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The Facts About The Smoking Ban. If you're a business owner or not, this is a must read!
The Facts Online ^ | 11-01-03 | Dave Hitt

Posted on 11/06/2003 7:28:30 AM PST by SheLion

Every company's greatest assets are its customers, because without customers there is no company.
- Michael LeBoeuf

Businesses Harmed by Smoking Bans

Anti-smoking organizations insist that bans are somehow good for people in hospitality businesses. This chart shows otherwise. These businesses have lost a significant portion of their business as a direct result of smoking bans. Many are closed. Many that are still open have told us they doubt they'll survive much longer.

Most of this information comes directly from businesses that have contacted me or my colleagues. Some comes from newspaper articles. Blank spaces in the chart represent data that is unavailable, or that doesn't apply. (For instance, a distributor doesn't receive tips, and many owner-operators of small taverns don't have any employees other than themselves and family members.)


Business Type Of
Business
Closed? Business
Lost
Tips
Lost
Jobs
Lost
City State

 
Crocodile Cafe Restaurant Closed 100% 100% Tempe AZ
Pooch's Easy Street Billiards Pool Hall Closed 100% 100% Tempe AZ
Laurel Bowl Bowling Alley Closed 100% 100% San Luis Obispo CA
385 league bowlers quit when the smoking ban went into effect, with a loss of $200,000. Laurel Bowl had been in business for 37 years before the ban.
Alexander Mackenzie Inn Hotel Not Yet 92% 16 Fort St. John CAN
"Since we were `beaten' into compliance by the WCB, our business has dropped in the lounge from $1,000 a day to $80. "
Beacon Hill Arms Tavern Closed 100% 100% Ottawa CAN
Dave O'Connor, who successfully ran Ottawa's Beacon Hill Arms pub for nine years, said the ban forced him out of business. "From September to February, we lost close to $80,000 in sales"
Bud's Place Tavern Not Yet 23% Cambrage CAN
Gardeli's Bar/Restaurant Closed 100% 100% Castlegar CAN
Hemingway's Bar/Restaraunt Not Yet 40% 6 Ottawa CAN
MacKenzie Lounge Tavern Not Yet 80% Yellowknife CAN
Mingles Coffee Shoppe Coffee Shop Closed 100% 100% Kitchener CAN
Rupert Pub Tavern Closed 100% 100% Prince Rupert CAN
Sky Garden Restaurant Closed 100% 100% 6 Ottawa CAN
"It was 100% because of the bylaw. Sales dropped 50%. Our cups of coffee were down 400 to 500 a day, our meals 20 to 30 a day."
The Patch Tavern Not Yet 70% St. Albert CAN
Tubbys Pizza Pizza Parlor Not Yet 20% 2 Crescentwood CAN
Back Stage Cafe Bar/Restaurant Closed 100% 100% 20 Wilmington DE
Coach House Bar/Restaurant Closed 100% 100% 8 Wilmington DE
Just Mugs Saloon Tavern Not Yet 33% Bear DE
Naamans Cafe Restaurant Closed 100% 100% 8 Wilmington DE
Elks #1795 Lodge (Private Club) Not Yet 40% 22% Fort Walton FL
"Charity money is down 45%. Our Charities are Kids of Florida and the Veterans. That is who is really getting hurt the most by this!"
Elks #2256 Lodge (Private Club) Not Yet 20% 30% Pensacola Beach FL
"We've lost 70 members because of the ban"
Elks #2273 Lodge (Private Club) Not Yet 60% 60% 1 Plantation FL
Melons Bar & Grill Bar/Restruant Not Yet 50% Port Charlotte FL
The Falls Restaurant Closed 100% 100% Naples FL
"We lost 70 percent of our income," Renzello said. "The law put us out of business." 90 percent of her customers were smokers.
Bart's Bar/Restaurant Closed 100% 100% Louisville CO
Bart's had been in operation for nearly 30 years.
Gold Mine Restaraunt Bar/Restaraunt Not Yet 50% 50% 2 Fall River MA
"There should be places for both the smoker and nonsmoker. I do not smoke but you are killing our business!!! "
Buffalo Wings and Beer Bar/Restruant Not Yet 50% Gaithersburg MD
Gentleman Jim's Restaurant Not Yet 40% Gaithersburg MD
J.J. Muldoon's Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 20% Gaithersburg MD
Middlebrook Restaurant and Lounge Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 50% Germantown MD
"I'm so bitter today because I have worked too hard to keep this business going. It's just not fair."
Pelican Pete's Restaurant Not Yet 60% Germantown MD
Tommy Joe's Restaurant Restruant Not Yet 30% Bethesda MD
Nutshell Tavern Tavern Closed 100% 100% Biddeford ME
Village Variety Closed 100% Fryeburg ME
Grandma's Restaraunt Not Yet 33% Cloquet MN
Perkins Restaraunt Not Yet 26% Duluth MN
Aessa Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 35% 6 New York NY
Argyle's EasyStreet Tavern Tavern Not Yet 12% Cortland NY
Athens Cafe Restaurant Not Yet 55% 10 Astoria NY
Blessed Sacrament Church Bingo Not Yet 50% Albany NY
Brazen Head Pub Tavern Not Yet 40% Monroe NY
Brown Shanty Tavern Not Yet 20% 1 Watertown NY
Champions Billiards Cafe Brew Pub/Pool Hall Not Yet 33% Parkville NY
Chili American Legion Post 1830 Private Club Not Yet 70% Scottsville NY
Coleman's Irish Pub Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 19% 4 Syracuse NY
Crossroads Steak House Restaurant Closed 100% 100% Kennedy NY
Delmar Sportsman's Tavern Tavern Not Yet 30% 1 Massena NY
"We had hoped...nonsmokers who haven't been frequenting taverns due to the smoke-filled air would make up for at least some of the financial loss. Unfortunately, at least in our place, this has most definitely not happened. Our sales are at an all time low"
Desperado's Tavern Not Yet 90% Wallkill NY
"I can count on my fingers the people who don't smoke who come in here. The regulars say they won't come."
Dodesters Tavern Not Yet 9% Syracuse NY
Eagle Beverage Company Distributor Not Yet 25% N/A Oswego NY
"Deliveries to pubs and taverns have decreased substantially, greater than 25 percent."
Edigan's Restaurant Closed 100% 100% Binghamton NY
End Zone Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 30% 1 Liverpool NY
Euzkadi Restaurant Not Yet 50% New York NY
Fiddler's Green Tavern Closed 100% 100% New York NY
We have just lost too many customers to this law, which I did not vote for, bar owners did not vote for, bartenders did not vote for, and the public did not vote for."
Finish Line Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 40% 2 Bellerose NY
Fountain Bowl Bowling Alley Not Yet 40% N/A 8 Jamestown NY
Golden Rail Ale House Tavern Not Yet 75% Newburgh NY
Harry's Hanover Square Bar/Restaraunt Closed 100% 100 New York NY
"Overnight, we lost 60 percent of our evening bar trade. For the bar, it was the difference in profit and loss. Sales of expensive cigars had been almost as important as the sales of Scotch" Harry's had been in business for more than thirty years
Holmes & Watson's Tavern Not Yet 30% Troy NY
Hotel McDonald Hotel Not Yet 70% Bath NY
Just One More Tavern Not Yet 30% Bath NY
Liberty Lanes Bowling Not Yet 27% Camden NY
Mama Lena's Restaurant Closed 100% 100% Binghamton NY
Mama Lena's had been in business for more than 40 years.
Mel's Place Tavern Not Yet 78% 100% Falconer NY
"When we bought this place, we throught we were buying our American Dream. We ran it successfully for 10 years. Now the government is stripping us from making a living. "
Middleport Inn Bar/Restaurant Closed 100% 100% 13 Middleport NY
"This damn state really knows how to kill people's dreams."
Millennium Restaurant Not Yet 40% 3 New York NY
Nibsy's Pub Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 18% Syracuse NY
Rafferty's Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 35% 2 Syracuse NY
Richard's Ole Timer Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 17% 1 Clay NY
Roesch's Tavern Tavern Closed 100% 100% 5 New York NY
This had been a family business for more than a century
Salingers Tavern Not Yet 35% 2 Rochester NY
Sevens Bar Tavern Not Yet 10% Malone NY
Shamrock Tavern Tavern Not Yet 50% Oswego NY
"It's not right. Our livelihood is being taken away."
Slade Restaurant Not Yet 40% New York NY
Slick Willie's Billiard Hall Not Yet 25% Tonawanda NY
Stumble Inn Tavern Closed 100% 100% Champlain NY
Taylor's Trackside Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 50% Remsen NY
Temple Israel Bingo Not Yet 50% Albany NY
According to Herb Holland, some of the regulars told volunteers that they would abstain from playing bingo, to protest the smoking ban. He hasn't seen them since.
The Lilly Pad Tavern Closed 100% 100% Falconer NY
The Lodge at the Lake Inc Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 50% 1 Broadalbin NY
The Loft Tavern Not Yet 30% Frewsburg NY
"Our town has no attractions to draw in outsiders. We have only locals to rely on as patrons and 95% of them smoke. It will be worse when the snow sets in."
The Roadhouse Tavern Not Yet 40% Brewster NY
Thompson Road Tavern Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 25% Syracuse NY
Village Tavern Bar/Restaurant Not Yet 10% Marcellus NY
Bliss' Steak Ranch Restaurant Closed 100% 100% Eugene OR
Closed after 32 years in business
Doc's Pad Tavern Closed 100% 100% 24 Eugene OR
"Let's face it, the economy is horrible. But for us specifically, the smoking ban was the knockout punch." The Olsen family had owned Doc's for 16 years.
Max's Tavern Tavern Closed 100% 100% Eugene OR
The Peacock Tavern Not Yet 40% Corvallis OR
Connor owned the Peacock for years - and says it was the ban that caused him to sell the bar. He says business gross fell from $1.5 million in 1997, the year before the ban went into effect, to $900,000 last year.
China One Restaurant Closed 100% 100 Round Rock TX


CAN=Canada

If your business has been harmed by a smoking ban, or if you know of one that has been, please let us know. If possible, have the owner contact us. Newspaper articles are also welcome. Please include the URL. .

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Last Update: Saturday, November 01, 2003

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TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: antismokers; bans; butts; cigarettes; individualliberty; michaeldobbs; niconazis; prohibitionists; pufflist; smokingbans; taxes; tobacco
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To: Eaker; hotshot
Now $54.79 EVERYDAY for meals is a bit more than I care to spend.

Hahaaaaaaaa that's a HOOT! hehe!

181 posted on 11/06/2003 4:17:59 PM PST by SheLion (Curiosity killed the cat BUT satisfaction brought her back!!!)
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To: SheLion
Good enough to get me back on your ping list???

;<)

182 posted on 11/06/2003 4:24:08 PM PST by Eaker (When the SHTF, I'll go down with a cross in one hand, and a Glock in the other.)
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To: Mears
I had never given much thought to buffets before, until a waitress/bartender friend and I started discussing the subject a couple of weeks ago. One of my favorite places in Dover was a chinese restaurant that had a great buffet (and I always left a tip).

I think I also made a crack about TB and for that you have my sincere apologies.

Eight years ago a friend of mine contracted TB - he worked in food service at the local state college - he got it from another employee. Let me tell you - the cover up about that TB outbreak was unbelievable. The state is still denying that anyone there had TB, even though they hounded me and my husband for over a year about our TB test results - that they demanded we get. Because my husband tested positive the state insisted he go on a 6 month regimen of some drug - even though he had turned in his x-rays and paper work from the family doctor attesting to the fact he did NOT have TB. It finally took me going directly to the Secretary of the state health department to get them to stop harrassing him.

Of course the folks at public health were not happy with that turn of events - so they turned their sights on me. they insisted I needed to be retested because I never came back to have my test read. I had the copy of the negative results they had given me, but that wasn't good enough for them. I HAD to have another test, because I may have falsified the paperwork because they had no record of it. Although I was self-employed, at that particular time I was also working part-time in a law office and they actually sent a letter to the attorney I worked for.

In the end I truly felt sorry for these people. They were ticked off because of who I contacted to get them off my husband's back....you would think they would have gotten a clue to not push me. At the time, the attorney I was working for was on the governor's short list for a judicial nomination, plus I had already shown them I was not intimidated by their bureaucratic BS. Apparently one does not have to have much of a clue to get a job with Public Health in Delaware because these people kept after me.

The misfortune of the people of Delaware is this is the mentality enforcing not only the smoking ban, but all the health regulations in the state. I sure am glad I don't live there any more.
183 posted on 11/06/2003 4:28:34 PM PST by Gabz (Smoke-gnatzies - small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: kevao
I don't know that they lied; but they certainly did get it wrong. I think they just waaaaaay overestimated the number of people who stayed away from bars/restaurants because of the smoke.

I don't think so, we have had a ban for over 2 years now, and I have only dined in town once, and that was under duress.

184 posted on 11/06/2003 4:31:07 PM PST by Great Dane (You can smoke just about everywhere in Denmark.)
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To: TheOtherOne
If you think smoking is a Constitutional right, that is your first problem.

Driving cars isn't a constitutional right either.

185 posted on 11/06/2003 4:33:06 PM PST by Great Dane (You can smoke just about everywhere in Denmark.)
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To: SheLion
That is $2.28 per hour for food and he thinks smokers have a problem!!!
186 posted on 11/06/2003 4:34:59 PM PST by Eaker (When the SHTF, I'll go down with a cross in one hand, and a Glock in the other.)
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To: TheOtherOne
Good for you, I hope you enjoy no rights because you want no compromise. I would vote to keep the bans over having none. You lose people like me with your all or nothing positions.

That appears to be a little over-reaction to someone not agreeing with your proposition for smoking licenses, wouldn't you think? Phantom Lord wasn't being snotty with you, and he even identified some very valid points of the pitfalls of licensing schemes, and you come back with that kind of retort? He was 100% right that rights have been eroding. Anti-smokers took the gloves off years ago and are not willing to compromise. Put in smoking areas they said. Spend money for separate ventilation systems for smoking areas they said. Aw hell, forget about it, we'll just ban it all, they now say. That constitutes nothing less than governmental taking of privately owned property without just compensation.

Fact is that it's "people like you" who are asking someone else to take care of your problems for you. Smokers are not asking for accomodation. I could care less if places banned smoking on their own, and I've been in plenty which have done just that. I used to at least have at least one drink before moving on for more ameniable accomodations, but now I don't do that anymore since anti-smokers are now telling us it's all smoke-free or nothing wherever they can. Now I walk in and say how nice, but I have to move on. Do you think any the anti-smokers crying for smoke-free places should open a smoke-free place of their own or continue to whine loudly that the business owner who put his own capital and sweat equity on the line should have a law forcing him to do it?

Oh, BTW, I didn't know private property rights were up for votes, negotiations, and compromise, especially those that belong to someone else, not you. Zoning laws are excepted to keep some things like strip clubs out of residential areas, since property owners usually know what activities are allowable in the community before they purchase the property. But to take away rights is abominable. I don't know if you do own your own business, but it is very sad how it's mostly those without their own business to worry about who are so quick to vote for such restrictions on those who do.

187 posted on 11/06/2003 4:36:46 PM PST by lockjaw02 ("The phenomenon of corruption is like the garbage. It has to be removed daily." -Ignacio)
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To: cinFLA
I post ACTUAL facts and you come back with studies????? you've got to be kidding.

And using anything with Stanton Glantz's name on it is bogus - he has publicly stated that if a study isn't coming up with the results he wants it gets scrapped (I'm paraphrasing)

The "studies" you provide from NY are from years before the TOTAL ban.

Where are the numbers from the casinos in Delaware since the ban went into effect there??? Of course you won't post them because they show you are wrong.

Where are your studies showing that businesses that were smoke-free by choice are being hurt by these ordinances and laws taking away the market niche they had created for themselves????

I have never stated that ALL businesses are hurt by bans - but you are so tunnel visioned in your anti-smoker glee that you refuse to acknowlege the fact that many businesses are harmed by them. Not bad management or bad food as you claim - smoking bans.

Some day I really hope you will wake up and actually look at the entire picture. You don't like smoking in a restaurant speak to the owner or open your own, don't go running to the government to force all businesses to cater to your wishes. That to me is like the parents of a child with a peanut allergy forcing the school district to prohibit any other child in the school from bringing a PB&J sandwich in his or her lunch box.
188 posted on 11/06/2003 4:42:45 PM PST by Gabz (Smoke-gnatzies - small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: cinFLA
Seems that the Delaware Restaurant Association SUPPORTED the ban on smoking. Sort of deflates your argument.

Actually it further supports my arguement because the DRA represents less than 400 establishments owned by less than 200 people - the vast majority of which are the big chains. There are more than 1700 restaurants in Delaware.

The only reason the DRA agreed to stop fighting the ban was because the bars were added to the ban. There are only 101 of them in Delaware. The small business man gets screwed again with the blessing of people like yourself.

I've got an idea: I don't know Florida politics and since you live there you may or may not. You don't know Delaware politics, but I have spent the past 20 years involved in it. You stop spouting crap about the Delaware smoking ban unless you have all of your facts and history correct and I won't discuss the smoking ban in Florida with you.

189 posted on 11/06/2003 4:56:00 PM PST by Gabz (Smoke-gnatzies - small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: SheLion
I have homes in Fl & Del. I travel 250 days a year with a mobile business in a 36' triple slide 5th. wheel. The last meal I cooked was in the 90's. Last night the bill for dinner at the Longhorn on Abercorn in Savannah GA was $33.00 plus a $6.00 tip(wife&me). Breakfast even at Denny's is at least $12-15 plus $3 tip. I have not eaten at a fast food joint in months. I buy for my employees also. Sunday night I will be in Charleston, S.C. buying for my friends there. Then in Florida by Monday night. Sam Seltzers on 436 in Orlando here I come. You should not call a person a liar. I can afford to eat first class every day and I do. P.s. I can write it all off! Ever try Sam Seltzers in Tampa or Orlando or will it be Lobster Feist on 192 outside Disney?
190 posted on 11/06/2003 5:11:31 PM PST by hotshot
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To: cinFLA
the state of Delaware enacted the smoking ban along with strong public and commercial support.

You have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to the Delaware smoking ban - NONE WHATSOEVER.

The truth of the matter is that the only reason it passed when and how it did was a demonRAT double cross on the GOP House majority leader by the retiring RAT Senate pro-tem.

There was no strong public or commercial support for this ban except from the paid out of state antis.

I worked this and I lived this and I lived in Delaware - I know exactly what went on. Please don't make declarative statements about things you don't know about.

191 posted on 11/06/2003 5:14:34 PM PST by Gabz (Smoke-gnatzies - small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: lockjaw02
That appears to be a little over-reaction to someone not agreeing with your proposition for smoking licenses, wouldn't you think? Phantom Lord wasn't being snotty with you, and he even identified some very valid points of the pitfalls of licensing schemes, and you come back with that kind of retort?

It is not an over-reaction, it is the truth. I live in Los Angeles and have many friends who smoke and it does not even bother me. I also travel often to NY and other cities. The smoking ban in LA is great. There is no loss of business on a scale people are claiming. (So those 'the sky is falling' claims are BS.) Did some go under, probably. (not under my plan they wouldn't) When I travel to cities with no ban, I realize how nice it is in Los Angeles. Here I am, a non-smoker, with no real problem with smoking, suggesting that any business that wants could get a license to allow smoking on the premisis. And I am the one with the unreasonable position? Lol, I get what I want either way. Many smokers insist on getting it their way or nothing. I merely said too bad, because people like me, who are on your side, will vote to keep a ban over elimiating it completely.

Many here are crying about a regulation - as though there are not regulations on all types of businesses and the like. If half of these people believed what they said they would fight liquor licenses and most other regulations. That is not what they are fighting, they are fighting the ban on smoking. Well, I think the government has the right to ban it - I just think it is dumb and that there is a middle ground that comes close to satisfying both sides.

Fact is that it's "people like you" who are asking someone else to take care of your problems for you.

Lol, hardly. And you want no government inspections of restaurants and no minimum sanitary regulations, etc. Well, sounds nice on paper - I prefer some government regulations to none.

192 posted on 11/06/2003 5:31:43 PM PST by TheOtherOne
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To: jsbankston
True you did not say you were anti-smoking - but your comments are the same as those of the anti smokers I encounter on a daily basis.

I disagree with you regarding the restaurants going out of business under smoking bans because of inferior product or service. First because I was speaking of both bars and restaurants. Second because I have witnessed what has happened to both where a ban has been implemented.

I have worked closely enough with many of the owners of these establishments for me to be shown their books. The losses I've seen have nothing to do with inferior product or service. When 2 similar establishments in the same jurisdiction both show the same type losses it kind of proves that point, doesn't it?

And then when I am also granted the same access to similar establishments in a nearby jurisdiction without the ban and see the increase in their revenues - it really says something.

I can only speak with first hand knowlege of the ban in Delaware - but I do know that businesses in Maryland are loving it.
193 posted on 11/06/2003 5:35:01 PM PST by Gabz (Smoke-gnatzies - small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: VermiciousKnid
I will have to disagree with you on 2 of your items. The bowling alley one seems a long shot to be the fault of the smoking ban. The closing was probably in the works for a long time. Banks don't just up and decided to buy a building, wrecking ball it, and build a branch over night. That had been in the works for some time.

And the all you can drink special may or may not be related to the smoking ban. It is not all that uncommon for bars to have a one price, all you can drink night. The bars I used to go to in Buffalo were only $5!!! $10.95 is highway robbery!

194 posted on 11/06/2003 5:50:22 PM PST by Phantom Lord (Distributor of Pain, Your Loss Becomes My Gain)
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To: cinFLA; CSM
Coach House Restaurant, Wilmington Del

How about giving ALL the relevant information of the Coach House????

You won't because you can't, because you don't know it.

Since I am familiar with the Coach House and have both eaten and spent time in the bar there I'll fill you in.

The Coach House did close because of the smoking ban - they were harrassed so badly by the smoke-snitches the owner decided it wasn't worth bothering with anymore, he had other business interests, so closed it and put it on the market for sale.

Because of the archaic nature of Delaware liquor license laws it was far easier for the purchasers to keep the name when purchasing the property and liquor license.

The last time I was in the Coach House prior to it's closing there was only one couple in any of the dining rooms. Every table and every seat in the bar area was full and all were enjoying the fabulous food.

On a Saturday evening the non-smoking dining rooms are empty, but the smoking permitted bar areas were packed. The smoking permitted bar areas didn't violate the state smoking ban because the space had been rented out by a private organization and anyone was welcome - as long as they paid the $1 membership fee to belong to the organization.

195 posted on 11/06/2003 6:28:15 PM PST by Gabz (Smoke-gnatzies - small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: cinFLA
Source of study, please...........
196 posted on 11/06/2003 6:30:58 PM PST by Gabz (Smoke-gnatzies - small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: qam1
It's a shame there hasn't been a story about the Maryland establishments that are close to the Delaware line - they are BOOMING!!!!!! But there won't be such a story, because the papers that do cover those areas already have editorial positions in favor of smoking bans and will never do a story that shows the harm the Delaware ban has done in Delaware or the good it has done in Maryland.

heck after the ban went into effect in Delaware most of the money my husband and I normally spent when we went out started going to Maryland. and let me tell you - those bartenders and waitstaff in Maryland LOVE the ban in Delaware.

I'm so happy I don't live in Delaware anymore.... But they are not rid of me. I'm only an hour away from the southern line and only 2 hours from the capitol. After being there for better than 20 years I've got too much history to just walk away. And my friends in the hospitality industry know I won't forget them.
197 posted on 11/06/2003 6:47:53 PM PST by Gabz (Smoke-gnatzies - small minds buzzing in your business - SWAT'EM)
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To: Phantom Lord
OK, I'll give you the bowling alley (maybe), though it seems awfully strange to me that a long-time establishment just up and decides to close two months after its leagues stopped coming. Who knows, perhaps the owner took this opportunity to retire instead of trying to slug it out with one arm tied behind his back.

But a BAR having an all-you-can-drink night on a FRIDAY? I've never seen that, anywhere, anytime. Tuesday? Yup. Wednesdays have traditionally been Ladies Nights. I've even seen specials on Thursdays. But not on Friday nights -- and it's not just one Friday. It's EVERY Friday, and still they struggle. These places should be bursting at the seams with a deal like that, but they aren't. In fact, they are nearly empty.

When I think of the rents the bar owners must be paying here on Long Island, I just can't see how they will be able to stay in business much longer. We've been lucky, weather-wise, with unseasonably high temperatures, but just as sure as God made little green apples, the weather WILL turn ugly, and people will NOT stand out in the whipping winter wind and snow to grab a smoke while they're trying to have a good time.

But I'll try to find out for sure what happened with the bowling alley (I have to go to their former next-door-neighbor's pet shop twice a week to buy, of all things, crickets to feed my kids' TOADS. Don't ask me how in the world I got talked into THAT one...).

Regards,

PS: I know two of the places named on this list -- one of them, The Finish Line, was a little place that generally catered to the Belmont Racetrack crowd. It wasn't my kind of joint, but it's a shame to see it go anyway. It was there for a very long time, IIRC.
198 posted on 11/06/2003 6:56:04 PM PST by VermiciousKnid
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To: Great Dane
Driving cars isn't a constitutional right either

no, but you can't stop me from driving my car on my 500 acres I own....damn, you can't stop my 13 year old kid from driving there either.

199 posted on 11/06/2003 7:11:14 PM PST by Legerdemain
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To: SheLion
Great post SheLion.

Dallas has lost a fortune in conventions and the restaurant business has been affected big time because of the nazi smoking ban.

I guess the libs that run the City will just have to raise taxes to make up for the shortfall.

200 posted on 11/06/2003 7:16:04 PM PST by oldtimer (t)
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