Boy Scouts' use of Balboa Park land ruled unconstitutional

San Diego Union-Tribune ^ | 7/31/03 | Ray Huard

[lowbridge]

Boy Scouts' use of Balboa Park land ruled unconstitutional

Judge says use violates separation of church and state
By Ray Huard
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
2:29 p.m., July 31, 2003

The Boy Scouts' lease of public land in San Diego's Balboa Park is unconstitutional, a federal judge decided in a ruling released Thursday.

U.S. District Judge Napoleon Jones Jr. said the Scouts' lease of the 18-acre Camp Balboa in Balboa Park violates provisions in the U.S. and state constitutions governing the separation of church and state.

Jones said the Boy Scouts are a religious organization because the Scouts require members to profess a belief in God.

The American Civil Liberties Union sued over the lease in August 2000 on behalf of a lesbian couple and an agnostic couple and their son.

Deputy City Attorney John Mullen issued a statement that said "the City Attorney's Office will analyze the decision and seek direction from the City Council."

The council will review the ruling in a closed session Tuesday, Mullen said.

A lawyer for the ACLU, Jordan Budd, said the council should cancel its lease with the Scouts unless the Scouts change their policies against admitting homosexuals and requiring members to express a belief in God.

"We believe it is long past time for the City Council to end its affiliation with this discriminatory organization and to keep open this public parkland for the use of all citizens of San Diego on a fair and equal basis and not just those citizens preferred by the Boy Scouts," Budd said.

The Boy Scouts have a 50-year, $1-a-year lease that is due to expire in 2007. The City Council in December renewed the lease at the Scouts' request for 25 years, with a city option to extend the lease an additional 15 years.

Under terms of the lease, the Scouts must spend $1.7 million over the next seven years to upgrade Camp Balboa. The Scouts also are required to pay the city an annual administrative fee initially set at $2,500.

In a press release, the Desert Pacific Council of the Boy Scouts of America expressed disappointment with the judge's ruling.

The council used its own money to construct and maintain Camp Balboa, according to the release, building nine camp sites, bringing water and power to the property, and building a swimming pool, parking lot, restroom and showers, meeting rooms, and a residence and office for a camp ranger.

[tpaine]

Atheism is an anti-belief--a militant anti-belief. Atheism is the anti-spirit behind much of the degeneration of American culture and the loss of freedoms that have taken place over the past century.
Atheism has already claimed our public forums for its exclusive anti-worship sites. Atheism is ruled by a very jealous anti-God.
-curried mind-



"The continuous disasters of man's history are mainly due to his excessive capacity and urge to become identified with a tribe, nation, church or cause, and to espouse its credo uncritically and enthusiastically, even if its tenets are contrary to reason, devoid of self-interest and detrimental to the claims of self-preservation. We are thus driven to the unfashionable conclusion that the trouble with our species is not an excess of aggression, but an excess capacity for fanatical devotion."
-Arthur Koestler-

[Egg]

Irrational Christian haters. They don't even bother with trying to hide their biases anymore.

But we've always known that it's really "Separation of Christianity and State":
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/950086/posts

[Egg]

Also here

[jimt]

There are no provisions in the Constitution of The United Staes for separation of church and State.

While I disagree with you on that, the deal between the government and the Scouts neither endorses nor enforces nor persecutes a religion. As far as the queer angle goes, it's ridiculous that people who make abnormal sex their reason for living can force others to "accept" and "celebrate" their lifestyle. While "all Men are Created Equal" they don't end up that way, particularly when their lifestyle choices are repugnant to others.

This is a disgustingly leftist ruling.

[nevergore]

As Defined in Encylopedia Brittanica:

Atheism as rejection of religious beliefs from atheism

A central, common core of Judaism, , and is the affirmation of the reality of one, and only one, God. Adherents of these faiths believe that there is a God who created the universe out of nothing ...

No religious beliefs...no admittance to BSA....

NeverGore

[Stone Mountain]

No religious beliefs...no admittance to BSA....

No argument from me there. My only argument was with the prior statement that "The BSA welcomes all beliefs." I'm guessing you meant to say, "The BSA welcomes all RELIGIOUS beliefs," right?

As an aside, the Encyclopedia Britannica calls Athiesm a central common core of Judasism? Wow. Any chance of you posting the entire definition? Thanks...

[Stone Mountain]

The anti-belief of atheism is not allowed in the BSA.

I have never disputed this. Not sure of what you are telling me here...

[MEGoody]

"U.S. District Judge Napoleon Jones Jr."

Napoleon Jones???????

[b9]

On a purely practical level,
can you honestly see trying to maintain
a den of healthy rambunctious boys
without them being answerable to a
principle higher than themselves?

Especially as they get older, into the teen years.
The BSA definately has an exclusionary policy ...
it excludes those who do not profess responsibility to a higher authority.

Civilization and progress demands it.

[tpaine]

Atheism is an anti-belief--a militant anti-belief. Atheism is the anti-spirit behind much of the degeneration of American culture and the loss of freedoms that have taken place over the past century.
Atheism has already claimed our public forums for its exclusive anti-worship sites. Atheism is ruled by a very jealous anti-God.

The anti-belief of atheism is not allowed in the BSA. The BSA is very wise to resist its corrosive poison.
172 -KC-


Stone Mountain wrote:
"I have never disputed this. Not sure of what you are telling me here."


Kevin is telling you that he is religiously bigoted against those who don't see religion as he sees it. - He claims:
"Atheism is ruled by a very jealous anti-God."
An "anti-god" to kevin, is no doubt his vision of a 'devil'.

Thus, to KC, young boys raised by non-religious parents cannot become Boy Scout members, as their parents 'sins' inspired by a devil, are to be visted upon the son.

To me, this 'curryism' is anti-christian & anti-american, but then I'm cursed by my own inability to 'know' it all, which is called agnosticism.

Perhaps that's why I didn't quite make Eagle Scout back in '51. Maybe kevins God found me out.

[Ohioan]

So he was appointed by Clinton when the Dems controlled the Senate too, and there was no check on far left judges being appointed.

There has virtually never been a check on far left judges being appointed. Unfortunately, Conservative Senators have never played hardball on this, in any way comparable to the way the Left has played it since 1930. The Leftward tilt of the Court, ever since Justice Roberts went over to the New Deal on some key votes in the late 1930s, has been no accident. Robert Bork was hardly the first judicial candidate who got "borked," on our side.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

[XBob]

46 - all that and he still doesn't know how to read:

"Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

[SandRat]

U.S. District Judge Napoleon Jones Jr. said the Scouts' lease of the 18-acre Camp Balboa in Balboa Park violates provisions in the U.S. and state constitutions governing the separation of church and state.

And what part of the SCOTUS Decision or Constitution does he not understand?

Let's see the Scouts have had it for how long after being given it for their use by a private citizen and how much improvement have they made, all done with private money?

Sounds to me like the judge needs to go back to law school on both constitutional law and tort law.

[ImphClinton]

I beg to differ with you.

LDS is a christian religion with a majority of other Christian religions recognizing it as such. The chruch works with nearly every other Christian Church in America and other countries in humanatarian projects as well as many other projects. When another church burns down ours is often avaiable we have also met in other church's.

The Church has been widely persecuted sinse it's beginning. This un-christian myth is one of the ways to persecute us. Anyone telling you we are un-christian is just plain wrong. There is no more christ centered church in the world. Our name is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and he is our one true God.

[RonF]

"the BSA welcomes all beliefs"

True. And I've seen nothing to the contrary.

[RonF]

First, I'm not passing judgement on the LDS' beliefs. I'm not a theologian. However, what I do know is that in looking on the Vatican's website, the Methodists', the Southern Baptists', the Presbyterians', and through printed material from the Episcopalians, all I see is that these denominations don't accept LDS baptism and belifes as Christian. If you have information to the contrary I'd be interested.

[Stone Mountain]

"the BSA welcomes all beliefs""True. And I've seen nothing to the contrary. "

So you don't consider atheism a belief?

[RonF]

No, I don't consider atheism a belief. It is a lack of belief, or lack of faith.

[Stone Mountain]

Do you distinguish between beliefs that are religious and any other beliefs? In other words, when you say that athiesm is a lack of belief, it is actually a lack of religious belief, right? If an athiest believes that there is not sufficient evidence to believe in a God, is that not a belief?

[RonF]

Yes, I'd say that atheism is a lack of spiritual belief. Or, as the American Heritage Dictionary puts it, "1a. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods. b. The doctrine that there is no God or gods." So you can say that an atheist believes that there is no God, and thus has a belief of a sort. The word "belief" in and of itself doesn't necessarily require that it be a religious belief, and my statement in that wise is inaccurate. Fair enough.

So let me then say that atheism is a lack of religious belief, a lack of belief that there is any supernatural power in the universe. Whereas what the BSA requires as a condition of membership is that one does believe in a higher power, a supernatural power that is beyond the material plane. It need not be incarnate. This would be religious belief, or religious faith.

An atheist, believing that there is no God due to lack of evidence, has a belief, but he or she has no faith (being belief in the face of a lack of evidence).

But while the BSA requires a religious belief, it does not require a belief in any particular religious faith. Thus, it is within the letter and spirit of the First Amendment, which is meant to prevent the State from supporting any particular church or faith over any other, and preventing it from interfering from anyone's profession of any religion. The BSA does not do so, and there should thus be no impediment with it's doing business with the State.

I expect the BSA to appeal this decision. I certainly hope they do. And I'll bet that if they go all the way to the Supremes with it, they'll win.