Posted on 12/04/2015 2:35:20 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
Some Republicans worry that if Donald Trump or Ted Cruz wins the nomination, the party will be crushed, as Barry Goldwater was in 1964. But times have changed.
Washington — When Ted Cruz announced for president in March, many a pundit wondered out loud if he could be the next Barry Goldwater.
That is, could the hard-edged conservative Senator Cruz – like the late Senator Goldwater in 1964 – win the Republican presidential nomination, only to get crushed in the general election? With Cruz surging in the polls, second only to Donald Trump in the latest CNN poll of Republican voters, the question has added relevance.
Mr. Trump, too, has invited Goldwater comparisons of late, as he strengthens his lead atop the Republican field. Trump is a less apt analogy; he’s more populist than conservative, and his appeal is based more on his outsize persona rather than ideology. But the basic outline is the same: that the GOP could nominate someone unacceptable to moderates and swing voters, and the party gets crushed not only in the presidential race, but also in a lot of down-ballot races....
(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...
Ya got yerself a deal!
Obama isn’t JFK, Hillary Clinton ain’t LBJ, and this isn’t 1964. In 1964 Democrats controlled most state houses and governorships, union membership was over 25% (it’s now around 12%), the Democratic Party was not yet solely home to Marxist-Leninists and other creatures of the Looney Left, and the majority of voters still held personal and reverential memories of FDR. Today those FDR type reminiscences are about Ronald Reagan. So any attempt to equate now with fifty years ago is silly and, on the part of GOPe, a sign of desperation.
Of course, 13 states kept Lincoln off the ballot, including our Tennessee. I’d have voted for John Bell, who carried our state (even if Lincoln had been on the ballot). Would you have gone with Bell, Breckinridge or Douglas ?
Trump-Cruz is a win win. 16 years of making America great again.
I only know the one I wouldn’t have
Heh. Breckinridge it is. ;-P
LOL
It’s only the second coming of Barry Goldwater if we have the second coming of Lee Harvey Oswald first.
Now, I’ve been saying for a couple of years that that’s the final act of Plan Obama. The people who invented “Obama” have gotten themselves into a tight spot because of his misbehavior, and a Reichstag fire with “Obama” starring in the role of the Reichstag would be a way out for them.
It could, in fact, be the only way for HDR to prevail next November.
Let’s hope the Secret Service is on their toes.
A number of northern states did not put Bell or Breckenridge on their ballots either and two of the biggest New York and New Jersey only had Abe on their ballot
I only count 9 states without Lincoln on the ballot plus South Carolina which had no ballot ....it was up to their legislature
Curious the real race was for the north to elect Douglas to stave off war
There was no national campaign Lincoln and Douglas ran for the lions share of electoral college....easy to see why the less populated agrarian and more culturally conservative South felt politically marginalized.....like now by Yankee blue and purple yet again
It boiled down to Douglas stopping Lincoln ....pretty much the only hope
Everyone knew neither southern candidate could win and that the South would leave if Lincoln won
If Bell had carried the South that might have slowed it down too
A failure by all the politicians of the day sorta like now
To avoid catastrophe
It was like the Agincourt of the day....lost the flowers of the nation because hotheads couldn’t STFU and reasonable folks were shouted down
I wouldn’t have voted for any of them but I would have certain died for Dixie
In closing I doubt many in the South besides a few in border states felt it worth the effort to get Lincoln on ballots. Ditto why no southerners on some northern ballots though I think southern favor was more popular up north than abolition was in the South
Funny though isn’t it......not bothering to get on a ballot
Maybe GOPe could learn
Don’t waste time and money in big commie states
Plus it should be noted GOP and I think Bells party were brand new
Har har
It reminds me of that Canadian born I think Baylor teacher guy who used to post here under that nick
Flaming ageist social lib race baiter
Zotted one night posting pro gay crap I think
Agent provacateurs always choose oddball nicks they think are conservative and will cloak them
#3 fan comes to mind right away
If Trump and especially Cruz is nominated, this will FINALLY prove where the American people are. Are we a future Socialist country or are we a Capitalistic country. At least we will have the answer in January 2017. I am most curious of what is going to happen.
In a weird four way race.
If the GOP nominee is NOT Trump or Cruz, the party will be crushed.
Not necessarily. Hard to believe but polls currently have both Trump and Cruz losing to Hillary. Rubio on the other hand beats Hillary. Not sure why but there you have it.
Goldwater’s phrase was “Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice; moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue”.
It was written for Goldwater by his speechwriter Karl Hess. Hess picked it up from Harry Jaffa but a version of it dates back to Rome’s Cicero.
Very weird
Basically the race was Lincoln versus Douglas.....
And decided in the North
Not the Deep South
Not Mid South
Not Border States
All of which went for Southern candidates heavily
It’s funny
Besides Maryland which has gone upside down
The voting patterns are still similar as is the culture
Which Yankee state is most southern like in 1860?
Indiana and oddly enough California too
Indiana still is.....California no....well maybe in the interior a bit
I apologize, you are correct. It was 9+ SC (so 10) that kept Lincoln off the ballot (AL, AR, FL, GA, LA, MS, NC, SC, TN, TX). I miscounted 3 (KY, MD, VA) where Lincoln received such a small % as to be considered a desultory candidate on the ballot (he received .9% in KY, 2.5% in MD & 1.1% in VA).
Some Northern states did indeed keep Vice-President Breckinridge off the ballot for the obvious reason that the “Democrat” nominee of those states was Sen. Douglas (ditto for Southern states with Douglas).
I’m somewhat puzzled where you said neither one was on the ballot in NJ or NY. Douglas was on the ballot in NY (but Breckinridge and Bell was not). Douglas was listed as a “Fusion” candidate in NJ where he technically won a majority (but 4 out of 7 electors cast votes for Lincoln).
Bell’s ticket was just the remnant of Old Whigs, not a bonafide party. Ordinarily, they’d have been Moderate Republicans, had the party not been considered far too extreme and avant-garde for the South. It’s odd to realize had Andrew Jackson lived to the Civil War, he might very well have aligned himself with the Republicans (as it was, Sam Houston in TX was a de facto Republican, and his son, Andrew Jackson Houston was a Republican for most of his young career until accepting a Democrat Senate appointment from TX when he was a very old man in the 1940s).
Had Bell won, it would’ve likely been 4 more years of deadlock, so it was just putting off an inevitable showdown. Had Douglas won, that wouldn’t have mattered much, either, since he died in June 1861 (though Douglas was moving more towards Lincoln’s stance and I postulated had he lived that within time, he also would’ve become a Republican). As for Breckinridge, he’d have also just been a continuation of Pierce & Buchanan’s failed administrations, and would’ve faced a viscerally hostile Congress (and he, too, would’ve been out or even impeached within 4 years).
Ultimately, it was likely a no-win scenario for whomever ended up taking the oath in 1861.
I don’t pay much attention to the nicknames so much as I do their words. ;-)
Or we could always go with the safe moderate Dole, McCain or Romney GOP establishment critter since the safe way has always worked out so well historically.
There is another way the Republican Party can and might self destruct. If the GOPe does something overtly to screw over Trump, and Trump bolts to a third party, which is seeming more and more likely, all bets are off. I can’t even guess what Cruz will do if that happens.
“In other words, Trump is the only one MANNING UP!!!
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“Yes! Surprise, surprise, you finally GOT IT!
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