GOP debate rules could reignite questions about Cruz birthplace

The Dallas Morning News ^ | May 23, 2015 | Todd J. Gillman

[2ndDivisionVet]

Not surprisingly, the GOP presidential debates announced last week will be open only to candidates who can legally serve as president.

That will make Fox News and CNN the first arbiters of Canada-born Ted Cruz’s eligibility. By putting him on stage, they will implicitly be granting a seal of approval to the only contender born outside the U.S.

The U.S. Constitution says a president has to be a natural-born citizen. Fox and CNN both listed Article II, Section 1 among the requirements for would-be debaters. It’s inconceivable that either network would invoke that requirement to shut out the Texas senator.

But there are only 10 berths at each debate. It’s not so hard to imagine a candidate who doesn’t make the cut heading to court to say, “Hang on a second, that guy isn’t even a natural-born American.”

Cruz aides shrug off the possibility.

“It would be an interesting spectacle, but I don’t think it has anything to do with the legal precedent that’s been set and accepted,” said Rick Tyler...

[Nero Germanicus]

Hey, if anybody can convince a judge or a congressional committee of that, more power to them!

Duncan Sunahara lost in state court and at the state appeals court and he never appealed to the state Supreme Court or on to the federal courts.

It would be a good idea for someone, anyone to convince either a judge or a congressional committee chair that they should issue a court order or a congressional subpoena for inspection of the vault edition birth certificate and then we’d all know for certain what exists or doesn’t exist.

Here’s what the Republican Governor of Hawaii had to say about the vault edition birth certificate:
“You know, during the campaign of 2008, I was actually in the mainland campaigning for Sen. McCain. This issue kept coming up so much in the campaign, and again I think it’s one of those issues that is simply a distraction from the more critical issues that are facing the country. And so I had my health director, who is a physician by background, go personally view the birth certificate in the birth records of the Department of Health, and we issued a news release at that time saying that the president was, in fact, born at Kapi’olani Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii. And that’s just a fact. And yet people continue to call up and e-mail and want to make it an issue. And I think it’s, again, a horrible distraction for the country by those people who continue this. It’s been established. He was born here.”— Governor Linda Lingle
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/right-now/2010/05/hawaii_gov_lingle_answers_the.html

[nosf40]

There is a lie in Lingle’s statement you quoted. Neither she nor Hawaii DoH ever issued official press release confirming that Obama was born in Kapiolani. Her recollection of events is wrong.

Why is Virginia Sunahara’s original birth certificate state secret in Hawaii? If there was nothing to hide, why incur costs of a State trial vs. cost of making a copy of a single-page document?

Before Obama became candidate for POTUS, original Hawaiian birth certificates were required by Department of Hawaiian Home Lands. They have changed this requirement when “birthers” started asking questions about Obama.

Why change state laws and procedures regarding issuing of copies of birth certificates at the same time when Obama’s birth certificate was questioned?

You know all this but keep throwing out bogus arguments to muddy the water and confuse new readers on this forum.

[Nero Germanicus]

If anyone should arrange for Governor Lingle, Governor Abercrombie, Health Diector Fukino and Hawaii State Registrar Onaka to be subpoenaed, deposed and called to testify under oath, I would be supportive of that happening.

In a radio interview two years after the event and speaking off the cuff, Governor Lingle added a detail for emphasis of her point. Big deal.

Here’s a link to a television interview with the Director of Health who actually saw the birth certificate.
http://youtu.be/e9D4n6_Uifk

The data on the birth certificate is corroborated by:
1) The Index of Hawaiian births 1960-1964
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2011-04-23-obama-birth-certificate.htm
2) The “Health Bureau Statistics” articles in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin and Honolulu Advertiser newspapers published on August 13 & August 14, 1961.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/obamabirth.php
3) An August 31, 1961 Immigration and Naturalization Service interview with Barack Obama Senior concerning his request for extension of his student visa. Obama mentions his newborn son, wife and the birth in Hawaii.
http://www.wnd.com/files/2012/07/INS-6.jpg
4) The Dunham-Obama 1964 divorce decree names the child as the only offspring from that marriage and corrborates the August 4, 1961 birth date.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/12234409
5) The 1967 St. Francis of Assisi Catholic School application for Obama in Jakarta, Indonesia lists “Honolulu, Hawaii” as his birthplace.
http://www.usa-the-republic.com/items%20of%20interest/Barack_Obama_Usurper/Electoral_College/Obama%27s_School_Records.pdf

[jonrick46]

Barack H. Obama, Senior, was born June 18, 1934. Stanley Ann Dunham was born November 29, 1942. That is a age difference of eight years. When the Age of Consent was 14, the age difference between the minor (under 18 years of age) and the other person could be no more than five years. Am I correct? A statuary rape conviction could have ruined Barack Senior’s visa provision. He was already under scrutiny for his womanizing and the revelation that he already had a wife, Grace Kezia Obama. But more serious, according to documents, by the British Foreign Secretary at that time, reveal that Obama’s father, Barack Hussein Obama, Senior, was the target of an international investigation due to his ties to Kenyan terrorists groups. Federal officers were also prepared to investigate whether the Kenyan was married to the president’s mother, Ann Dunham. So, it was important for Barack Senior to hide the fact that he had fathered a child in a polygamous relationship that met the criteria for statuary rape.

If Hawaii had more lenient rules than I described in the age difference rule above, may I say that he would have been convicted of statuary rape in most states in the United States at that time. If not that, he would have been convicted of polygamy even in Hawaii.

[x]

Marital rape was a term that was viewed by the law as an oxymoron until shamefully late in U.S. history. Until the 1970’s, the rape laws in every state in the union included an exception if the rapist and the victim were husband and wife. In 1993, all 50 states had finally eliminated the “marital rape exception.” Source

It is also a defense to a charge of first or third degree sexual assault against a child age 14 or 15 that the defendant and the child are married. This is a remnant of the marital rape exemption, which has otherwise been abolished in Hawaii. (Haw. Rev. Stat. §§ 707-730, 707-732.) Source

[jonrick46]

If the marriage was a polygamous marriage, that was in violation of the law and, of course, does not count. He would have been convicted, because the polygamous marriage did not solve the problem.

[x]

I guess it's theoretically possible that at some point somebody in the Immigration and Naturalization might have noticed that Obama Sr. listed a wife in Kenya on one form and a wife in Hawaii on a later form, but I don't think it was necessarily something Barack Sr. needed to worry about that much.

Somebody who did might just have assumed that he'd gotten a divorce in the meantime. Obama Sr. probably wasn't going around announcing that he had two wives, so nobody would be looking to get him for polygamy.

The idea that he went with Stanley Ann to Kenya to get away from troubles just isn't that convincing. His troubles were probably bigger over there than in Hawaii (as hers would be if she had gone).

[jonrick46]

There is much that will be uncovered in this saga of detective work and peeling away of the onion. I imagine that someone who would like a Pulitzer will unravel the truth of Obama's past. I have my own theories and many questions unanswered. I would start with what did Stanley Ann reveal to her friend on Mercer Island when she showed up there with Baby Obama to attend the University of Washington, the summer of 1961? Anybody make a visit to Susan Blake, a former Mercer Island City Mayor, to find out what Stanley Ann told her in regards to where she was before she came to Mercer Island? Here is a photo and entry for Susan Blake as she appeared in a Voter's Pamphlet for the November 2, 1999 GENERAL ELECTION:

Appointed to Mercer Island City Council in May, Susan seeks a four-year term. As a 43-year resident, she brings leadership, knowledge and understanding of the community and strives to maintain the Island's livability for the future.

PUBLIC POLICY EXPERIENCE: • 5 years, Planning Commission- developed regulations for Shorelines Management Act, Critical Lands Ordinance and Town Center Design; • 5 years, A Regional Coalition for Housing (ARCH) citizen advisory board- recommended Trust Fund grants resulting in 750 new affordable housing units in east King County; • Member, Comprehensive Plan Task Force, wrote City 30-year plan for Growth Management Act; • 10 years, Mercer Island School Board- served 6 years on State School Directors Legislative Committee and National School Boards Association task forces in Washington, D.C.

PRIORITIES: Resolving Town Center parking problems, encouraging vitality in the CBD, increasing affordable work-force housing regionally, clarifying land-clearing, and tree protection ordinances and involving citizens in policy making.

CAMPAIGN ADDRESS: 3206 80 AV SE, #5, Mercer Island, WA 98040 TELEPHONE: (206) 232-5277

[Kickass Conservative]

At best, Obama was an Anchor Baby.

His Mother did not meet the Five Years of Residency Requirement to transfer Citizenship to him from what I’ve read. Naturalized versus Citizen at Birth.

[4Zoltan]

That only applies to births outside the U.S.

There was no residence requirement for the mother if the birth occurred in the U.S.

[Nero Germanicus]

On August 31, 1961 Barack Obama Senior acknowledged paternity of a son named Barack Obama, II born in Honololu on August 4, 1961 when William Woods of the Immigration and Naturalization Service interviewed him for a student visa extension. The notes from that interview were released under a Freedom of Information Act request along with the rest of Obama Senior’s INS files.

http://www.wnd.com/files/2012/07/INS-6.jpg

[Rona Badger]

The definition of eligibility for presidential candidates is not properly and thoroughly defined in the Constitution. Cruz’s situation falls between the cracks and until it is defined by SCOTUS, he will continue to be stuck in a grey area.

I agree: stuck in a grey area.

Forget location of birth for a moment. Do both parents need to be US Citizens at the time of your birth in order to make the child a natural born citizen? I understand that the parents don't have to be natural born citizens themselves, (i.e., they can be naturalized citizens) but must they be US citizens when the child is born?

Can just one US Citizen parent covey the natural born status? If so, is it only the mother's citizenship that matters (besides the age/time of citizenry of the mother)? Or would the father's citizenship work? What if one or both parents are dual citizens? Is the child automatically a dual (or triple) citizen, too?

What happens in cases of adoption? Say the parents of the child and the place of birth are unknown. Must the adoptive parents be US Citizens at the time of adoption in order to covey the natural born status?

My parents were both born in the US and both were US Citizens when I was born in the US. I am natural born citizen. From this definition, which we all agree is correct, it's a matter of interpretation of case law and constitutional intent.

[Nero Germanicus]

The courts of today use the statutory definitions provided in the U.S. Code of Laws for “Citizen of the United States At Birth” to define who qualifies as a natural born citizen.
Here’s a link to those definitions:
“Nationals and Citizens of the United States At Birth”
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/8/12/III/I/1401

[Scooter100]

I agree. (nice post).

[Scooter100]

your #5 doc contains the often shown “Obama Columbia Student Card”. I thought that card was proven to be a hoax, that someone else came forward with the same ID card number?

[Nero Germanicus]

Yes, that was proven to be a hoax.

So were two different versions of Kenyan birth certificates for Obama and a Republic of Panama (as opposed to the Panama Canal Zone) birth certificate for John McCain.

[Rona Badger]

I looked at that page of codes you suggest but I don't see the definitions for natural born citizens anywhere; in fact, the words "natural born" don't appear all. Citizen at birth does not automatically equal a natural born citizen in terms of becoming POTUS. That's what I'm asking about since there is actually no clear definition in the US Constitution of what defines a natural born citizen, and no court has ruled on the question.

Also, perhaps you will look at this answer on Ted's eligibility.

The author writes: "While we cannot definitively say "yes" to the question at hand, we believe that Cruz's eligibility would most likely be granted if challenged in the court system."

Most likely granted is this person's opinion, but it's not settled law.

The code you reference does have some information as to the citizen status of a person of unknown parentage which I was curious about, but would that person be eligible to become POTUS?

The overarching question for me is the issue of protecting the nation from foreign influence by allowing the POTUS to be any ordinary type of US citizen. Clearly, that was the intention when it was inserted as a special condition in Article Two of the Constitution, given the state of mind of writers at the time.

My belief is that natural born applies only to children with both parents being US Citizens at birth. That means Marco Rubio would be ineligible as well if his father became naturalized after he was born. The location of birth is of less concern to me, especially in cases where the parents are on US military bases or travelling outside the US while the baby happened to be born. Although, being born on US soil would remove any doubt whatsoever. As I said, I'm 100% natural born. Any deviations from my birth conditions in this debate are subject to interpretation.

[Rona Badger]

Thank you!!

[Yosemitest]

It's there for anyone who wants to take the time to find it.

One other thing.
Obama is NOT black !
The ILLEGAL ALIEN IN CHIEF is ARAB-KENYAN.

"Genealogical evidence has revealed that the impostering "first black president" Barak Hussein Obama is 6.5% Negro and 48% Arabic, the remainder 45% Caucasian."

The Arab-Kenyan Barack Hussein Obama II, (a.k.a. Barry Soetoro), ( the one guilty of TREASON ! ) has NO legitimate Social Security Number.
His father was NOT an immigrant to the United States.
Barack Obama Sr. was a "Transient Alien" because he did NOT intend on residing in the United States permanently.
Barack Obama Sr. was a dual citizen of Great Britain and Kenya, and NEVER a United States Citizen.

Read British National Archives Show Son Born To Obama Sr. In 1961 In Kenya!

His mother could NOT impart U.S. citizen to her son, Barack Obama II, because she did NOT meet the legal requirements to do so, at the time her son was born IN the Coast Provincial General Hospital, MOMBASA, KENYA at 7:21 pm on August 4, 1961.
Democrats knew this and tried to eliminate the "Natural Born Citizen" requirement at least 8 times BEFORE Obama won his election in 2008.

Obama is NOT a United States Citizen, and is NOT a LEGAL IMMIGRANT.
He has no VISA allowing him into this country.
Barack Hussein Obama II IS ILLEGAL !
He should be IMPEACHED IMMEDIATELY, tried for TREASON, SENTENCED to death, and then have his body deported back to Kenya.

[Yosemitest]

FACT: Cruz’s father’s Cuban nationality at the time of Cruz’s birth, is irrelevant, according to the law at that time,
just so long as he was a LEGAL Immigrant at the time of Ted Cruz's birth,
AND both of Ted Cruz's parents were legally married to each other.

What are the rules for people born between December 23, 1952 and November 13, 1986?

The 14th Amendment IS a part of the U.S. Constitution and states in SECTION 5.
The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
So, under that power to legislate, Congress legislated antd the President signed into law:
When ONE parent was a US citizen and the other a foreign national,
the US citizen parent must have resided in the US for a total of 10 years prior to the birth of the child,
with five of the years after the age of 14.

... While there were initially rules regarding what the child must do to retain citizenship,
amendments since 1952 HAVE ELIMINATED THESE REQUIREMENTS.

When Ted Cruz was born, his parents were "IN WEDLOCK".

They married, moved to Calgary, Alberta, and in late 1970 had their first and only child, Rafael Edward Cruz.
Cruz was born on December 22, 1970 in Calgary, Alberta, Canada where his parents, Eleanor Elizabeth Darragh Wilson and Rafael Bienvenido Cruz.

Cruz's mother was born and raised in Wilmington, Delaware, in a family of three quarters Irish and one quarter Italian descent.
Eleanor Darragh, mother of Ted Cruz, was raised in Delaware, graduated from a Catholic High School (1952) in the U.S., as well as Rice University (1956),
so clearly she meets the residency requirements.

Source

In 1957, Rafael Bienvenido Cruz (Ted Cruz's father) decided to get out of Cuba by applying to the University of Texas.
Upon being admitted, he adds, he got a four-year student visa at the U.S. Consulate in Havana.

"Since he liked to eat seven days a week, he worked seven days a week, and he paid his way through the University of Texas," Ted Cruz says of his father, "and then ended up getting a job and eventually going on to start a small business and to work towards the American dream."

Only he did that in Canada, where Ted was born.
His father went there after having earlier obtained political asylum in the U.S. when his student visa ran out.
He then got a green card, he says, and married Ted's mother, an American citizen.
The two of them moved to Canada to work in the oil industry.

"I worked in Canada for eight years," Rafael Cruz says. "And while I was in Canada, I became a Canadian citizen."

The elder Cruz says he renounced his Canadian citizenship when he finally became a U.S. citizen in 2005 —
48 years after leaving Cuba.
Why did he take so long to do it?
"I don't know. I guess laziness, or — I don't know," he says.


So there is the law for the time Ted Cruz was born,
AND HOW Ted Cruz's PARENTS fulfilled ALL those requirements of the law that time, for Ted Cruz to be a "Natural Born Citizen".
Ted Cruz did NOT NEED a Court and a Judge to "Nationalize" him.

“Senator Cruz became a U.S. citizen at birth, and he never had to go through a naturalization process after birth to become a U.S. citizen,” said spokeswoman Catherine Frazier.
... The U.S. Constitution allows only a “natural born” American citizen to serve as president.
Most legal scholars who have studied the question agree that includes an American born overseas to an American parent, such as Cruz.