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Terri Can Eat With A Spoon
World ^ | Bob Jones

Posted on 10/17/2003 2:03:11 PM PDT by mr_griz

AFTER ALL THE YEARS, ALL THE fighting, all the bitter recriminations, there were remarkably few tears on Oct. 15 when Terri Schiavo finally had her feeding tube removed. Maybe the crowd of 80 or so gathered outside the hospice facility in western Florida were too angry to cry, or too numb.

For her part, Carla Sauer was just too tired. "I've been pulling for Terri since 1995," she said as she sank uncertainly onto a three-legged stool to rest the sandal-clad feet she'd been standing on for five hours. "I still can't believe it's come to this."

"This," apparently, is the end of the line in the long fight to keep Ms. Schiavo alive. A Florida judge on Oct. 14 refused two final appeals from her parents, clearing the way for the removal of the feeding tube that's kept her alive for a half-dozen years. Without the tube, the 39-year-old will slowly starve to death. It should take about 14 days.

That's precisely the outcome her husband, Michael, has been pushing for. Claiming that Terri has been a vegetable since she collapsed after a heart attack in 1990, Mr. Schiavo says he is simply honoring a request made by his young bride: That he not allow doctors to prolong her life through artificial means.

Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, doubt she ever made such a request. But even if she did, they argue that a feeding tube is not the same as artificial life support. Her vital organs function on their own, she smiles and laughs at the sound of her loved ones' voices, and she has no terminal illness that threatens her life. If she simply has someone who cares enough to feed her, she could live for another 50 years—a condition not terribly different from that of thousands of other severely disabled persons.

"She's not a vegetable," Ms. Sauer insisted as she rested her tired feet. "She knows voices, she responds. She can follow commands, and she tries to communicate by blinking her eyelids 'yes' and 'no.'" And then there's the most important detail of all: "We used to feed her with a spoon, and she swallowed on her own."

That was seven years ago, when Ms. Sauer was a nurse at a rehab facility in Largo, Fla. At that time, Ms. Schiavo was getting physical therapy and full-time attention from skilled nurses. But the facility charged $4,000 a month, as Ms. Sauer recalls, and Mr. Schiavo soon chose to discontinue his wife's therapy and move her into the much cheaper hospice system. She's languished there for six years, tethered to a feeding tube while a fierce legal battle swirled around her.

The Schindlers argued that they should be named as Terri's guardians, in part because Mr. Schiavo now has a new girlfriend and a young child. Just because he's ready to move on with his life, they said, he should not be allowed to end Terri's. When a series of judges sided with Mr. Schiavo, the Schindlers appealed to the court of public opinion: They smuggled a video camera into their daughter's room—against a judge's orders—to show the world she could still laugh and smile and respond to affection.

With Terri now dying slowly, that video may be the Schindlers' final memory of their daughter. Rather than watching by her bedside, they are parked in a camper across the street. Bob Schindler has been charged with contempt of court, and he and his wife cannot visit their daughter without Mr. Schiavo's permission—or his lawyer.

The family tragedy, as painful as it is to watch, is only a part of a larger picture. Advocates for the disabled fear that Terri Schiavo's death could set a chilling precedent. "This is deplorable," Joni Eareckson Tada told WORLD in the midst of a whirlwind of press conferences and rallies. "What's happening here is just a part of a larger effort to class persons with severe cognitive disabilities as non-persons. Terri is not brain dead, she's not in a coma, she's not terminally ill. We have people who attend our weekend retreats who are more severely disabled. Yet the courts have washed their hands of this. Medical personnel are forbidden to deliver any food or water. She's being denied her right to humane treatment under state law.

"This case is a watershed for people with disabilities," Mrs. Tada said. "Removal of the feeding tube means you are promoting active euthanasia. As a quadriplegic woman, that's a frightening precedent."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: caneat; notincoma; schiavo; schindler; terrischiavo; terrischindler; thanksrobertdrobot
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To: RightOnGOP
You asked, "Why would you hold the governor responsible for this?" It could be that the other avenues in liberalized Flordiuh have been soured with malfeasance and corrupt persons, with failed judicial oversight (of the guardianship role of Michael schiavo and the states guardianship oversight role by Greer), with judges passing the buck rather than acting for justice and fulfilling the laws (it's a violation of law and the Florida Constitution to withhold basic sustenance from a disabled or elderly person), and now a woman is at death's door and the governor CAN act to save her without breaking the law but he is proving himself to be a feckless politician.
141 posted on 10/17/2003 6:15:22 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: RightOnGOP
You asked, "Why would you hold the governor responsible for this?" It could be that the other avenues in liberalized Flordiuh have been soured with malfeasance and corrupt persons, with failed judicial oversight (of the guardianship role of Michael schiavo and the states guardianship oversight role by Greer), with judges passing the buck rather than acting for justice and fulfilling the laws (it's a violation of law and the Florida Constitution to withhold basic sustenance from a disabled or elderly person), and now a woman is at death's door and the governor CAN act to save her without breaking the law but he is proving himself to be a feckless politician.
142 posted on 10/17/2003 6:15:22 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Don Joe
I have been posting on these threads for awhile now. You are obviously too lazy or care to little about your position to articlate a response. You have written me back twice, and yet, refuse to let me know, where Teri has expressed her desire to live.
143 posted on 10/17/2003 6:15:39 PM PDT by TheOtherOne
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To: Jeff Head
Without actual documentation of a living will, I can understand much of the criticism. However, the husband has convinced the court that those wishes were indeed true.

I look at the documentation on the site(Terri) and I see only accusations and experts who agree to the other family line.(I would expect that)

I have also seen the sad videos and I understand the emotional nature of this.

I came to the conclusion that it is really none of my business to intervene. To do so would damage the living will system and make it likely that medical professionals will begin to shift all of these decisions to the courts, as they can no longer take the word of a spouse or patient.

This worries me, as our courts have little business deciding these issues. Look what happened with abortion.

Lastly, I have seen some pretty rotten comments on these threads to include death threats and threats of harm to others.

Something smells here and it is not necessarily the court's decision. I would hope that lurkers who have gotten a eye full of this do not get the impression that these sentiments represent FRee Republic.

Because it does not.

144 posted on 10/17/2003 6:16:31 PM PDT by Cold Heat ("It is easier for an ass to succeed in that trade than any other." [Samuel Clemens, on lawyers])
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Wow! Sorry about the triple post ... the poor admin mod is probably overloaded with posts tonight, trying to keep down the taunting and name calling.
145 posted on 10/17/2003 6:16:34 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: RightOnGOP
Why would you hold the governor responsible for this?

Why would you not hold the husband who maimed her, with intent to kill, responsible?

Why would you not hold the judges who support the euthanasia/execution responsible?

Why would you not hold the district attorney who did not investigate her "collapse" because of real battery by her husband, responsible?

Blame them first, and leave Jeb alone. Replace them with law-abiding, life-loving Republicans OR Democrats, instead of the ones on the frontlines of this situation.

So basically, you want us to take everyone who's either harmed her, or been in a position to help her but refused, and hold their feet to the fire -- except for Bush?

No, I don't think so. That's not how it works, sorry.

146 posted on 10/17/2003 6:19:04 PM PDT by Don Joe
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To: TheOtherOne
Perhaps you could find another question that would merit a response. The one you posed is a bit twisted in it's fundamental principle. EX: if we gaged and hogtied you, then held a 9mm to your head and said we were going to shoot if you didn't clearly articulate your wish to live, would we be correct in assuming your garbled terror should be taken as a no or a none response?
147 posted on 10/17/2003 6:20:16 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: TheOtherOne
Screw your stupid games.

I sized you up for a troll, and you're convincing me I was right. If you'd even bothered to look, you'd have noticed that I've already posted the links -- in THIS thread -- as have others.

But nope. You just want to shoot from the lip, and play your stupid games.

Well guess what? I ain't playing your game.

Bye now.

148 posted on 10/17/2003 6:22:27 PM PDT by Don Joe
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To: wirestripper
However, the husband has convinced the court that those wishes were indeed true.

Convinced?

I'm not so sure that's the right word for it, but whatever. The evidence to the contrary is overwhelming. Take a look at what the Thomas More Law Center and the other experts that were solicited by Bush had to say.

They said the same things we've been saying in these threads.

This stuff is so obvious that you'd think they'd be embarassed to even pretend there's some controversy. But, I guess having the power of life and death in your hands -- with no one willing to challenge it -- can go to a fella's head. So, they get cocky. They pretend the obvious lie is the truth.

That's life in this corrupt little ball o' dirt.

149 posted on 10/17/2003 6:26:07 PM PDT by Don Joe
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To: DannyTN
Medicare is aware of the hospice's improprieties. See this link.

Also, see this link to see what a fine, upstanding institution Suncoast is.
150 posted on 10/17/2003 6:26:35 PM PDT by iowamomforfreedom (Why is it illegal to starve an animal but not a human being?)
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To: wirestripper
Lastly, I have seen some pretty rotten comments on these threads to include death threats and threats of harm to others.

I haven't seen any of that. Do you have any links to support that claim?

151 posted on 10/17/2003 6:26:54 PM PDT by Don Joe
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To: mr_griz
BTTT!
152 posted on 10/17/2003 6:27:20 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: wirestripper
I have indicated what I would do in the same circumstances.

Living wills are fine, and should be written and used by people...but when it gets down to your own daughter (and I have three who are in their twenties) being starved and dehydrated to death...all of that goes out the window in my opinion.

Legal documents are only good and meaningful in an environment where the basic tennants of morality, honor and common sense reign. This case is one where those principles are being walked on IMHO...and some people will in fact fight to keep that from happening because it represents a drirection that is the antithesis of everything this nation and its legal system was built upon.

In this case, it is the responsibility of the parents and family members to try and save Terri...if it came down to it, and their only recourse was to physically take her from that tortuous death...well, for the reasons I have already opined on this thread, I would support them in that decision.

Just my opinion.

153 posted on 10/17/2003 6:27:34 PM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: mr_griz
"First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out --
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists
and I did not speak out --
because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out --
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me --
and there was no one left to speak out for me."
~~Pastor Martin Niemoller
(victim of the Nazis)

Is there anything we can learn from this?
When they came for the Catholics?
When they came for the Baptists?
When they came for the fundamentalists?
When they came for the agnostics?
When they came for the physically disabled?
When they came for the mentally disabled?

Just something for all of us to think about -- is this picture larger than we currently see it?

154 posted on 10/17/2003 6:27:39 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: MHGinTN
What question did I ask that you are taking issue with?
155 posted on 10/17/2003 6:31:10 PM PDT by TheOtherOne
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To: TheOtherOne
As I indicated to you in post 126, IMHO you are asking exactly the wrong question.

The burden must be on the other side in this...and they have not shown anything more than hearsay at the best...and that from a suspect witness IMHO.

...and for this the judge is willing to kill Terri. Shameful..and dangerously wrong on its face.

156 posted on 10/17/2003 6:31:40 PM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: wirestripper
Absent informed and written consent, life and death decisions should NEVER be made by unelected, unaccountable judges. Never.

Hearsay evidence from husbands or others who may or may not have the other persons best interests at heart just don't cut it. At least it shouldn't. Think of the possibilities:

'Uh Judge, to be honest with you I tried to kill her, but now she's only in a coma. But I can get my sister and friend to swear that she said that if the time ever came where ahe was in a coma she would rather starve and die of thirst.'

If it were my daughter she would have been out of hospice a long time ago.

157 posted on 10/17/2003 6:37:17 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: huck von finn
She was in rehab until early 1993. Her therapy ended within weeks of Michael Schiavo receiving the $1.2 million awarded in the malpractice lawsuit. $750,000 of this award was to be used for Terri's care and rehabilitation; the jury specifically awarded it for that purpose. NONE of that money went to her care and rehabilitation. A large amount of it WAS used to pay MS's lawyers.
158 posted on 10/17/2003 6:37:35 PM PDT by iowamomforfreedom (Why is it illegal to starve an animal but not a human being?)
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To: Don Joe
I sized you up for a troll, and you're convincing me I was right. If you'd even bothered to look, you'd have noticed that I've already posted the links -- in THIS thread -- as have others.

That is 3 replies to me, and still no answer. A link is hardly an answer to a simple question. Was is a statement she made verbally? A written statement? Her parents interpretation of her wishes? The doctors interpretation of her actions and movements?

Is it really that hard for you to answer the simple question. You said it was known that she wants to live, I merely asked you how you come to that conclusion. This is not a game, I am curious, as that would probably change my mind. I have yet to hear that claim made or substantiated - that she has expressed her wished to live.

I am aware of much of the speculation about her wishes, so you do not need to point me to that.

You are the one playing a game. My thoughts are clear and have been on every Shiavo thread I post to. I would error on the side of the individual rather than on government interference in medical decisions. I see a different slippery slope that others here - I see one where 3rd parties and the government try to make medical decisions for individual on the claim that they are promoting life.

If there is abmibuity, life should always be chosen. But if a clear intention is expressed by an individual, it should not be overidden by the State....regardless of the protestations of well meaning persons.

159 posted on 10/17/2003 6:38:48 PM PDT by TheOtherOne
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To: Don Joe
How about this thread. Many others, take your pick.

Any one at all.

160 posted on 10/17/2003 6:40:20 PM PDT by Cold Heat ("It is easier for an ass to succeed in that trade than any other." [Samuel Clemens, on lawyers])
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