"I'M ASHAMED OF THIS" Interview with a 'copter Wildfire Fighter.

The Lars Larson Show ^ | 8/02/02 | AuntB

[AuntB]

The following is a transcribed portion of an interview aired today on the Lars Larson radio program from Portland, Or., which is broadcast across the Northwest from noon to 4:00 P.M. pacific. There is little I can add to his exchange with the executive vice-president of a company that supplies helicopter service to the US Forest service to show the inept and dangerous policies of this bureaucracy. Please bring these disclosures to your congress people’s attention and demand the policy of silence and media blackout practiced by the Forest Service and environmental groups stop. Our homes, forests and lives are being destroyed and YOU, the taxpayers are funding it.

***** Lars Larson: [Our radio affiliate, KCMX, Medford, Or – The Morning Express with Garth & Rosemary, 880 AM] called me this morning and said Mark Lindamood (sp) has just an unbelievable story to tell about Carson Helicopter and some work it’s been doing for the Forest Service in fighting these forest fires. Mark, why don’t you tell people how many helicopters you have up there working on behalf of the public to get those fires put out.

ML: Well, today we have 9 aircraft flying on the Toolbox fire, Timbered Rock, and the Southbisquit Fire.

LL: …people should realize that at one point, Mark’s helicopter pilots were told to stop taking water out of a pond to fight fires….Mark, why did your pilots decide that was a good pond to take water out of to dump on that fire?

ML: First let me preface this with the Oregon State dept. of Forestry is who we are working with on the Timbered Rock fire and in my opinion, as having done this for thousands of hours and many years, the Oregon State Dept. of Forestry is by far and above the best fire fighting team in the whole nation. These guys are absolute professionals and they were working on TR fire headed up by Phil Hostetter (sp). They found a dried out pond on the Josephine/Jackson County line. They took a dozer up, bladed out the pond a little bit, knocked down a couple trees I think, and that gave us good ingress and egress for our giant water buckets……

We flew out of that for a day or so, it shortened the turn around time from 10 minutes down to 2 or 3 minutes. And they kept the pond filled with water trucks that came up from Lost Creek or Elk Creek, someplace and kept the pond filled……BUT, we were just on the other side of the US Forest Service line and we were within their boundaries. So they came up yesterday (8/1) and shut the pond down and they gated it and prohibited trucks from coming in. Their reason for this was…. we didn’t ask for permission and they didn’t have what is called a “Dip Site Manager” on site. This is a problem that pervades the whole helicopter industry and it’s part of the USFS big overall problem. So they shut us down and we went back to running about a 10 minute flight for water.

Now, that land we we're on…… was not a park, it was not a road less area, it was not a wilderness area, it was a multiple use forest service property. In other words, YOUR PROPERTY…..

They finally got a “dip site manager” in, who by the way, sits on the heli-base about 15, 20 miles from the dig site and he or she brought their paperwork in………but that pond is not opened up yet because they are still trying to sort it out and that’s about a day and a half that’s gone by that we can’t use that site.

Listen, it gets worse. We have to wait constantly for these “quote managers”. First of all they’re named wrong, they should be called “liaisons” because when they’re designated “managers” they interpret that in their own mind as “boss”. These are people who are part timers or they work for the forest service full time and work part time as a “manager”. This week we waited for two days waiting for a “manager” with our …aircraft sitting in front of the hanger in the Grants Pass airport 7 miles from a major forest fire that is threatening homes, burning up property, and certainly wasting and burning up our own natural resources. With the USFS we have to have one manager per aircraft…… Under extreme emergencies a manager can handle two type one aircraft. We don’t carry people, we only carry water…….all our pilots have more than 15,000 hours, they all in their fifties, most of them, and we’re waiting on some college student while people’s homes are burning. The worst of it was on the fire in Colorado, near Durango, we had 3 aircraft working along a housing development…….. The three aircraft were keeping the fire away from this sub[division]by laying down retardant. The Columbia (another company) aircraft had to leave in about 20 minutes for fuel. They called our aircraft, which had almost 2 hours of fuel remaining aboard, and told us we had to come in because it’s time for [our] 2 ½ hour rest break. Our guys said they didn’t need the break,[ they were used to flying 10 hour days every day] …….they said you come in and land or you’re going to be in violation….….you have to remember, we have to fly 15 or 20 minutes back to the heli-base, shut the aircraft down, stop the rotors and then start it back up again and fly back out…..by the time our aircraft got back out there the housing development was GONE.

This kind of garbage, this kind of crap is why the president needs authority to fire people in our Homeland Defense. ….these people in the USFS are only interested in their wages, their time off, vacation time, their retirement, THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT OUR RESOURCES…….we have to operate our aircraft when were flying for the USFS at our very minimum. We have a performance section in flight manuals, a limitation section. They take our performance section, which is only there as a guideline, and make us operate on the very minimum of that. …under the guise of safety, USFS is the only place in the world I can work that I’m forced to do the absolute minimum that I can do and get paid the absolute maximum. …..I honestly think now that the USFS doesn’t care about our resources, they only care about their next year’s budget. The bigger their budget is this year, the bigger it will be next year. Their answer to it is to hire more “managers”.

LL: What is it that the public can do to help you get some of the bureaucrats to get off the dime and actually let you and your pilots do their jobs?

ML: They need to get in touch with their congress people, senators. It’s almost like it’s so big now that it’s feeding on itself……….and I will tell you in my opinion, they are at least partially responsible for some of the devastating loss that people have experienced here. We wait…..sometimes 2 days for this “manager” to come, and that may not sound like a long time to the forest service people ……..but if your home is burning or your barn is on fire or you’re losing your timber stand, that is a lifetime of wait.

I want to go back to the 21/2 hour mandatory coffee break…….. I wrote for a rule change….to the National Interagency Fire Center, who hires us, and we ask to change the rule because our aircraft are designed to fly 8 hours. We have special equipment in them that we can fly 8 straight without landing….and we do it every day, day in, day out. J. P. Johnston (sp), the head of the helicopter portion of NIFC told us that we would have to hire a lobbyist …or hire their lobbyist to change that rule.

Our daily availability rate is $19,256.00 plus $2,414.00 for every hour we fly plus all the other fees. We LOVE the money we get. The thing is Lars, I’m personally ashamed. I’m ashamed of this……

[AuntB]

"Where's the rest of the article?"

I'M SORRY! I've been away from here and not posted in so long, the little square seemed logical to check since it wasn't a "complete" interview. ...did not realize what it said when posted.:<( You HAVE to forgive me you know! It's the law.

[Ken H]

In such a situation, the Governor of Oregon should order the USFS folks out and order Oregon fire fighters to get whatever water they need.

It is an emergency, life-saving issue that the USFS has no right to override.

Was the Governor aware of this while it was occuring?

If not, I'd suggest Oregon residents write to him and urge him to get involved.

[Richard Kimball]

For whatever it's worth, get ready for the spin. USFS WILL use their shills in FEMA (remember firefighters have started being federally funded now) to spin that it's those darned lumber companies and clear cutting that's causing the problem.

[AuntB]

Good evening, Good People. Greetings from smokey Southern Oregon.

[AuntB]

Hi, Richard, good to see you. Yes, that spin started a couple weeks ago. It's been hot and heavy especially on NPR. YES, I check out the enemy.....every chance I get.

[AuntB]

Our Governor? Kitzhaber? Mr. Greenjeans? You're not from around here, are you?

Seriously, he's been our biggest enemy. He'd have soon done away with the Klamath Falls farmers as not. And worse. He is crazed by Lars Larson's refusal to back down from the truth. He's out in a few months...term limited, but he's pushing his legacy, big time.

[buffyt]

Da'Asshole is an as*hole. And he has many willing accomplices in media and senate and congress....... He is one sick puppy.

[buffyt]

We often have our share of smoke here in California, too. Good evening to you too!

[AuntB]

Thanks, Punk, you're a doll. I'm calling it a night...going to sneak off and watch John Stossel stick it to the USFS on ABC. Good night!

[swheats]

Please tell me that the "Boss" is no longer in his position.

[Ken H]

Yikes!

Do you think this story will be big enough to rouse the Oregon public?

Or is Green thinking so pervasive that nothing significant will be done?

[Ferris]

Business solves problems where they actually exist...

Government creates problems where they didn't previously exist...

[FireTrack]

Thanks AuntB, not me (I'm from Louisiana) but some of the machines I developed are up there helping out. It's a tracked wildland firefighting apparatus built around surplus M-548 vehicles that cost the tax payers $250,000 dollars each new and were being dumped in the ocean for artificial reefs or used for target practice until we put them to use fighting wildland fires.

So I've had experience trying to work with some of these bureaucrats. Many were good people before the system wore them down. Plus there are still a lot of dedicated and hard working folks out there but protecting ones turf and A$$ seems to take precidence over protecting forests, property and lives.

We have these vehicles all over the US including Northern California, Washington State, Texas, Florida, Arkansas, Louisiana, N.C. and other places.

Btw, it's called a Firetrack... ;-)

I've been pushing for more sophisticated vehicles using the latest technology and for the development of fire fighting units based on this type of equipment with out much success.

Hopefully you folks will get some rain soon. We were all amazed at how early the fire season started this year.

[FireTrack]

I've not had any dealings with him for several years but I suspect he's either still in charge or receiving a nice pension. I'll ask around though... ;-)

[Askel5]

Thanks for the post AuntB. Unbelievable.

[Mudboy Slim]

"...on the fire in Colorado, near Durango, we had 3 aircraft working along a housing development…….. The three aircraft were keeping the fire away from this sub[division]by laying down retardant. The Columbia (another company) aircraft had to leave in about 20 minutes for fuel. They called our aircraft, which had almost 2 hours of fuel remaining aboard, and told us we had to come in because it’s time for [our] 2 ½ hour rest break. Our guys said they didn’t need the break,[ they were used to flying 10 hour days every day] …….they said you come in and land or you’re going to be in violation….….you have to remember, we have to fly 15 or 20 minutes back to the heli-base, shut the aircraft down, stop the rotors and then start it back up again and fly back out…..by the time our aircraft got back out there the housing development was GONE."

SHEEEESH...we really need to get the Feds outta the business of overseeing the maintenance and upkeep of our public lands, but I see nothing but an increase in the amount of acreage under Federal control. These BureaucRATS seem utterly clueless, yet the Senate wants to make it all-but-impossible to fire incompetents and ne'er-do-wells!!

Thanks fer the bump, AuntB, and good luck out there...OpieMUD

[Movemout]

We need to get the feds out of business period. They get in the way of real people and waste our money. We need the military, a few temporary diplomats, some research and development, and minimum regulation in certain areas. Beyond that we need them to go away.

[c-b 1]

I don't think my State Senator McCain would give a darn.

The only way he would care is if it would get him in front of a TV camera.

[Mudboy Slim]

"We need to get the feds out of business period....We need the military, a few temporary diplomats, some research and development, and minimum regulation in certain areas"

No argument here...in fact, you've just described the Founding Father's vision for America as described in the U.S. Constitution.

FReegards...MUD