State ban against online cigarette sales begins today

TheJournalNews.com ^ | June 18, 2003 | ALLAN DRURY

[Just another Joe]

New Yorkers who have been dodging the state's sales tax on cigarettes by buying their cigarettes online lose that right today due to a law that was passed in 2000 but has been bottled up in litigation.

The law, which is still being challenged by pro-tobacco interests, prohibits the delivery of cigarettes purchased over the Internet to a consumer in this state and specifically targets Internet sales. A violation is a class A misdemeanor and can bring a jail sentence of up to a year.

[sfvgt]

yup......whenever you create a restricted market for something alot of people want, orginized crime moves right in.

[newgeezer]

How do you know what is packed in my boxes?

You fill in the "Contents" section of the manifest.

But, contrary to what others are saying here, I get the impression it's not the carriers' responsibility; it's the retailers'.

The State of NY will go after the retailers, not the carriers. NY agents will soon be ordering cigs online, and stinging those who are stupid or ignorant enough to ship to NY addresses.

[balrog666]

How long until they break out the tobacco sniffing dogs and sic 'em on UPS, Fed-ex, and the USPS?

And why isn't this an unconstitutional infringement on interstate commerce?

[Publius6961]

Oh yeah...

D'OH!

For those mental midgets who have the bright idea of identifying what's packaged on the outside of the box.

You ever hear of disappearing merchandise?
Talk about a crooks' smorgasborg!

Oh yeah, I forgot.
The USPS only employs honest upright Christian types...

(/sarcasm)

[Just another Joe]

The State of NY will go after the retailers, not the carriers.

I haven't read the text of the law so I'm not sure but it was my impression that they would go after the carriers.
The only way around that now is to ship via the USPS because you don't have to declare what is in the box unless you're shipping overseas.

[Calpernia]

USPS Priority Mail doesn't have a spot to fill in the contents for declaring items packed :)

Matter of fact, Express Mail doesn't either.

I have an Airborne Express slip here, I don't see a declare spot either.

On UPS, I have shipped with "General Merchandise" filled in on that space before...no questions asked.

[Wolfie]

Will they open and inspect every package delivered to my house?

Nah...just run the drug-sniffing dogs over 'em. They've got plenty, and they work for Alpo.

[Just another Joe]

On UPS, I have shipped with "General Merchandise" filled in on that space before...no questions asked.

I guess it would be a case of 'Don't get caught'.

[Calpernia]

>>>And why isn't this an unconstitutional infringement on interstate commerce?

bingo!

[Calpernia]

I guess that is true.

[CaptainJustice]

Hehehe... we should set up a network of freepers near New York to get cigarettes to our smoke-starved brethren.

[unixfox]

I can see it now, cigarette outlets on the borders of New York. Just like liquor stores do outside of dry counties.

[newgeezer]

Good points.

However, I do expect NY will be going after the retailers (not the carriers). Thus, the declaration of contents is moot.

[Calpernia]

Now THAT is an interesting question. Ok, you can't 'ship' cigs in. What about consumers bringing cigs in?

That is still evading the tax (if that is the real issue).

[Calpernia]

That is what I'm wondering about. Most of the 'retailers' are virtual companies like me. We aren't a store front. Work at of home and sell through the Net.

So how does this work across the board? If I sell an item, let's say on eBay, and the purchaser has a state law prohibiting the item to be shipped there, I'm bound by contract to sell. Am I responsible if that purchaser is not allowed to purchase? How am I to know what state that person is in until after the sale. Then my square trade agreement binds me in contract.

See, it gets stickier beyond the cig issue. I'm mostly wondering about this law itself vs. cigs shipping.

[Just another Joe]

What about consumers bringing cigs in?

I expect there will be a limited amount able to be brought in by the consumer (two or three cartons?) and anything above that will be considered smuggling.

[Just another Joe]

I can see it now, cigarette outlets on the borders of New York. Just like liquor stores do outside of dry counties.

Anyone have a nice storefront just outside the NY state line in Pennsylvania for sale? ;^)

[Truth29]

What about consumers bringing cigs in?"

I don't know the actual answer in law, but I would bet that it would become like buying liquor in the District of Columbia and bringing it into Virginia (where all hard liquor is sold through state ABC stores). What happens is that State liquor control agents stake out popular outlets in DC and if you buy more than a certain quantity, they follow you back into Virginia and cite/arrest you. Happy little police state.

[newgeezer]

If I sell an item, let's say on eBay, and the purchaser has a state law prohibiting the item to be shipped there, I'm bound by contract to sell.

No, you're not. The contract is rendered void by the fact that your sale would violate the law. Your customer probably knew the law, and was attempting to get around it. But, regardless, it's your responsibility as the seller to know the laws in your marketplace.

[spunkets]

NY is attempting to regulate interstate commerce. Specifically they are forbidding their citizens from purchasing from certain retailers located in other states. They don't have the authority to do that. They've done this a few times before though and have been shot down by the SCOTUS.