Approaching The Green Dragon Inn
Hobbiton, in The Shire
Posted on 02/15/2002 7:01:31 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
Welcome to The Green Dragon Inn
Approaching The Green Dragon Inn
Hobbiton, in The Shire
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And wither then? I cannot say.
- JRR Tolkien
Politics also goes ever on and on.
This is a place for FReeper Tolkien fans to come and take a break from the impure reality of conservative activism and relax a little with a great story. We (the other co-conspirators and I) would like to study together the writings of Tolkien, beginning together, and discussing as we go through The Lord of the Rings together.
This is a chapter discussion, roughly one chapter per week, with the discussion mostly centered on the books, though of course the movie will be contrasted and compared, and perhaps used to illustrate another interpretation of the story.
When we are ready to move on, someone from the group (maybe me) will ping The Green Dragon List to the new Chapter, but we will continue this one thread until it becomes too cumbersome…. Let me know if you would like to be on - or off - this list. I will for now serve as the Thain of the list.
If you are joining late, jump right in, but please stick to the chapter currently being discussed.
Some have loved this story a long time, and some are newly discovering it. If you fit either category, we invite you to join in, but we would like this thread to stay mostly focused on the chapter at hand and keep moving, but at a pace everyone can keep up with… No jumping ahead, and no lagging behind! If you have other news to report or wish to discuss something Tolkien in more general terms… May we recommend the equally homey Hobbit Hole where my co-conspirators and I frequently have plenty of good talk.
One other request…. This thread will get long. In recognition that images slow down the thread for many and take up bandwidth, let’s keep the posting of images to a minimum on this thread. If there is a great illustration you wish to share, let’s try to use links instead of images wherever possible.
So lets read, listen and become inspired by the many aspects of The Lord of the Rings that touch us deeply and reconnect us to the values we aspire to. Many great discussions have already been had, and I hope that this thread will produce even more. Many FReepers have wonderful things to say about LoTR, whether the fantasy reconnects them with their faith, with their relationships with friends and family, or simply illustrates the splendor of great acts of heroism and sacrifice in the constant battle of virtue versus corruption.
Though it is a work of fiction, we believe the inspiration to be gained can only help us in our larger political goals: to guard and defend our freedom, our culture and our political ideals. May the fellowship and insight gained from this discussion help us to work through the issues that are the basis for our many shared ideals.
Besides, we Tolkien fans* need something to keep us busy during the next two years of waiting for the next two films. If you do not enjoy this story, then please simply leave us be.
*Also known as Geeky Hobbity Weirdos, obsessive fanatics, you name it, we have heard it and we see these names as compliments. In other words: don’t act like a troll, or we will distract you with our endless babble until the morning sun turns you to stone.
(so where were you guys, years ago, when I was afraid to wear my hair behind my ears? And then I had to stop wearing headbands to hide my ears because the Hillary Clinton spoiled those for everybody!)
Bump for Pointy Ears!
Sounds good to me a lot better than that I had too many pints! :)
Does that VBWC come with blue cheese dressing?
Okay the ring doesn't talk in the book, but the way Gandalf talks about it makes it a malicious tricksy piece of jewelry.
To: Romestamo;JenBOK historians, what about the passage of time in these books? The ages of the hobbits seem within reason to our ages... and the reader is given the idea that hobbits mature more slowly, at 33 Frodo is just now "coming of age".
This is clearly off-chapter but important, but how do we file Aragorn's age? He is clearly a young man by his description, although he says he is "older than he looks" he still appears to be a man in his prime. Any insight on the ages in Middle Earth?
70 posted on 2/15/02 10:19 AM Pacific by HairOfTheDog
here were the answers:
To: HairOfTheDogYup! Aragorn is of Numenorean descent, and they are a long-lived race. Elros lived several hundred years - five hundred? and his descendants are also long-lived. Aragorn has a lifespan 'thrice that of lesser men'. So, divide his 90 by three, and you get thirty. But that's no longer normal for Middle-Earth, even among those of Numenorean descent. Aragorn's long life is, I believe, a special gift to him.
71 posted on 2/15/02 10:22 AM Pacific by JenB
To: HairOfTheDog
Aragorn, like the other "lost" kings of Gondor, could live to a very late age and would age slowly. He also had the ability and right to decide the time and place of his own demise. Having descended from the line of Elros of Numenor, brother of Elron, there was the promise of long life and wisdom.
73 posted on 2/15/02 10:25 AM Pacific by Publius
To: HairOfTheDog
Elros, the brother of Elrond, chose to live as a mortal, but the elvish blood that was in him did not disappear. His decendants, the Numenoreans, had a direct and relatively pure blood line back to Elros, and as a result had life-spans of 500 years or so. (Yes, inbreeding creates twelve-toed hillbillies, but it also creates Sweden.) Aragorn, who had a very pure bloodline, recieves the longevity that it imbues. Most others who came from Numenorean stock had their bloodline diluted and so very few elvish qualities, such as long life, could be seen in them.
It seems to me that Tolkien basically doubled the age of English countrymen from his time to set the events normally seen in hobbits. Coming of age is 33 (16 to 17), 111 is an auspicious age (55 or so) and Bilbo living to around 130 before sailing off would be a ripe 65 for a early century English countryman.
76 posted on 2/15/02 10:31 AM Pacific by Anitius Severinus Boethius
He has Elvish blood in him. He is descended from Elros who was Elrond's brother.
They were Half-Elven and were given the choice of being Elven or Man.
Elrond chose to be Elven and Elros chose to be Man. Aragorn was his descendant.
When Aragorn and Arwen married, the two lines were re-united.
Well, back to work!
Perhaps if you stopped going so much we could finally get to see the DVD! :)
With the fluff movies I wait until they come out on video or DVD. They are not worth the price of a movie in my opinion.
The inside of a theater transports us to other worlds, states of mind, and different times like nothing else. I rather hope it will be at the theater for a long time yet.
Quite impossible. The Great Rings were made around the year 1500 of the Second Age. Arnor was founded around 3320 of the same Age.
It is quite possible that one or more of the Nine were Dunedain in ancestry, from those who returned to Middle Earth during the Second Age. Remember that Sauron deceived those who took the Rings. There was not necessarily anything evil about the Nine Rings at the time their Ringbearers took them up. Sauron made the One Ring after the others and thereby corrupted them.
The Elves escaped because they refused to wear or use their Rings while Sauron held the One. The Dwarves were not totally corrupted because they were unusually resistant to being dominated. Men were not as discerning as the Elves and were more susceptible than the Dwarves. The nine kings were not necessarily originally evil, which just adds to the pathos and horror of their present condition.
I went back and reread some stuff, and it turns out there's only one Nazgûl to whose origin is alluded, and that's in The Hunt for the Ring in Unfinished Tales. Khamûl, the second in command, is known as the "Black Easterling." This might only be a reference to his habitation as a Nazgûl, but I prefer the other interpretation, because it gives our first glimpse of who the nine originally were.
The Director's Cut version of the FOTR will be released on DVD this November:
A box containing 4 DVD's, 2 of them are the same of the double DVD, but you get also a DVD with the director's cut (Peter Jackson didn't decide yet between a 3h 30' version and a 4h(!) version) and another DVD with other extra stuff.
From www.caltanet.it
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