Posted on 09/24/2002 3:49:45 AM PDT by kattracks
Mayor Bloomberg's proposal to ban smoking in city bars and restaurants will also include private clubs - those smoke-filled bastions that Bloomberg once suggested would not be covered under his toughest-in-the-nation ban. But the clubs - from yuppie-filled, Ivy League hideaways on Manhattan's upper East Side to scores of American Legion posts that dot Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island and the Bronx - are entering the debate late.
That's partly because Bloomberg mistakenly indicated they would not be included when he first discussed the ban on Aug. 9.
"Private clubs," he told reporters then, "I believe, would not be covered."
But Dr. Thomas Frieden, the city health commissioner, confirmed for the Daily News that private clubs have always been part of the ban - assuming they have employees, which most do.
Frieden said the point of the ban was never to outlaw smoking, but to protect bartenders, waitresses and other workers from secondhand smoke - no matter where they work.
That interpretation also was reiterated last week by the city's Law Department.
"If there has been any lack of clarity on that issue, it will need to get clarified," said Frieden. "Because these are workplaces, too."
The city's decision to include these small locations means smokers will have only two safe havens: at home, or outside on the street. Bars, restaurants and all workplaces - including private offices - will be off-limits under Bloomberg's proposal.
The decision will likely draw awhole new set of players to the debate, among them some of the city's wealthiest powerbrokers - many of whom consider after-dinner cigars a God-given right - and veterans who find comfort in local fraternal halls.
Vet fired up
They will likely be people like Nino Fulgoni, 66, who was enjoying his usual cigar at the Our Lady of Fatima Catholic War Veterans post in East Elmhurst, Queens, when told of the mayor's proposed ban.
"We have veterans here who made it onto Omaha Beach on D-Day," Fulgoni said. "You going to tell them that they can't smoke?"
"They earned their stripes," added Fulgoni, whose post has about 80 members, roughly half of them smokers. "If they want to smoke - let 'em smoke."
Word of the ban's extension to private clubs has been seeping out slowly, mostly as bar owners have met with city officials to analyze the legislation's fine print.
One of those groups is the United Restaurant and Liquor Dealers of Manhattan, whose leaders are actively trying to bring veterans and other private clubgoers into the debate.
"We have been reaching out to these guys," said Brian Rohan, an organizer for the association, whose members - most of them small bar owners - have kicked in $25,000 to fight Bloomberg's proposal. "I think a lot of these guys are in for a shock."
Some City Council members are already feeling the heat. One constituent recently sent Cit Councilman James Oddo (R-S.I.) a poster she found in a bar. It showed Oddo's last name with a black line through the middle, and the words New York Restaurant and Liquor Dealers Association written beneath it.
"I knew going in that would happen," said Oddo, one of the bill's chief sponsors. "But you can't argue with the science. The bottom line is that these are all employees who are being subjected to a dangerous situation."
Yes, I CAN argue with the science, that is the whole point.
According to this article, even Veteran's groups can't get together and smoke in private clubs.
This whole thing is beyond bizarre. Shouldn't it be enough that restaurant owners set the smoking rules in their establishment, and people who don't like it can work or spend their money elsewhere?
What's funny about the USA is hearing people claim "It's a free country" this late in the game. I mean, we have federal regulations on what kind of *toilet* we can own. One can only imagine what manner of craziness is coming. And on our dime, too.
We can tolerate a lot of BS as long as it is happening to someone else and not us. I daresay none of these smokers has had trouble tolerating anti-marijuana laws all these years.
And that regulation was passed with broad bipartisan support. For that regulation to become law, free Americans had to vote for their Congressional representation. They had to vote for their US Senate representation. They had to vote for the President. And all of those people then had to draft the law, which was reported on in the press, and passed. And if the people wanted that law changed, they could probably get it changed. It IS a free country. But we, the People, are sometimes our own worst enemy.
Well, they will have to lay them off and possibly rehire those that smoke as labour contributing members.
Oh, the Goddess of Science the Inexorable and Tyrannical Mistress speaking through her high priests - Policially Correct Dogooders. We have no choice but to grovel and accept our slavery.
Curious thing - Communists also claim that their doctrine is scientifically irrefutable. (Official name of Marxism - is Scientific Socialism). Do we deal with the same crowd?
Oh really?
If it doesn't effect them right now, they feel it's not a problem.
Are people such helpless fools that they can't understand the concept of finding another job if you don't like where you work, or finding another place to drink if you don't like smoke?
Yes
Until people start to realize that it's about freedom of choice and not about smoking, we'll just keep losing more rights.
Well, there are two kinds of freedom - one is freedom of living the way you think is right, the other is freedom to force the chains on everyone. People who freely chose slavery are not free anymore, especially that if many such choices are made the process is irreversible.
There has always been a limit on how people can live, regardless of what they "think is right." Obviously. And no one individual has the freedom to force chains on anyone.
People who freely chose slavery are not free anymore, especially that if many such choices are made the process is irreversible.
I understand your point. The people give up some of their rights and then it's awfully hard to get them back. I hear you. We have always been free to give our rights away. I think people have gotten better at it over time.
That's only a small part of the equation. The big part is most are FOR it if it hurts somebody else while not affecting THEM. Makes them feel "special".
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