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To: presidio9
I guess you were unaware that the Catholic Church condemned the Nazis in Holland the result was Catholics being added to the Holocaust.

And that is supposed to deter the Voice of Jesus?

The Catholic Church has not had the military means to protect itself or enforce its opinions in centuries.

Utterly irrelevant.

Whenever I hear people criticizing Pious's supposed inaction, I have to laugh. Exactly what do you think he could have done differently?

So, are you just paying no attention? He could have honored the previous Pope's interrupted encyclical against church expressions of anti-jewish sentiment. He could have deep-sixed the Accords, and spoken out with the official voice of jesus against the ovens, any time between 1939 and xmas, 1942. He could have ex-communicated anyone working on the "jewish problem". He could have ordered the churches birth and marriage records sent off to an Abbey in Timbucktoo, rather than neatly collated and turned over to the SS. He could have refused the german army his priests. He could have excommunicated the Slovokian church heirarchy...and the list goes on and on and on.

it is, in my humble opinion, not the Pope's job to work in secret for good, and that is the defense being offered here, and it is a shabby one. He is the Vicar of Christ and Voice of Jesus, whether He occupies the Holy See or an Abbey in Timbuctoo. The defense that he was a prisoner of the Reich is pitiful. The defense that his sheep were prisoners of the Reich is pitiful in the face of interventions for other groups. Practically any other group but the jews, apparently.

145 posted on 11/06/2003 10:35:48 AM PST by donh (1)
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To: donh
And that is supposed to deter the Voice of Jesus?

You keep using that term. Can you cite Catholic dogma calling the Vatican the "Voice of Jesus?"

Utterly irrelevant.

Completely relevant. Unless you can tell us what the Church could have done to change the course of the Holocaust (aside, of course, from the millions of lives that were save through direct action by the Chruch that is) there is absolutely no point in us having this conversation (unless this is about some special need you have for making your self look ignorant and bigotted).

So, are you just paying no attention? He could have honored the previous Pope's interrupted encyclical against church expressions of anti-jewish sentiment. He could have deep-sixed the Accords, and spoken out with the official voice of jesus against the ovens, any time between 1939 and xmas, 1942. He could have ex-communicated anyone working on the "jewish problem". He could have ordered the churches birth and marriage records sent off to an Abbey in Timbucktoo, rather than neatly collated and turned over to the SS. He could have refused the german army his priests. He could have excommunicated the Slovokian church heirarchy...and the list goes on and on and on.

The Nazis renounced Catholicism and even persecuted it where it wanted to. None of these actions would have made one bit of difference.

148 posted on 11/06/2003 11:02:01 AM PST by presidio9 (a new birth of Freedom)
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