Posted on 10/17/2003 2:03:11 PM PDT by mr_griz
AFTER ALL THE YEARS, ALL THE fighting, all the bitter recriminations, there were remarkably few tears on Oct. 15 when Terri Schiavo finally had her feeding tube removed. Maybe the crowd of 80 or so gathered outside the hospice facility in western Florida were too angry to cry, or too numb.
For her part, Carla Sauer was just too tired. "I've been pulling for Terri since 1995," she said as she sank uncertainly onto a three-legged stool to rest the sandal-clad feet she'd been standing on for five hours. "I still can't believe it's come to this."
"This," apparently, is the end of the line in the long fight to keep Ms. Schiavo alive. A Florida judge on Oct. 14 refused two final appeals from her parents, clearing the way for the removal of the feeding tube that's kept her alive for a half-dozen years. Without the tube, the 39-year-old will slowly starve to death. It should take about 14 days.
That's precisely the outcome her husband, Michael, has been pushing for. Claiming that Terri has been a vegetable since she collapsed after a heart attack in 1990, Mr. Schiavo says he is simply honoring a request made by his young bride: That he not allow doctors to prolong her life through artificial means.
Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, doubt she ever made such a request. But even if she did, they argue that a feeding tube is not the same as artificial life support. Her vital organs function on their own, she smiles and laughs at the sound of her loved ones' voices, and she has no terminal illness that threatens her life. If she simply has someone who cares enough to feed her, she could live for another 50 years—a condition not terribly different from that of thousands of other severely disabled persons.
"She's not a vegetable," Ms. Sauer insisted as she rested her tired feet. "She knows voices, she responds. She can follow commands, and she tries to communicate by blinking her eyelids 'yes' and 'no.'" And then there's the most important detail of all: "We used to feed her with a spoon, and she swallowed on her own."
That was seven years ago, when Ms. Sauer was a nurse at a rehab facility in Largo, Fla. At that time, Ms. Schiavo was getting physical therapy and full-time attention from skilled nurses. But the facility charged $4,000 a month, as Ms. Sauer recalls, and Mr. Schiavo soon chose to discontinue his wife's therapy and move her into the much cheaper hospice system. She's languished there for six years, tethered to a feeding tube while a fierce legal battle swirled around her.
The Schindlers argued that they should be named as Terri's guardians, in part because Mr. Schiavo now has a new girlfriend and a young child. Just because he's ready to move on with his life, they said, he should not be allowed to end Terri's. When a series of judges sided with Mr. Schiavo, the Schindlers appealed to the court of public opinion: They smuggled a video camera into their daughter's room—against a judge's orders—to show the world she could still laugh and smile and respond to affection.
With Terri now dying slowly, that video may be the Schindlers' final memory of their daughter. Rather than watching by her bedside, they are parked in a camper across the street. Bob Schindler has been charged with contempt of court, and he and his wife cannot visit their daughter without Mr. Schiavo's permission—or his lawyer.
The family tragedy, as painful as it is to watch, is only a part of a larger picture. Advocates for the disabled fear that Terri Schiavo's death could set a chilling precedent. "This is deplorable," Joni Eareckson Tada told WORLD in the midst of a whirlwind of press conferences and rallies. "What's happening here is just a part of a larger effort to class persons with severe cognitive disabilities as non-persons. Terri is not brain dead, she's not in a coma, she's not terminally ill. We have people who attend our weekend retreats who are more severely disabled. Yet the courts have washed their hands of this. Medical personnel are forbidden to deliver any food or water. She's being denied her right to humane treatment under state law.
"This case is a watershed for people with disabilities," Mrs. Tada said. "Removal of the feeding tube means you are promoting active euthanasia. As a quadriplegic woman, that's a frightening precedent."
Basically, I am pro life and against the death penalty. I do not think government has those rights to exercise.
Therefore, I believe those rights to be with the family, and to be a family decision as they are the ones who bear the responsibility and the burden thereof.
Unfortunately, this family is so severely spit that the courts got involved. This is always a mistake.
I'm only offering a guess to a question that was posed to me, but she most likely would have had them when she was in rehab.
From the Toronto Star article [HERE] : But because she's been in a persistent vegetative coma, she won't be experiencing anything, he explains.” She is not in a persistent vegetative coma or state. Her measured awareness rises above the threshold for those two states on the Glascow scale.
”When someone loses the higher brain function, if the cerebral cortex is gone, "there's no consciousness whatsoever, no sense of self-awareness, no sense of discomfort. They're living on the brain stem, with automatic respiration. If nothing but the brain stem is alive, she can't be aware of anything." But Terri follows commands, so there is a level of awareness. You asserted that Terri has no cerebral cortex functioning now. The wording does not state that such is the case with Terri, and rightly so because the opining physician cannot know one way or the other, not having tested Terri. Sorry, that link proves none of the assertion that Terri no longer has a functioning cerebral cortex.
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From the StPetersburgTimes, Mary Jo Melone article [HERE ]: "I don't think it is widely appreciated just how damaged her brain is," said Walker, an internist, who has followed the case closely by reading the public record. If her factual medical records are not yet public record, what this physician is going on are the videos and things printed by reporters and to be read in depositions. He asserts large claims, but there is no CT scan or brainscan to substantiate his OPINION.
Schiavo's cerebral cortex, he said, is mostly gone. It was destroyed by the loss of oxygen she suffered when she had a heart attack 13 years ago. I’m sorry, but this is an unsubstantiated opinion, not a test verified medical fact. Once gone, the cortex cannot grow back, Walker said. The space it once occupied in Schiavo's skull is now filled with spinal fluid. I would caution any reading that assertion that it was believed Karen Quinlan’s cerebral cortex (she was in a deeper coma state for many years before they turned off her respirator and she continued to breath on her own) was withered and the space filled with spinal fluid, but autopsy proved that to be a false assumption. Sorry, this too is opinion, not medical test verified fact.
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From the BBC News article [HERE]: (A reporter who would post the following without either researching the facts or having the facts but choosing to mischaracterize them is a hard one to believe further on …) Mr Schiavo's lawyer says the money has been spent on medical bills. Yes, it’s been spent, but Judge Greer secretly allowed the raiding of Terri’s rehabilitation trust fund to pay Felos, the attorney. That hardly qualifies as ‘spent for medical bills!’
Mrs Schiavo's brain scans have not been made public but Dr Walker has followed the case closely through media reports and court records.
"The majority of her cerebral cortex - the part of the brain that thinks and feels - has been destroyed and replaced by fluid," he said. This is again the same Dr. Walker of the StPeteTimes, Melone article.And again, he has not stated that he has seen the scans, he is merely stating his opinion of what he believes to be the case from following the public records. This article is also not a definitive answer to the state of Terri’s cerebral cortex. Sorry to have to be so negative, but these articles are not sufficient to base an assertion upon.
It is possible that Terri’s cerebral cortex has atrophied, but none of the material in the three articles can substantiate that, and we ought look questioningly upon them because there is video indicating Terri is above the response threshold for persistent vegetative state, and according to some physicians who have actually examined her in person. To be fair, the court’s appointed physician who examined Terri in person and is seen in one of the video records, has stated that he believes her responses are reflexive in nature and not indicative of comprehension or awareness. Which brings me to one last point, a point which was addressed by a poster previously: when there is a question or disagreement, then we ought err on the side of life.
"I don't think it is widely appreciated just how damaged her brain is," said Walker, an internist, who has followed the case closely by reading the public record. Schiavo's cerebral cortex, he said, is mostly gone. It was destroyed by the loss of oxygen she suffered when she had a heart attack 13 years ago. Once gone, the cortex cannot grow back, Walker said. The space it once occupied in Schiavo's skull is now filled with spinal fluid.
From the Fight over Florida woman's fate article:
Mrs Schiavo's brain scans have not been made public but Dr Walker has followed the case closely through media reports and court records. "The majority of her cerebral cortex - the part of the brain that thinks and feels - has been destroyed and replaced by fluid," he said.
It appears that Dr. Walker, who you got your information from that Terri Schiavo’s cerebal cortex is mostly gone, can only be guessing about this since he is relying totally on media reports and court records for his information.
Who is Dr. Walker compared to these prominent doctors? A professor? LOL!
Because 20 years to life would be worse.
"What other motive could there be to go through this kind of torture."
Reasonable minds could fathom many, many motives for this man.
I don't know nearly the detail about this as many others probably do. So, if I have any of this wrong someone will need to step in and correct me. Here's what I've read. Terri, prior to her "collapse", had bulimia. Her "loving" husband, MS, constantly berated her about gaining weight.
Prior to Terri's "collapse", during a family dinner with The Schindlers, Michael Schiavo, (in a fit of rage), grabbed Terri's brother by the neck and wrestled him to the ground.
Nurses and hospital staff at the rehab center where Terri resided after the collapse testified that they were fearful of MS, that he raged, swore at them and intimidated them.
There is evidence (granted, in dispute) that Terri had numerous bone fractures that may have been caused by beatings and a possible stragulation attempt.
Yesterday, after the feeding tube was removed, the Schindlers complained that Terri was overmedicated. MS, in retaliation against the Schindler's complaint, ordered that ALL pain medications be withheld from Terri while she's being dehydrated and starved.
As his wife, Terri, has languished in a hospice without even her teeth being brushed (per MS's orders), her "loving" husband has fathered a child with another woman out of wedlock, has a second child on the way, and is driving a new Mercedes.
If this information is even correct and true in part, it paints a picture of a sadistic, sociopathic man. That would be a plausible explanation for his eagerness to end Terri's life and cause such suffering to her family.
One thing I haven't seen, and would like to know if anyone has the answer to this question. Is there a life insurance policy on Terri with MS as the benefactor?
Here is the timeline (AP) I posted in #179. Where would this fit into the timeline?
Events in the legal battle between the husband and parents of Terri Schiavo after she collapsed of a heart attack on Feb. 25, 1990.
November 1992: Terri's husband, Michael, wins malpractice suit that accused doctors of misdiagnosing his wife; jury awards more than more than $700,000 for her care, Michael receives an additional $300,000.
Feb. 14, 1993: Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, have a falling out with Michael over the money and Terri's care.
May 1998: Michael Schiavo files petition to remove Terri's feeding tube.
Feb. 11, 2000: Circuit Judge George W. Greer rules feeding tube can be removed.
April 20, 2001: U.S. District Judge Richard Lazzara grants the Schindlers a stay.
April 24, 2001: Feeding tube is removed from Terri Schiavo.
April 26, 2001: Circuit Judge Frank Quesada orders doctors to reinsert the tube.
April 30, 2001: Lawyers for Michael Schiavo file emergency motion with appellate court asking it to order removal of Terri's feeding tube.
Oct. 17, 2001: 2nd District Court of Appeal rules that five doctors can examine Terri to determine whether she has any hope of recovery. The Schindlers pick two doctors, Michael Schiavo picks two, and the court the fifth.
Feb. 13, 2002: Mediation fails; Michael Schiavo again seeks to be allowed to remove Terri's feeding tube.
October 2002: Three doctors, including the one appointed by the court, testify that Terri is in a vegetative state with no hope of recovery. The Schindlers' two doctors say she can recover.
Nov. 22, 2002: Judge Greer orders feeding tube removed.
April 4, 2003: Schindlers' attorneys ask Second District Court of Appeal panel to overturn Greer's ruling.
June 6, 2003: 2nd District Court of Appeal upholds Greer.
Aug. 22, 2003: Florida Supreme Court declines to hear case.
Sept. 2, 2003: Schindlers seek intervention by a federal court.
Oct. 13, 2003: Protesters and Schindlers begin vigil at hospice.
Oct. 14, 2003: 2nd District Court of Appeal again refuses to block tube removal.
Oct. 15, 2003: Tube removed.
- The Associated Press
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/florida/sfl-fcomatime16oct16,0,7930197.story?coll=sfla-news-florida
"The majority of her cerebral cortex - the part of the brain that thinks and feels - has been destroyed and replaced by fluid," he said.
Four points:
(1) I don't know for sure that Walker has seen Terri's brain scans - he might have inferred the damage from the pro-husband team's testimony.
(2) I don't know how much consiosness Terri might recover to, even with major cortex damage.
(3) The article didn't solicit the pro-Schindler medical team's opinion on the Walker claim.
(4) No reason given for keeping the brain scans private.
Events in the legal battle between the husband and parents of Terri Schiavo after she collapsed of a heart attack on Feb. 25, 1990.
November 1992: Terri's husband, Michael, wins malpractice suit that accused doctors of misdiagnosing his wife; jury awards more than more than $700,000 for her care, Michael receives an additional $300,000.
Feb. 14, 1993: Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, have a falling out with Michael over the money and Terri's care.
Right about here - if it was 7 years ago, that comes out to about 1996, and she was *still?* receiving therapy at that point.
May 1998: Michael Schiavo files petition to remove Terri's feeding tube.
I don't know if and when her medical records can be accessed, but I'm willing to bet that a large number of people will be after the contents.
You make an excellent point. Who would want and order these brain scans to remain private? Michael Schiavo of course. This POS is a marked man.
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