visible. It would be better to go with the first option and tax the burger joint who would pass the cost indirectly on to the consumer.

I'm joking, but you may want to write this down. It could happen.

Ex-smoker in CA

[TheOtherOne]

OK, try counter claims and suing for the lost productivity, expenses, and other costs. If the legal beagels starting having to answer in court for these things they may be more willing to consider the reasonableness of a claim before filing suit.

Either the laws give us that right now, or you are seeking to have them changes. Which is it? To allow the counter claims you refer to wouldn't we need legislation or where else would someone get a cause of action? Why do you want 'tort reform' if no legislation is necessary? How do you think you get the right to countersue....legislation.

[xrp]

I don't think there is any institution empowered to accomplish its goals by use of force, including the government

Explain that to the Branch Davidians at Waco. Explain that to Elian Gonzalez. Explain that to all the people whose houses have been broken into by law enforcement officers, with "probably cause" of course. Explain that to law abiding Americans who have been executed by their government in drug raids.

[CSM]

"probably cause"

At first I thought that was a typo, but then the irony hit me!

[TheOtherOne]

Explain that to the Branch Davidians at Waco. Explain that to Elian Gonzalez. Explain that to all the people whose houses have been broken into by law enforcement officers, with "probably cause" of course. Explain that to law abiding Americans who have been executed by their government in drug raids.

Those are examples of abuse of power of government. Those are not examples of people empowering a government to do those things. Just because a police man shoots an innocent man with a gov't gun, does not mean we empowered him to do so. It is an abuse of power.

[CSM]

I am not a lawyer, I have very little knowledge if the law currently allows for counter claims. It would only be logical that it is allowed today. If the ability to sue for anything exists today, then logically a counter claim is allowed. I think that the ability to recover is probably more difficult than just filing a claim and hoping for a settlement. If the legal professionals want to avoid legislation, they should be willing to take on more counter claims.

If counter claims are not currently allowed, under the law, then I would advocate legislation allowing for fairness. I don't think this is supporting regulation, instead I think it is giving both sides the same caliber guns! It frees the tied hands of the private party that is being sued, it doesn't tie the hands of either party.

I see you just blew off the public vs. private property and lethal force aspects of my posts. Do you concede those points?

[xrp]

Those are examples of abuse of power of government.

So what happens if I ransack your house or shoot you? Is that simply 'abuse of personal power'? No, it is a violation of a right to private property and personal liberty. I can be punished for that. Who in government was punished for the deaths of the 80-odd Branch Davidians? Who in government is punished when innocents are executed in botched drug raids? Who in government was punished when Elian was seized?