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Smoke ban goes private/ Clubs group for war with mayor
New York Daily News ^ | 9/24/02 | DAVID SALTONSTALL

Posted on 09/24/2002 3:49:45 AM PDT by kattracks

Mayor Bloomberg's proposal to ban smoking in city bars and restaurants will also include private clubs - those smoke-filled bastions that Bloomberg once suggested would not be covered under his toughest-in-the-nation ban.

But the clubs - from yuppie-filled, Ivy League hideaways on Manhattan's upper East Side to scores of American Legion posts that dot Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island and the Bronx - are entering the debate late.

That's partly because Bloomberg mistakenly indicated they would not be included when he first discussed the ban on Aug. 9.

"Private clubs," he told reporters then, "I believe, would not be covered."

But Dr. Thomas Frieden, the city health commissioner, confirmed for the Daily News that private clubs have always been part of the ban - assuming they have employees, which most do.

Frieden said the point of the ban was never to outlaw smoking, but to protect bartenders, waitresses and other workers from secondhand smoke - no matter where they work.

That interpretation also was reiterated last week by the city's Law Department.

"If there has been any lack of clarity on that issue, it will need to get clarified," said Frieden. "Because these are workplaces, too."

The city's decision to include these small locations means smokers will have only two safe havens: at home, or outside on the street. Bars, restaurants and all workplaces - including private offices - will be off-limits under Bloomberg's proposal.

The decision will likely draw awhole new set of players to the debate, among them some of the city's wealthiest powerbrokers - many of whom consider after-dinner cigars a God-given right - and veterans who find comfort in local fraternal halls.

Vet fired up

They will likely be people like Nino Fulgoni, 66, who was enjoying his usual cigar at the Our Lady of Fatima Catholic War Veterans post in East Elmhurst, Queens, when told of the mayor's proposed ban.

"We have veterans here who made it onto Omaha Beach on D-Day," Fulgoni said. "You going to tell them that they can't smoke?"

"They earned their stripes," added Fulgoni, whose post has about 80 members, roughly half of them smokers. "If they want to smoke - let 'em smoke."

Word of the ban's extension to private clubs has been seeping out slowly, mostly as bar owners have met with city officials to analyze the legislation's fine print.

One of those groups is the United Restaurant and Liquor Dealers of Manhattan, whose leaders are actively trying to bring veterans and other private clubgoers into the debate.

"We have been reaching out to these guys," said Brian Rohan, an organizer for the association, whose members - most of them small bar owners - have kicked in $25,000 to fight Bloomberg's proposal. "I think a lot of these guys are in for a shock."

Some City Council members are already feeling the heat. One constituent recently sent Cit Councilman James Oddo (R-S.I.) a poster she found in a bar. It showed Oddo's last name with a black line through the middle, and the words New York Restaurant and Liquor Dealers Association written beneath it.

"I knew going in that would happen," said Oddo, one of the bill's chief sponsors. "But you can't argue with the science. The bottom line is that these are all employees who are being subjected to a dangerous situation."



TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: pufflist
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1 posted on 09/24/2002 3:49:45 AM PDT by kattracks
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To: SheLion
ping
2 posted on 09/24/2002 3:50:03 AM PDT by kattracks
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To: kattracks
Don't these people realize that the City of NY knows what's best for them? </sarcasm>
3 posted on 09/24/2002 3:57:48 AM PDT by snopercod
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To: kattracks
OK, Oddo. So have them sign a waiver, if you want to get into legalities, stating that they're aware they're working in a 'dangerous' environment and are willing to accept the consequences--and if they don't like it, they can work SOMEPLACE ELSE.

Mind-bogglingly horrible. With seeping government intrusion into every facet of our lives, sometimes I wonder what American soldiers are fighting for. Is every aspect of our lives to be governed by nannies, who in turn live off of OUR TAX DOLLARS?
4 posted on 09/24/2002 3:57:51 AM PDT by Calico Cat
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To: kattracks
"...I knew going in that would happen," said Oddo, one of the bill's chief sponsors. "But you can't argue with the science. The bottom line is that these are all employees who are being subjected to a dangerous situation."...""

Yes, I CAN argue with the science, that is the whole point.

5 posted on 09/24/2002 3:58:56 AM PDT by error99
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To: Calico Cat
With seeping government intrusion into every facet of our lives, sometimes I wonder what American soldiers are fighting for

According to this article, even Veteran's groups can't get together and smoke in private clubs.

This whole thing is beyond bizarre. Shouldn't it be enough that restaurant owners set the smoking rules in their establishment, and people who don't like it can work or spend their money elsewhere?

6 posted on 09/24/2002 4:10:33 AM PDT by grania
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To: grania
This is what bothers me the most. What kind of bureaucrat would advocate going up to somebody who's risked his life for his country and order him to stop smoking?

How much will enforcement of this stupid law cost? Will police be conducting raids on bars and clubs and assessing fines to individual smokers, or to the owner?

Why do people tolerate this? Are people such helpless fools that they can't understand the concept of finding another job if you don't like where you work, or finding another place to drink if you don't like smoke?

It just astonishes me. The gall of the politicians, and the gullibility of their employers (you and I and every other taxpayer.)
7 posted on 09/24/2002 4:18:35 AM PDT by Calico Cat
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To: Calico Cat
It's disgustingly fascist. I remember when California was going through the same thing -- and somehow, one interview with a "pro" smoker's rights made it past all the filters into the media. He was a World War II veteran who opined "We went to war to fight against stuff just like this, I can't believe this is happening."

What's funny about the USA is hearing people claim "It's a free country" this late in the game. I mean, we have federal regulations on what kind of *toilet* we can own. One can only imagine what manner of craziness is coming. And on our dime, too.

8 posted on 09/24/2002 4:26:08 AM PDT by Freedom4US
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To: Calico Cat
Why do people tolerate this?

We can tolerate a lot of BS as long as it is happening to someone else and not us. I daresay none of these smokers has had trouble tolerating anti-marijuana laws all these years.

9 posted on 09/24/2002 5:08:48 AM PDT by Huck
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To: Freedom4US
What's funny about the USA is hearing people claim "It's a free country" this late in the game. I mean, we have federal regulations on what kind of *toilet* we can own.

And that regulation was passed with broad bipartisan support. For that regulation to become law, free Americans had to vote for their Congressional representation. They had to vote for their US Senate representation. They had to vote for the President. And all of those people then had to draft the law, which was reported on in the press, and passed. And if the people wanted that law changed, they could probably get it changed. It IS a free country. But we, the People, are sometimes our own worst enemy.

10 posted on 09/24/2002 5:11:44 AM PDT by Huck
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To: kattracks
But Dr. Thomas Frieden, the city health commissioner, confirmed for the Daily News that private clubs have always been part of the ban - assuming they have employees, which most do.

Well, they will have to lay them off and possibly rehire those that smoke as labour contributing members.

11 posted on 09/24/2002 5:18:35 AM PDT by A. Pole
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To: Huck
the reason the pols voted for the new toilets is because most of them know they are crap anyway and they know it takes a lot of water to flush a big ole "loggerhead" so they cut back on the water so they would have a chance to grab the rim and pull themselves out before going completely down the pipe.
12 posted on 09/24/2002 5:20:51 AM PDT by cajun-jack
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To: kattracks
But you can't argue with the science.

Oh, the Goddess of Science the Inexorable and Tyrannical Mistress speaking through her high priests - Policially Correct Dogooders. We have no choice but to grovel and accept our slavery.

Curious thing - Communists also claim that their doctrine is scientifically irrefutable. (Official name of Marxism - is Scientific Socialism). Do we deal with the same crowd?

13 posted on 09/24/2002 5:27:30 AM PDT by A. Pole
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To: Calico Cat
What kind of bureaucrat would advocate going up to somebody who's risked his life for his country and order him to stop smoking

The empty-headed bureaucrat who's never served his country, of course.
14 posted on 09/24/2002 5:31:40 AM PDT by WindMinstrel
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To: cajun-jack
Ugh! Jack ! What a word picture you just painted! ;9(
15 posted on 09/24/2002 5:33:15 AM PDT by Ditter
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To: kattracks; SheLion; *puff_list
"I knew going in that would happen," said Oddo, one of the bill's chief sponsors. "But you can't argue with the science. The bottom line is that these are all employees who are being subjected to a dangerous situation."

Oh really?

16 posted on 09/24/2002 5:33:18 AM PDT by metesky
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To: Calico Cat
Why do people tolerate this?

If it doesn't effect them right now, they feel it's not a problem.

Are people such helpless fools that they can't understand the concept of finding another job if you don't like where you work, or finding another place to drink if you don't like smoke?

Yes

Until people start to realize that it's about freedom of choice and not about smoking, we'll just keep losing more rights.

17 posted on 09/24/2002 5:34:19 AM PDT by grania
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To: Huck
And if the people wanted that law changed, they could probably get it changed. It IS a free country.

Well, there are two kinds of freedom - one is freedom of living the way you think is right, the other is freedom to force the chains on everyone. People who freely chose slavery are not free anymore, especially that if many such choices are made the process is irreversible.

18 posted on 09/24/2002 5:47:13 AM PDT by A. Pole
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To: A. Pole
Well, there are two kinds of freedom - one is freedom of living the way you think is right, the other is freedom to force the chains on everyone.

There has always been a limit on how people can live, regardless of what they "think is right." Obviously. And no one individual has the freedom to force chains on anyone.

People who freely chose slavery are not free anymore, especially that if many such choices are made the process is irreversible.

I understand your point. The people give up some of their rights and then it's awfully hard to get them back. I hear you. We have always been free to give our rights away. I think people have gotten better at it over time.

19 posted on 09/24/2002 6:00:14 AM PDT by Huck
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To: grania
If it doesn't effect them right now, they feel it's not a problem.

That's only a small part of the equation. The big part is most are FOR it if it hurts somebody else while not affecting THEM. Makes them feel "special".

20 posted on 09/24/2002 6:47:17 AM PDT by sneakypete
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