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Lord of the Rings Discussion Group (The Green Dragon Inn)

Posted on 02/15/2002 7:01:31 AM PST by HairOfTheDog

Welcome to The Green Dragon Inn


Approaching The Green Dragon Inn
Hobbiton, in The Shire

The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And wither then? I cannot say.
- JRR Tolkien

Politics also goes ever on and on.
This is a place for FReeper Tolkien fans to come and take a break from the impure reality of conservative activism and relax a little with a great story. We (the other co-conspirators and I) would like to study together the writings of Tolkien, beginning together, and discussing as we go through The Lord of the Rings together.

This is a chapter discussion, roughly one chapter per week, with the discussion mostly centered on the books, though of course the movie will be contrasted and compared, and perhaps used to illustrate another interpretation of the story.

When we are ready to move on, someone from the group (maybe me) will ping The Green Dragon List to the new Chapter, but we will continue this one thread until it becomes too cumbersome…. Let me know if you would like to be on - or off - this list. I will for now serve as the Thain of the list.

If you are joining late, jump right in, but please stick to the chapter currently being discussed.

Some have loved this story a long time, and some are newly discovering it. If you fit either category, we invite you to join in, but we would like this thread to stay mostly focused on the chapter at hand and keep moving, but at a pace everyone can keep up with… No jumping ahead, and no lagging behind! If you have other news to report or wish to discuss something Tolkien in more general terms… May we recommend the equally homey Hobbit Hole where my co-conspirators and I frequently have plenty of good talk.

One other request…. This thread will get long. In recognition that images slow down the thread for many and take up bandwidth, let’s keep the posting of images to a minimum on this thread. If there is a great illustration you wish to share, let’s try to use links instead of images wherever possible.

So lets read, listen and become inspired by the many aspects of The Lord of the Rings that touch us deeply and reconnect us to the values we aspire to. Many great discussions have already been had, and I hope that this thread will produce even more. Many FReepers have wonderful things to say about LoTR, whether the fantasy reconnects them with their faith, with their relationships with friends and family, or simply illustrates the splendor of great acts of heroism and sacrifice in the constant battle of virtue versus corruption.

Though it is a work of fiction, we believe the inspiration to be gained can only help us in our larger political goals: to guard and defend our freedom, our culture and our political ideals. May the fellowship and insight gained from this discussion help us to work through the issues that are the basis for our many shared ideals.

Besides, we Tolkien fans* need something to keep us busy during the next two years of waiting for the next two films. If you do not enjoy this story, then please simply leave us be.

*Also known as Geeky Hobbity Weirdos, obsessive fanatics, you name it, we have heard it and we see these names as compliments. In other words: don’t act like a troll, or we will distract you with our endless babble until the morning sun turns you to stone.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: tolkien
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To: HairOfTheDog
I'm late to this topic, but I'm very offended by the omission of Tom Bombadil.....
241 posted on 02/16/2002 4:35:43 PM PST by The Drowning Witch
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To: Carolina
It's the FOTR Oscar commercial

COOL! I hope it wins LOTS at the Oscars! My 14 yo daughter and I just got back from seeing it for the 3rd time. A little blurb on the screen mentions the car which can be seen in the distance when Sam and Frodo are walking by the scarecrow(ops sorry, moving ahead). I saw it! You have to be looking very closely because it only shows up as a glint of sunlight off the roof in the distance.

The movie was even BETTER the 3rd time around!

242 posted on 02/16/2002 4:46:29 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: Penny1
The scene where Frodo and Gandalf talk about destroying the ring, and seeing how difficult it would be, is quite sobering.

Did you notice how Frodo couldn't even bring himself to throw the ring in his own little hearth fire?

243 posted on 02/16/2002 4:52:09 PM PST by Overtaxed
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To: The Drowning Witch
No actually you are not late... we haven't gotten there yet, we are only at Chapter 2 - so you still have time to talk Bombadil later on!
244 posted on 02/16/2002 4:54:35 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: Romestamo
Anor, apart from being an older name for Minas Tirith, also means the sun

This is off the subject, but I have to ask something. Sir SuziQ and I had talked about building a new house and giving it a name. Since we wanted it to be on a hill and to incorporate passive solar, we thought Sunny Hill would be nice. When we went to see the movie, we began to wonder what that would translate into in 'Elvish'. I looked on a website and found that 'Amon' was hill and 'Nar' was sun, but that was Quenyan. Where did you find 'Anor'? "Amon Anor" does sound nice!

Sheesh! Are we Tolkien geeks or what!!?

245 posted on 02/16/2002 4:56:15 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: Overtaxed
His early reluctance to risk harm to the ring kind-of makes me wonder how "they" thought he would be able to throw it into the fire after bearing it so close to him and so far... more unexplained foreshadowing-type statements about Gollum to come, I think.
246 posted on 02/16/2002 5:00:22 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: Overtaxed
Did you notice how Frodo couldn't even bring himself to throw the ring in his own little hearth fire?

Yes indeed...(SPOILER AHEAD)....

Looking back on it, I can see that moment is of course foreshadowing what happens on Mt. Doom, but even with such a strong hint at the beginning I didn't see Frodo's failure coming the first time I read the story.

247 posted on 02/16/2002 5:02:37 PM PST by Penny1
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To: SuziQ
Amon Anor works. Amon Nórui does too, but I think the first one rolls off the tongue more nicely.
248 posted on 02/16/2002 5:04:50 PM PST by Romestamo
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To: HairOfTheDog
His early reluctance to risk harm to the ring kind-of makes me wonder how "they" thought he would be able to throw it into the fire after bearing it so close to him and so far...

However Gandalf was the only witness to this.

"I will help you bear this burden, as long as it is yours to bear."

Who's jumping ahead now? Hmmmm? Off to Took's Corner with you! Have a chicken wing.

249 posted on 02/16/2002 5:12:02 PM PST by Overtaxed
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To: HairOfTheDog
It does make you wonder, doesn't it?

I find myself wondering if perhaps Gandalf expected or hoped that Frodo would eventually mature and grow in his ability to resist the pull of the ring. In many ways, he does--for example, (MORE SPOILERS) he manages to keep from wearing the ring when the Nazgûl come close to him just outside Minus Morgul.

Also, I wonder if Gandalf never believed that Frodo and Sam would be made to go to Mordor all alone without himself or others of the Fellowship to help him.

I suppose it's all wrapped up in his statement, "Even the very wise cannot see all ends...."

I read a great review of the movie that summed up the idea of the story that the entire task seems entirely hopeless...and grows more and more hopeless as the story progresses. Until at the last, success of ANY kind seems utterly impossible....and yet...success is achieved. It's all about doing the right thing and having faith that it will somehow be enough no matter how impossible it looks.

-penny

250 posted on 02/16/2002 5:16:36 PM PST by Penny1
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To: Overtaxed
You think I am jumping ahead with my thinly veiled hints? - Wait till you hear Penny... hehehehe
251 posted on 02/16/2002 5:18:42 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: SuziQ
Sir SuziQ and I had talked about building a new house and giving it a name.

Heh, heh, heh. And when you get the house blessed will your blessing be: "O Elbereth! O Gilthoniel!"

**Ducking**

252 posted on 02/16/2002 5:21:38 PM PST by Carolina
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To: HairOfTheDog
Yes, but I'm ALREADY happily ensconced in "Took Corner"... ;)
253 posted on 02/16/2002 5:23:37 PM PST by Penny1
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To: HairOfTheDog
I think it is interesting that Merry, rather than Sam, is given the first emphasis in Frodo's circle of friends...

Frodo doesn't hang out with Sam the way he does with Merry and Pippin. I think that although Frodo is fond of Sam, they are not all that close. After all, you don't hear the Gamgee's being mentioned at all during the Party (they weren't part of the Gross) so I believe they "running" things. Frodo knows how Sam likes hearing about Elves, but he never takes him along on his wanderings to meet any of them.

At the end of Chapter 2 it seems that Frodo hasn't realized how devoted Sam is:

"He won't hurt you," said Frodo, hardly able to keep from laughing, although he was himself startled and rather puzzled.

254 posted on 02/16/2002 5:36:13 PM PST by Overtaxed
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To: Penny1
I find myself wondering if perhaps Gandalf expected or hoped that Frodo would eventually mature and grow in his ability to resist the pull of the ring.

I thought that at this point, Gandalf expected to be with Frodo and would help him give up the ring the same way he helped Bilbo.

255 posted on 02/16/2002 5:40:00 PM PST by Overtaxed
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To: Penny1
Yes, but I'm ALREADY happily ensconced in "Took Corner"... ;)

It is getting a bit crowded over here. Maybe we should go mingle with the newbies. :)

256 posted on 02/16/2002 5:42:25 PM PST by Overtaxed
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To: Overtaxed
And thanks for the chicken wing... I am going out for some vittles and pints in a bit tonight... as soon as that Sackville brother of mine shows up. I will not be out late though, so I hope there will still be time for more talk this evening! - I have just been reading about Gandalf and Aragorn searching to find Gollum to help piece together the mystery of this ring...
"Yes, to Mordor,"... "in that land he would learn much, too much for his comfort. And sooner or later as he lurked and pried on the borders he would be caught, and taken - for examination. That was the way of it, I fear. When he was found he had already been there long, and was on his way back. On some errand of mischief. But that does not matter much now. His worst mischief was done."

Gandalf goes on, and at this point in the story we do not know how late it is... This was such a scary part of the film, when we knew the black riders were already near.

257 posted on 02/16/2002 5:43:09 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
"Those who have problems later on telling Merry and Pippin apart (Why, they are as different as a Took and a Brandybuck!), have not read the first chapter carefully. "

How about favoring with a little comparison and contrast of Merry and Pippin? I would enjoy that.

258 posted on 02/16/2002 5:47:19 PM PST by cookcounty
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To: cookcounty
Just wait until after Chapter V, You will see the difference in the "Conspiracy Unmasked" I don't think we know enough about them yet.

We are learning to understand the relationship between Frodo and Sam, though... where Frodo is definately the master and Samwise is devoted, but part of the "poorer hobbits on Bagshot row"

259 posted on 02/16/2002 5:55:36 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
I'm sure I'll be here! I'm working on a project that has me enslaved to my Mac this weekend! (at least as much as my daughter will let me--LOL)

Have fun!

260 posted on 02/16/2002 6:01:33 PM PST by BornOnTheFourth
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