Posted on 02/24/2002 8:50:08 PM PST by mdittmar
A Fort Bragg soldier taking part in an exercise off the base was killed and another was injured in a shooting after a sheriff’s deputy stopped them on a rural road, authorities said.
The soldiers were taking part in a role-playing exercise that is part of the Special Forces Qualification Course, according to a statement from the Moore County Sheriff’s Department.
The soldiers were carrying weapons, but they do not carry live ammunition during the exercise, Maj. Richard Patterson of the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School told The Fayetteville Observer.
“The two soldiers were not in uniform. For various scenarios within the exercise, that’s not uncommon,” said a Special Forces spokesman. “They were going out to do reconnaissance of a target that was going to be used for a future mission in the exercise,” the spokesman said.
The newspaper reported that the soldiers were in a vehicle that was stopped by Deputy Randall Butler on a rural road northwest of Robbins on Saturday afternoon. Robbins is about 25 miles from the Fort Bragg reservation.
The sheriff’s department would not comment on why Butler stopped the vehicle or why he drew his weapon. No charges had been filed Sunday. Butler was placed on administrative leave with pay.
Sheriff Frank Johnson was out of town and couldn’t be reached by telephone Sunday.
UNDER INVESTIGATION
The soldiers were in a vehicle driven by a civilian who was playing the role of a resident of a fictitious country, Patterson said. He wouldn’t discuss further details of the incident because it was being investigated by the State Bureau of Investigation and the Army.
“It was definitely a misunderstanding, but we’re still looking at the procedures and actions taken. We can’t lay blame on anyone right now,” said the Special Forces spokesman. The exercise, known as “Robin Sage,” is the 19-day final exam of the Special Forces Qualification Course. It tests skills in survival, tactics and dealing with people, as well as judgment, decision-making and ethics.
In previous Robin Sage sessions, law enforcement officials have helped the military by setting up road blocks. There was no immediate indication whether Butler was helping with Saturday’s exercise.
Patterson said the names of the dead and wounded soldiers wouldn’t be released until their relatives were notified.
The wounded soldier was listed in serious condition at FirstHealth Moore Regional Hospital in Pinehurst, according to the sheriff’s department.
It didn't reveal "a" problem, it revealed LOTS of problems.
BTW, this exercise has been run without incident since the 1950s. The lines of communication on this go-around failed in multiple places.
Second, This is an obvious cluster f**k. It seems that the deputy involved was one of those who did not get the word of an ongoing exercise. Who was at fault? I do not know it could be in the deputy's department or it could have been in the liason to that department. The bottom line is two soldiers are dead and the deputy has to live with the fact that he killed them. It seems pretty clear that the deputy thought he was in immenent danger of losing his own life.
In the USN there have been cases of attempted penetrations of certain vessels wher a watch stander has put a round into a person doing an exercise. A few careers were then flushed down the head.
All in all a very unfortunate situation which I hope is totally investigated and procedures implemented to prevent it recurring.
Stay well - stay safe - stay armed - Yorktown
1. The civilian car the soldiers were in was pulled over for a RTS.
2. The soldiers got into a tussle with the deputy. One going for his gun, the other reaching into a bag.
Questions not answered:
1. Did the soldiers identify themselves as such? I mean taking part in an exercise?
2. WITF were they going for the deputy's gun????? Did they think he was participating in the exercise?
3. Are the two listed "facts" above really what happened?
Until we get answers to the above we can't say.
Question is: Where did Deputy Fife get those bullets, while Sheriff Taylor was out of town?
I'm all for real-life training, but fail to see how some traffic stop role playing would have ANY kind of impact on the SF's job in Afghanistan.
That's my bet.
Since you obviously know nothing about the military or SF training,what makes you think you are qualified to pass judgement on it? Or is it just your knee-jerking again?
Two can play that game fella.
And you think this somehow makes you qualified to judge military operations and training? Maybe you think playing "war" as a kid or watching "Combat" on tv makes you a military genius?
Since you know nothing of the Constitution, why are you contributing to this forum?
To try to educate the ignorant. Are you learning anything yet? Besides,I happen to think I know more about the US Constitution than you do. Not that that is making much of a claim.
To listen to you one would suspect that the only persons in this nation that should be voting, is members of the military. After all, nobody knows better than they what should be taking place in this nation. Sorry, I don't subscribe that this theory of relativity.
I'll be the first to agree that I'm not a military expert. I never pretended to be. I'm a civlian expert. And I can tell you I don't want the military playing in my neighborhood. Got that?
The attentions of our military are supposed to focused outside our nation, not inside. And you can't convince me that our military is going to learn anything about third world cities by playing on the streets of Cincinatti, Houston or Monterey.
I think you need to check the Constitution. This is a representative government -- citizens only indirectly affect government by electing representatives. The President (thank God) is commander-in-chief of the military; the only way citizens affect the military, indirectly, is through their vote for the president.
The founding fathers, wisely, did not envision a government run directly by the populace, and although you may have faith in your ability to be the "ultimate check on everything in this nation" look around you -- you are but one of millions, many of whom don't even know how to spell "constitution."
You're just being old fasioned.. We need to turn the troops loose on the population. And if someone get's shot, hey.. We got alot anyway.
Look, we both can play the whiner, conspiracy theory, and dilusional fear game if you like. I don't think it'll produce much understanding other that that we're both idiots if we chose to agree to play by such rules.
As for mixing in civilian population in training exercises, I should think two dead soldiers would spark some understanding that things can and will go wrong. As for communities agreeing to accept these military exercises, I read an article a while back on one mayor and the process that forced his decision on him and his city.
I read this report about three years ago and don't have access to it any longer. But it wasn't flattering to those who demanded this mayor give in and allow the exercises.
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