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Bloomberg Seeks to Ban Smoking in Every Restaurant and Bar
The New York Times ^ | August 9, 2002 | JENNIFER STEINHAUER

Posted on 08/09/2002 1:47:28 AM PDT by sarcasm

The Bloomberg administration will ask the City Council to amend New York City's antismoking law to include all restaurants and bars, making it one of the toughest in the nation.

The current law, passed in 1995, forbids smoking in all restaurants with more than 35 seats, and excludes stand-alone bars and the bar areas of all restaurants. The proposed amendment would add roughly 13,000 establishments that would be forced to ban smoking entirely.

A state bill banning smoking in all restaurants passed the Assembly this year and had enough support to pass in the Senate. But under pressure from Gov. George E. Pataki, who insisted on exempting small restaurants, and a heavy lobbying campaign by restaurant groups and the tobacco and liquor industries, the Senate's Republican leaders never put the bill to a vote.

However, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg — who, along with his health commissioner, Dr. Thomas R. Frieden, is persistently anti-tobacco — views bars and restaurants as workplaces before social establishments, and has said that employees within them should have the same option of a smoke-free environment as those who work in offices.

"The mayor will push this," one administration official said, "for all the same reasons he pushed the cigarette tax. He makes changes to things that he thinks are important."

Mr. Bloomberg gained approval from Albany this year to raise the taxes on cigarettes, making the cost of a pack about $7.50 in the city. The administration is expected to announce its plans to amend the antismoking law on Monday. Even cigar bars, if they serve alcohol, are likely to be included in the legislation.

In the last month, the mayor has quietly lined up support in the Council, where several members are likely to sponsor a bill at his request forcing all smoking New Yorkers to do their puffing outdoors. (Under the 1995 law, smoking was outlawed in public places like theaters and offices.)

Among those consulted was Councilman James S. Oddo from Staten Island, who came up with his own more modest bill this spring to expand the smoking laws to small restaurants. Hearings were never held on the bill.

"The health commissioner and the mayor make a very compelling argument for legislation that goes well beyond my bill," he said yesterday. "I am seriously considering sponsoring it."

Edward Skyler, a spokesman for Mr. Bloomberg, would not comment last night.

Timothy Filler, the associate director of Americans for Nonsmokers' Rights, said the amendment "would be hugely significant."

"New York is a bellwether and a city that many others look toward as a leader," he added. "If New York City were to do something that included restaurants and bars, it would be a great step forward in public health."

The city is bound to meet some resistance from both some restaurants and bars and those that represent them, although the New York State Restaurant Association recently reversed its longstanding opposition to the proposed state law after a survey showed that 76 percent of its 7,000 members favored the law.

"Our position has been that we have some of the strictest rules in the country, and we have learned to live with them, and we think they should be left alone," said E. Charles Hunt, the executive vice president of the restaurant association.

However, he added: "If a total ban is proposed in all public places, I think people are going to say nobody has an advantage over anyone else and would seriously consider whether or not that might work. The whole thing seems to be boiling down to an employee safety issue at this point."

Lawmakers in Nassau and Suffolk Counties are considering similar measures, officials there said.

If such a law were passed, New York City would join two states — California and Delaware — and scores of municipalities that ban smoking in just about every workplace, including bars and restaurants.

Three other states — Maine, Utah and Vermont — have statewide bans on smoking in all restaurants. Municipalities have been more aggressive in seeking tough and broad antismoking laws, largely because local legislatures are less vulnerable to the powerful tobacco industry lobby.

New York State law requires that a restaurant have a nonsmoking area that encompasses at least 70 percent of its seats, but the smoking area can be in the same room.

There are 72 municipalities in America that ban smoking in any restaurant or bar, according to Mr. Filler, and hundreds offer some other variation on a law against public smoking, allowing people to light up in stand-alone bars, or permitting smoking in restaurant bars that have separate ventilation systems.

In California, where the Legislature passed a law in 1994 that banned smoking in all workplaces, including bars and restaurants, many tavern and restaurant owners feared dire economic consequences. Some studies, including one by the state's sales tax collection agency in 1998, actually showed an increase in sales after the law was enacted.

"I don't believe a New Yorker would choose a steakhouse in Weehawken over Ruth's Chris in New York City because of a smoking regulation," Mr. Oddo said yesterday.

Mr. Bloomberg, who has a school of public health named after him, is aggressively antismoking. When he lobbied for his cigarette tax, he insisted that he did not care whether the city made or lost money, but rather that the tax would keep children from smoking. He has been known to chide reporters for their puffing, and has takes slaps at the tobacco industry in speeches.

He has found a kindred spirit in Dr. Frieden, the health commissioner, who said when he was appointed that his main priority would be to combat smoking. Dr. Frieden has even produced a radio advertisement deploring secondhand smoke.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: pufflist
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To: Born to Conserve
There is much truth to that - the reason we don't go out much is because we can't stand smelling like an ashtray at the end of the evening. If we knew there would be no smoking in a place, we would go there often.
21 posted on 08/09/2002 4:35:38 AM PDT by meowmeow
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To: sarcasm
News flash, y'all: Bloomberg is a leftist, Socialist twit. How much more proof are you New Yorkers going to need?
22 posted on 08/09/2002 4:37:19 AM PDT by RightOnline
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To: Born to Conserve
In my area, the bar that went no smoking has become the busiest bar, the delicatessen that banned smoking has become the busiest delicatessen, the steakhouse that banned smoking has become the busiest steakhouse, etc.

When I go out with a sizable group of people, the number one factor deciding where we go is haw bad the place stinks of smoke (and how bad we stink of smoke after we leave).

If you are wondering if nicotine is addictive, just watch the reaction to these smoking bans. They react with terror in their words.

Smokers are sad and pathetic.

Not nearly as sad and pathetic as those who seek to make their own personal prejudices into law.

If non-smoking bars were really that succesful, don't you think more bar owners would ban it? The fact is they aren't, and indeed in this area any bar that banned smoking would be closed in six months. If that weren't true most places, there'd be no push for legal bans.

By the way, I'm a part time bar employee and a non-smoker. I'd rather not be "protected" out of my extra $$$ by Big Brother, thank you very much.

-Eric

23 posted on 08/09/2002 4:42:23 AM PDT by E Rocc
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To: sarcasm; SheLion
Three other states — Maine, Utah and Vermont — have statewide bans on smoking in all restaurants.

This is true for Maine only if you call yourself a restaurant.

Lounges and taverns that serve food can purchase a special license (read: pay a special tax) which allows smoking. There are at least five within driving distance of my house, thank God. One I could hit with a seven iron.

24 posted on 08/09/2002 4:54:13 AM PDT by metesky
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To: sarcasm
"Our position has been that we have some of the strictest rules in the country, and we have learned to live with them, and we think they should be left alone," said E. Charles Hunt, the executive vice president of the restaurant association.

Ever notice that these restaurant associations are among the most politically inept organizations going? Helpless, go along to get along. If I belonged, I'd be asking for a refund.

However, he added: "If a total ban is proposed in all public places, I think people are going to say nobody has an advantage over anyone else and would seriously consider whether or not that might work. The whole thing seems to be boiling down to an employee safety issue at this point."

If non-smoking is such a popular thing, why would anyplace be considered to have an advantage if they allowed smoking?

Just asking.

25 posted on 08/09/2002 5:02:07 AM PDT by metesky
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: one_particular_harbour
Salt. Too true. And what's with those Morton folks putting a cute little girl with an umbrella on the front of their product, huh??? I mean, huh??? What's up with that? Using children to sell a deadly, guaranteed-to-boost-your-blood-pressure product??????

I smell lawsuit........!!!

27 posted on 08/09/2002 5:06:53 AM PDT by RightOnline
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: meowmeow; Born to Conserve
Boo hoo! These sad and pathetic people stink and they think they have a right to eat and drink in public! Oh, please GodGov, save us from these cave people. Boo hoo!

What's really pathetic, you non-conservatives, is your willingness to use the gub'mint to make everyone and every place conform to your blindered vision of Utopia.

What about the rights of the bar/restaurant owner to cater to the clientele he/she wishes to? Do they not own the property? Doesn't it say right on their license that they can refuse service to anyone, for any reason?

29 posted on 08/09/2002 5:10:44 AM PDT by metesky
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To: sarcasm
I don't mind people smoking in restaurants...as long as they don't exhale.
30 posted on 08/09/2002 5:16:58 AM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: *puff_list
!?
31 posted on 08/09/2002 5:17:57 AM PDT by metesky
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To: Born to Conserve
In my area, the bar that went no smoking has become the busiest bar, the delicatessen that banned smoking has become the busiest delicatessen, the steakhouse that banned smoking has become the busiest steakhouse, etc.

...Smokers are sad and pathetic.

I'm a former smoker, and frankly, what I miss the most is the atmosphere where everyone is sitting around, talking, relaxing, enjoying a few smokes and brews.

But your attitude...you really don't get it. In your area, there are bars, restaurants, and delis that chose to ban smoking, and you choose to go to them, and they do just fine with their decision.

But that's the point...it's a choice. If other business owners choose to allow smoking, and other people choose them, and you don't, that's their decision to forgo your business.

It's something that we used to have...freedom of choice. If you expressed your attitude about any other group, it would be a "hate crime".

32 posted on 08/09/2002 5:21:49 AM PDT by grania
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To: grania
But that's the point...it's a choice.

If someone is smoking in a restaurant, what choice do I have? Can I choose not to breathe it? No. My choice to breathe clean, smoke-free air is taken away from me.

It's like this, I have as absolute freedom to swing my arms as wildly as I like UNTIL I get within arms reach of someone else.
33 posted on 08/09/2002 5:27:06 AM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: Your Nightmare
If someone is smoking in a restaurant, what choice do I have? Can I choose not to breathe it? No. My choice to breathe clean, smoke-free air is taken away from me.

You can choose to go to another restaurant, assuming no one kidnapped you and dragged you into the smoking-allowed establishment.

34 posted on 08/09/2002 5:37:09 AM PDT by grania
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To: grania
You can choose to go to another restaurant

So your presumed right to smoke is greater than my right to breathe clean, healthy air? Don't think so.

If you like to smoke with your meals, you have a choice to stay at home.
35 posted on 08/09/2002 5:52:14 AM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: Born to Conserve
Silly me, I chose my eating places based on the quality of the food.

Now if we get to ban things that offend some of us in public places, I am for banning children, they tend to loud, rude and undisplined ruining my dining experience. Alcohol should be banned in restaurants (that what saloons are for) also, it tends to make people turn into loud, boisterous, stumbling drunks spillings drink(alcohol smells bad) on other diners, again ruining the experience. Lets do away with slopply dressers too.

Let's keep the fat ugly drunk smokers in their bar and grills, so we elite gourmet diners can eat in peace in our la-de-da restaurants.

36 posted on 08/09/2002 5:55:54 AM PDT by razorback-bert
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To: Your Nightmare
If someone is smoking in a restaurant, what choice do I have? Can I choose not to breathe it? No. My choice to breathe clean, smoke-free air is taken away from me.

There it is. Your statement is semantically, philosophically and fundamentally indistinguishable from a little four-year old girl whining; "But Mommy! I want the toy! Gimme me the toy Mommy!"

I'm reminded of a line from the movie "Flashback" (starring Dennis Hopper): "This used to be a bar, a real bar damn it! Now it's a friggin' fern boutique!"

37 posted on 08/09/2002 6:15:15 AM PDT by handk
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To: handk
What? Maybe you should stick to cigarettes and lay off the crack.
38 posted on 08/09/2002 6:19:44 AM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: sarcasm
Even our President is against hurting the small business person. So why is Bloomberg going against our President?

"The role of government is not to create wealth. The role of government is to create an environment in which the entrepreneur or small business or dreamer can flourish. And that starts with rule of law, respect of private property, less regulatory burdens on the entrepreneur, open banking laws so that all people have access to capital, and good tax policy."

President George W. Bush St. Petersburg University, St. Petersburg, Russia May 25, 2002

39 posted on 08/09/2002 6:23:39 AM PDT by SheLion
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To: sarcasm; All
MSNBC wants to hear our opinions about Bloombergs anti smoking deal. We should all send email telling them just what we think!

You can email MSNBC at:

question@msnbc.com

40 posted on 08/09/2002 6:31:32 AM PDT by SheLion
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