What makes you think you have the right to tell the bar owner/pool hall owner what he can do with his business? If you want a smoke free bar/poolhall, start one or find one that is already voluntarily smoke free. You have that right, but not the right to tell someone else they have to accomodate your preferences.
With condolences on your loss let me say that the evil cigarettes didn't jump out of the pack light themselves on fire and force your dad and sister to inhale. People are responsible for the consequences of their own actions.
Maybe then I could go out to a bar or a pool hall without being assaulted by unwanted and unhealthy tobacco smoke and made ill.
Guess what, if you don't like the smoke (or can't tolerate it) find a bar that's less smokey or don't go. If the bar owner decides he wants to permit smoking then he has the right to do that. It's his property and you are their under his rules. Stop whining. No one is forcing you to go there
As conservatives you have to realize that your right to the pursuit of happiness ends when it endangers someone else's health - and smoking in public or in the presence of nonsmokers does exactly that.
Depends where they are. In a privately owned building the owner makes the rules. If the smoke bother you, don't go there.
And that is why legislation like this is happening.
No legislation like this is happening because some people are trying to erode our property rights. It is an evil usurption of our rights
Now let me add that I am an anti-smoker. I figure that a smoker gets what he deserves. I even have a button that says "Cancer cures smoking". But they have the right to do it if they so decide and I cannot steal someone's property by supporting rules for his property that he doesn't agree with.
P.S. Be braced for severe flaming from the smoking lobby here
God Save America (Please)
Bar owners (should) have free will to decide whether or not their establishment allows smoking.
Customers, of their own free will, vote with their feet and their dollars. If they like the bar's policy (smoking or not), they'll patronize the establishment. If not, they'll go somewhere with a policy more to their liking. The free market (conservatives claim to like) will dictate the smoking policy.
The bar owner takes responsibility for his choice. If he chooses poorly, he loses customers and his business fails.
The customers take responsibility for their choices as well. If they choose to smoke, or frequent establishments that allow smoking, they and they alone are responsible for the consequences. No one made them smoke. No one made them go into a bar that allowed smoking. They did that by themselves. Therefore no one but they are responsible.
While you have my condolences for the loss of your father and sister, their deaths are the result of their own conscious decision they made to smoke. Period.
inflicting your unwanted, nasty and unhealthy smoke on other people who don't want anything to do with it and who are physically harmed by it isn't just rude - it's morally wrong. And that is why legislation like this is happening.
Infringing upon free will and personal responsibility, not to mention property rights is not only wrong, it is morally indefensible. This nanny like crusade to protect people of themselves is socialistic, and liberal by definition. It supposes that the people cannot be trusted to live their own lives, and that the elite must make laws, and use force against them for their own good. If that is what being conservative has become, then I want to part of it.
These laws come about because people don't want to take responsibilty for their own actions. They want their cake and eat it too. They want to be reckless and yet be saved from the consequences of their own actions. In short, they are foolish and greedy.
BTW, my grandmother died of emphysema due to her choice to smoke. And I have chosen not to smoke.
As much as I think smoking is stupid, a bar is not a public place.
What really cheeses me off about anti-whatever zealots of all sorts, is their smug "we know better than you do" attitude. VERY liberal-like.
I'll also note that 50% of your posts here on FR, since you joined on 7/10/2002, are anti-smoking. So tell us, what's your REAL agenda, friend ??? Find a bar that caters to non-smokers. . .
Smoking in a private place...
A pool hall is an entirely private place, and no one amongst us has any excuse for imposing rules on the owners and customers of such an establishment.
What in the hell is next? Are we going to ban swearing in bars, because it might rub off on others?
Andrew
When my number is up, I don't think the Good Lord will have cared if I smoked or not. None of us are going to get out of here alive.
And there are plenty of places for you to go where you do not have to be around second hand smoke. Which, by the way, is not the killer that the Anti's claim it to be.
Spend your own money and open your own smoke free bar or pool hall and leave the other guy's PRIVATE property alone.
When you go out of business in about 90 days or so, I can buy the joint and let in whoever the hell I please.
L
You didn't explain clearly how your father and sister died, but you seem to imply that it was due to environmental tobacco smoke. If that is in fact what you're saying, I'll have to reply "balderdash." Do you, an obviously educated person, actually believe that if smoking were prohibited tomorrow, no one else would die of the very same "smoking-related" diseases?
Maybe then I could go out to a bar or a pool hall without being assaulted by unwanted and unhealthy tobacco smoke and made ill.
Assaulted? I beg your pardon. Tell you what: If anyone ever FORCES you into a smoker-friendly place OR if anyone ever PROHIBITS you from opening a smoker-hostile bar or pool hall, you let us know here at Free Republic. We'll fight for YOUR right to stay away from smokers or to put your own hard earned money, your blood, sweat and tears into a place of YOUR liking.
As conservatives you have to realize that your right to the pursuit of happiness ends when it endangers someone else's health - and smoking in public or in the presence of nonsmokers does exactly that.
Oops, you overstepped and fell into the typical anti-smoker bog of fallacious logic here. Dang, I need to brush up on those logical fallacies again. I forget whether this is "argument by selective observation" or "hypothesis contrary to fact" or simply "poisoning the well," but it doesn't wash. Risks are all around us every day, and risks MUST be put in perspective if public policy is to be based on them--particularly public policy that demonstrably harms others.
Smoking in a private place among other smokers or smoking in the open away from others is the harmless pursuit of your own happiness,
So where's the problem? Restaurants, bars, pool halls, etc., ARE private places and if the owner's policy allows smoking, your statement above describes exactly what occurs: "Smoking in a private place among other smokers..." Anti-smokers and others who just don't want to partake of the ambience there should use their personal autonomy and stay away.
but inflicting your unwanted, nasty and unhealthy smoke on other people who don't want anything to do with it and who are physically harmed by it isn't just rude - it's morally wrong. And that is why legislation like this is happening.
Under the circumstances above, how on earth could you say smokers are "inflicting" ANYTHING on "other people who don't want anything to do with it"? If they don't want anything to do with it, they won't be there. Seems very clear to me. You are, however, totally wrong about the reason legislation like this is happening. Which everyone else here knows and you don't care because you're blinded by your hatred of smoking.
Save your own life and quit smoking now. Had you seen how horribly my father and sister died you would never go near tobacco again in your life.
It's always disappointing to me to read such drivel from an obviously intelligent, educated person. Just goes to show that education can never take the place of common sense.
According to your logic, if I take my ten-year-old to the multiplex, and sit with her in a theater showing a film with an "R" rating, I should be able to have the movie stopped because it may be harming her.
According to your logic, someone with a severe peanut allergy should be able to stop you and your friends from eating peanuts in a bar or restaurant because it threatens his life.
when it endangers someone else's health - and smoking in public or in the presence of nonsmokers does exactly that
Enacting law based on allegation is the sneakiest form of tyranny. Either PROVE second hand smoke endangers your health, or shut up. You and your commrades over at global warming will not be happy until liberty is defeated. You make a good soldier in the service of the tyrannt.
Tell us more about your deceased loved ones, what was their life style like? What kind of exercise programs did they participate in if any. What were their eating habits? What kind of foods did they prefer? Did they in any way do ANYTHING to improve their health?
Bottom line: You wanna whine, go to the party store! You wanna shoot pool, go down the street and leave our beer drinking, cigarette smoking pool hall alone because me and the other folks who hang out there don't mind it a damn bit!
For what it's worth, my grandmother died 4 years ago at the age of 99 and smoked since she was 14 years old. My grandfather died 3 years before her and also smoked.
You want sympathy, buy yourself a dictionary and support a socialist........
This is nothing more than a cheap emotional/illogical attempt to take away rights. Because James Brady was shot, his wife wants to ban all guns, ignoring the Constitution. Because someone got hit by a drunk driver, they want to ban all alcohol. The list goes on. The only conclusion a rational person can arrive at is that everyone dies of something eventually.
Why not let the free market handle it? If so many people despise cigarette smoke then surely there will be plenty of nonsmoking bars in order to cater to them. Likewise plenty of people enjoy smoking and want to enjoy a night out while smoking. The decision is the property owners as to what to allow on his property, and the customers as to whether or not they choose to frequent the establishment.
BTW, I am not a smoker. But I respect their rights to make their own decisions.
You confuse your feelings with others'.
It doesn't matter how you die, it matters how you live.
MYOB will always be good advice, I don't care if it was Dear Abby or her evil twin who popularized the phrase(acronym).