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To: Just another Joe
People who enter a building open to the public, whether to eat or work there, have a right to a safe environment. Factories are inspected by OHSA, coal and hard rock mines by MSHA and buildings with elevators have a city or county inspection.
If I work in meat packing, or any other industrial occupation,I expect safe working conditions to be enforced. My office is inspected by the fire department and city building inspector. The house I build must be to a certain code, which includes smoke and fire detectors.
All this is an intrusion into privately owned space and probably could be described as a violation of property rights, but is society and are individuals better off because of these developments ?
The city of Springfield may be streching the "health and safety" aspect of their oversight role but its a good step. Tobacco smoke is dangerous, not to mention, offensive. Its not something I enjoy and smoking nearby can ruin a meal for me and my family. There is nothing in tobacco that is beneficial whatsoever.
The council is not reaching into private homes, but into public accomodations, which is a worthwhile effort and deserves support.
I don't miss leaded gasoline in the environment and I won't miss tobacco when its gone, too. The last survey I saw on the subject indicated 22-23 percent of Americans still smoke. Thirty years ago is was closer to 50 percent. Is this filthy habit really something you want to will to your children and grandchildren ?
Before you develop another personal attack, consider my politics: I make two political contributions each year; Congressman Ron Paul and the NRA. I'll match my conservative bona fides with anyone and I put my money where my mouth is.
You ?
47 posted on 08/29/2003 6:43:40 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
All this is an intrusion into privately owned space and probably could be described as a violation of property rights, but is society and are individuals better off because of these developments ?

The country would be better off if people like you were deported so I guess that justifies getting your boat ready.

You don't like to dine on private property where people smoke, don't go there.

50 posted on 08/29/2003 6:59:11 AM PDT by Protagoras (Putting government in charge of morality is like putting pedophiles in charge of children.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Congressman Ron Paul is a libertarian not a conservative and he opposes this fascist nonsense. So send your money to Hillary, she represents your side.
51 posted on 08/29/2003 7:00:35 AM PDT by Protagoras (Putting government in charge of morality is like putting pedophiles in charge of children.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Personal attack? What are you talking about? I've made no personal attacks against you.

The anti-smoking groups pushed OSHA at one time to start checking tobacco smoke (ETS) for harm to workers and the public. When they pushed too hard OSHA came back and said that many of the elements found in ETS already had PELs (Permissable Environmental Levels) set and that it would take an ENORMOUS amount of ETS to rise to those levels. The antis backed off. The only thing they wanted to hear was that NO permissable level would be permitted.

Most of the 'intrusions' into the property of a business owner have come about because of a proven health risk to the public.
ETS is not a proven health risk. The three largest studies in the world all found statistical insignifigance when looking at ETS and public health.

If it's all about the aroma of tobacco just say so. Don't pull out 'public menace', 'ETS kills 30,000 people a year', etc. It isn't even correlative much less causitative that ETS does more than smell bad to some people that don't have a pre-existing medical condition.

56 posted on 08/29/2003 7:10:38 AM PDT by Just another Joe (FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Before you develop another personal attack, consider my politics: I make two political contributions each year; Congressman Ron Paul and the NRA

I personally funded Ron Paul's last campaign, the NRA calls me nightly for advice and my Adult Onset Diabetes has been written up in medical journals.

Those facts aside, why do you think your narcissism entitles you to expect the rest of the world to cave to your neuroses?

Freedom is messy, but you apparently envision a world in which we'd all be required to alphabetize and color code our spice cabinet.

79 posted on 08/29/2003 3:11:43 PM PDT by Madame Dufarge
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