AMNESTY by BUSH - The Truth about Section 245(i)

March 19th, 2002 | Compiled by Sabertooth

[Sabertooth]

The GWB Team made a mistake supporting/pushing this provision of the bill. Amnesty was a "sore" topic when it was first passed in the mid 1990's. After 9-11, after the INS fiasco with the Atta entry approval, the GWB Team should have looked at the polls reflecting the mood of the Nation on this issue. Most polls were 80%+ opposed to amnesty--due in part to the recent attacks on America.

GWB Team may have been playing political "strategery" with this--but many of the people opposing amnesty will see it as a sell out. GWB Team has given the Dems a hot button issue. Bad "strategery" for GWB.

Can't argue with that.

[Sabertooth]

We have a few dozen shills (if that many) who keep telling us that we're xenophobic idiots who refuse to read the bill, while they haven't read it themselves and instead are defending the ABC News version.

Precisely.

Rather amusing when you go to the source they claim supports them, and suddenly our own reading comprehension is not sufficient.

Time to call in the "experts."

[Dane]

But if you can find any citizen or resident immigrant who will simply assert that you were working for them prior to August 2001, and will sponsor you, then you also are eligible.

And if any company does that for someone who didn't have the proper paperwork, they get fined.

The above italicized passage is for those you hired people with the proper paperwork, but due to INS mix ups or their own lapses, became illegal. Those are the people who are going to get sponsored.

And it will be about 200,000 people.

[angkor]

such as entering on a valid visa getting married and the beauacracy makes them illegal because their visa ran out.

You should take a look at some of the Usenet discussion lists on marital and fiancee visas. The procedures and the rules are quite clear, and most people follow them. Brits, Canadians, French, everyone.

So why on earth should an exception be made for scofflaws? The entire procedure for entering the US on a fiancee visa takes 60 to 90 days, and a marital visa 6 to 12 months. Is there some sort of excessive burden in that? There shouldn't be, since the issuance of a legal family visa is virtually 100 percent guaranteed, and is processed as a first priority visa by both the State Dept. and the INS. There is no higher priority visa than a family reunification visa.

Given that, what could possibly be the moral justification for forcing so many to adhere to the procedures, yet allowing so many more to avoid the legal process? What is the problem with the eligible citizens going home, applying for a legal famiily visa, and returning within 60 to days to a year?

Dane, I cannot fathom your incessant whining about a process that is clear, legal, guaranteed, and morally fair.

[BOBTHENAILER]

For the 245i mods, scroll down to Section 607 at the bottom and click

Nice site. I saved it for future help in reading what our elected reps are doing.

Thanks a million for the help. Hopefully Byrd's actions will postpone the divisive nature of this bill, giving a reasonable time for something suitable to be worked out.

[Dane]

If you entered the United States unlawfully, if you entered with permission but did not stay in lawful status, or if you worked without permission, you normally would have to leave the United States in order to apply for an immigrant visa. Special rules under section 245(i) may allow you to apply to adjust status without leaving the United States.

Where are those special rules. You never posted those. And it says may apply, not automatically granted.

[Sabertooth]

Thanks a million for the help. Hopefully Byrd's actions will postpone the divisive nature of this bill, giving a reasonable time for something suitable to be worked out.

Thanks for being fair-minded and looking at the legislation.

[Miss Marple]

Let me boil this down so that maybe we can have some OTHER NEWS without constant immigration arguments:

1. Those who are angry consider any amnesty, for even 200,000 people (and those numbers are if ALL apply and are accepted) a betrayal, because somehow they expected that President Bush would do NOTHING to help these people, even though Bush said so repeatedly.

2. Robert Byrd is now on our side because he is blocking this bill, never mind that the major portion of it involves SECURING THE BORDERS to cut down on FUTURE illegal immigration.

3. Byrd also blocked the FIRST bill that the House passed, even though it did NOT contain the 245(i) extension, but that isn't important, since what really counts is that we not be merciful to any illegal immigrants, no matter how they wound up being illegal (as in bureaucratic snafus).

4. President Bush is at fault for not reforming the INS and firing people, even though in order to do both he must have Congressional action, which is blocked by the hero Robert Byrd.

5. Despite strengthening the military, lowering our taxes, rolling back Clintonian EO's, appointing a stellar cabinet, conducting himself with honor, and generally leading the country better than anyone, even his supporters, could hope, because of this ONE clause in a bill that will be nice to some unfortunate people who are trying to make a better life and contribute to our country, certain people will vote for a third party or a democrat (same difference) because the MOST important thing is NOT any other issue, or the sum total of the presidency, but rather whether or not we can be totally inflexible and hard-nosed to every single person with illegal status, especially Mexicans.

[Sabertooth]

1. Those who are angry consider any amnesty, for even 200,000 people (and those numbers are if ALL apply and are accepted) a betrayal, because somehow they expected that President Bush would do NOTHING to help these people, even though Bush said so repeatedly.

Actually, I was expecting the President to protect the borders and uphold our laws, or something like that.

When he doesn't, it's disappointing.

In any case, I'm pleased that you're in the "Amnesty Non-Denial" column.

[Miss Marple]

To refresh your memory, my discussions were about BLANKET amesty. I am not certain that this would be called a true amnesty, since there are so many qualifications involved.

However, if you want to claim victory on this point, be my guest.

[Sabertooth]

To refresh your memory, my discussions were about BLANKET amesty. I am not certain that this would be called a true amnesty, since there are so many qualifications involved.

I'm well aware of what your discussions were about.

To refresh your own memory, my discussions weren't about "blanket amnesty." Any such that I saw were of those playing that particular straw man on behalf of President Bush.

Now you're falling back on "true amnesty?"

When did the Rule of Law go out of favor with so many Republicans?

Letting Illegals stay in America = Amnesty for those Illegals.

[iopscusa]

Good Lord people!!! We were attacked from within our borders by these same types of immigrants/illegals/non-US citizens. This is a National Emergency...close the borders, fix the INS or get rid of it and if this is not done, the least we do is stop paying taxes until it's done or until we elect the people who will do the right thing!! PS: if Senator Byrd or Helms speak the truth I'll listen...

[Brownie74]

Worked in the U.S. while being an "unauthorized alien."

Another new buzz word to add to my growing list.

I am going to hold Bush's feet to the fire on this one.

Bush says he won't legalize immigrants.

Speaking to reporters in Washington, Bush said he hoped to work with Mexico on the matter, but said he would follow the will of the U.S. people.

"I don't think the wish of Americans is for an amnesty," said Bush, who added he had spoken about the issue with President Vicente Fox.

If the Bush administration has been reading the polls (and I know they have) then they know that the majority of the American people do not want amnesty. This ZOGBY POLL has some interesting information in it. Post # 77.

So Mr. Bush - do the will of the U.S. citizen and forget this amnesty insanity!!

[Brian Allen]

Thank you, 'Tooth. You're a Gem!

[4Freedom]

MM, most of us recognized this for what it was. Another ploy by a pandering politician to incrimentally offer amnesty to all of the millions, mostly Mexican, illegal aliens in the United States, AGAIN.

I don't know how you can read this extention, with all of it's loopholes, and come to the conclusion that it's targeted at anyone. That's all in your own mind. Stop listening to the con artists in this adminstration and read it for yourself. A good immigration attorney could probably get Osama Bin Laden a green card under this extension.>sarcasm<

Most of us are fed up. We've seen what happened the last time our government offered the last 'last' amnesty. IT DIDN'T WORK! We don't want to get started down that road, again.

We want the borders sealed and we want to see a serious effort at deportation.

We want the Army Corps of Engineers to build fences where there are none and re-inforce those we already have.

We don't want the border patrol stationed 20 miles from the borders.

We don't want the Mexican military to be able to cross over our borders as many as 60 miles and, as soon as NAFTA is phased in, eventually 200 miles.

That's just for starters.

We want Bush to address our concerns first and not those of Vicente Fox.

Bush has got it all 'bass-ackwards' and he better get it straightened out before election time.

[harpseal]

BTT

[Miss Marple]

Then why weren't you folks ranting about Byrd holding up the immigration reform bill BEFORE this extension was added when the House passed it the second time? The other parts of the bill tighten border security. I didn't see a single one of you guys ranting and raving about Byrd blocking this when it was passed before.

Forgive me if I think that your motives aren't totally pure. I can believe people who are my elected officials, or I can believe a bunch of people who are exaggerating and making claims about blanket amnesty. When one points out that President Bush says NO blanket amnesty, you guys just howl that that's not what he really means.

Do we need securer borders? Yes. Do I support illegal immigration? No. Do I think that SOMETIMES we have to make compromises and show some mercy? Yes. Do I think that Bush is going to open the borders? No.

Are you going to erect a fence all the way between Mexico and the US? That is thousands of miles and would take years to erect. Who is going to maintain it so that people don't cut holes in it? Are you going to have divisions of the Army patrolling? Given our commitments to the war on terror I think we might not have the troops. Then what..call up the National Guard? That has already been done, and they do have other things to do as well.

The solution to the problem is to get Mexico to help and to help Mexico make conditions such that people will stay home. This extension is part of that plan.

But if it makes you happier to think that you are betrayed and that this has an easy solution, if only the President would LISTEN, well just go right ahead.

You have written him a letter outlining your plan to solve this, haven't you?

[4Freedom]

We don't need another bill passed to tighten border security. WE MERELY HAVE TO ENFORCE THE LAWS THAT ARE ALREADY ON THE BOOKS! I'm still waiting, over 20 years, for all employers that hire illegal aliens to be fined and jailed. Read the last, last 'Amnesty Act of '86'.

Our nation built the most extensive system of highways, bridges, waterways and railroads in the history of the planet. You say we can't build a fence? You say it will take the Army Corps of Engineers years to re-inforce the fences we already have and build them where they aren't?

I say you don't know what you are talking about.

[iopscusa]

"Are you going to erect a fence all the way between Mexico and the US?...Given our commitments to the war on terror I think we might not have the troops. Then what... The solution to the problem is to get Mexico to help"???? What a bunch of excuses you make...the solution to the problem is not MEXICO, wake up this is a NATIONAL EMERGENCY, close the borders asap and do it by whatever means are neccessary...troops, citizens, Marines... etc. Set up the new Berlin Wall...we can ill afford not to! All illegals are criminals until proven otherwise!!!! We owe these people nothing, we will accept new prospective citizens only by our (US Citizens) rules!! We have the resources, do we have the will...yet.

[FITZ]

Entered the U.S. without being inspected by an INS official.

That pretty much applies to all illegals ---including the ones here to bring drugs.