Posted on 02/13/2002 5:30:35 PM PST by CCWoody
The Goal of God in Redemptive History
A brief and selected overview
Psalm 115:1-3 Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto Thy name give glory, for Thy mercy and for Thy truth's sake. Why should the heathen say, "Where now is their God?" But our God is in the heavens; He hath done whatsoever He hath pleased.
God's ultimate purpose for all that He does is to preserve and display His glory. It is uppermost in His affections and he prizes and delights in His glory above all things. Anybody who can grasp and understand how precious this is to God will have unlocked the door to the fullness of joy and pleasures forever more (Psalm 16:11) for they will have understood exactly what this means:
The Chief end of man is to Glorify God
BY
Enjoying Him forever!
The term "glory of God" generally refers to the visible splendor or moral beauty of God. With the Psalmist, I too have a strong desire to behold the beauty of the LORD (Psalm 27:4), to simply feel awe and wonder in all that He is. It is for this purpose that God has created man; for His Glory (Revelation 4:11).
Genesis 1:26-27 And God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
Man, who is created last of all God's work is the only creature to be in His image. He is given dominion and commanded to subdue and fill the earth (1:28). Numbers 14:21 expresses God's purpose in all of this when the Lord says: all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD. Man has been given the exhalted status to bear the image of the Creator so that he will reflect the glory of his Maker.
Therefore, it should come as no surprise that when they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man (Romans 1:23) that God has a perfect right to be furious.
The vast majority of professing Christians simply do not understand the full nature of verses like Romans 1:18: For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness. Yet, the Psalmist David captures the essence of exactly why God is furious at man. Not only have we filled the earth with the corruptible image of man instead of the incorruptible image of God, but we have directly profaned God with our sin:
Psalm 51:3-4 For I acknowledge my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me. Against Thee, Thee only, have I sinned and done this evil in Thy sight, that Thou mightest be justified when Thou speakest, and be clear when Thou judgest.
Behold the words of the Lord in Psalm 78:30-31 after Israel spoke against God (v. 19) saying "Can God prepare a table in the wilderness?":
But they were not estranged from their lust; but while their meat was yet in their mouths, the wrath of God came upon them and slew the fattest of them, and smote down the chosen men of Israel.
They simply do not understand that this is the Lord:
Isaiah 63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone, And from the peoples no one was with Me. For I have trodden them in My anger, And trampled them in My fury; Their blood is sprinkled upon My garments, And I have stained all My robes.
The vast majority of professing Christians simply cannot understand that this is simply not some isolated event in scripture. God is holy and we are not. We constantly profane His name and tempt Him. And it is precisely this lack of understanding which has given them over to the error that God has purposed a desire to save everyone. He has not. The evidence is clear enough for those willing to read and understand the scriptures.
Egypt
God saves, not for our sake, but for the sake of His holy name; for His glory. We are the beneficiary of His mercy, not the primary purpose. When one understands this, one understands his proper place. Man is not the center of salvation. The display of God's glory is:
Romans 9:17 For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, "Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show My power in thee, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth."
Ezekel 20:8-9 But they rebelled against Me and would not hearken unto Me. They did not every man cast away the abominations of their eyes, neither did they forsake the idols of Egypt. "`Then I said, "I will pour out My fury upon them, to accomplish My anger against them in the midst of the land of Egypt." But I wrought for My name's sake, that it should not be polluted before the heathen among whom they were, in whose sight I made Myself known unto them in bringing them forth out of the land of Egypt.
Exodus 14:4,18 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and he will pursue them. But I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD." So the Israelites did this…. The Egyptians will know that I am the LORD when I gain glory through Pharaoh, his chariots and his horsemen."
It is there in black and white for all to see. God acts for His glory and for His name's sake. The prototype of salvation in the Passover Lamb is for His glory. Scripture specifically affirms that together with salvation for His chosen people, God destroyed the firstborn of all Egypt. Salvation and damnation; both for the glory of God. Isaiah 43:3 says the following: For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I gave Egypt for your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in your place.
Cross Work
Yet, the God of the New Testament is the same God of the Old Testament (Malachi 3:6): For I am the Lord, I do not change. And again (Hebrews 13:8) Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Hebrews 1:1-4 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
When the Father looks on the Son, He beholds the brightness of His own glory and the express image of His own person. When God contemplates His own glory in the image of the Son it brings Him great delight (Isaiah 42:1): Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! The very method with which God has chosen to effect salvation is designed to reveal His own Glory in the Person of the Son.
John 17:4-5 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
John 12:28-28 "Now is My soul troubled, and what shall I say? `Father, save Me from this hour'? But for this cause came I unto this hour. Father, glorify Thy name." Then there came a voice from Heaven, saying, "I HAVE BOTH GLORIFIED IT, AND WILL GLORIFY IT AGAIN."
The purpose of Jesus' death was to glorify the Father. To be willing as the Son of God to suffer the loss of so much glory himself in order to repair the injury done to God's glory by our sin showed how infinitely valuable the glory of God is. To be sure, the death of Christ also shows God's love for us. But we are not at the center.
God put forward his Son on the cross "to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins" (Romans 3:25). In other words, by forgiving sin in the Old Testament and by tolerating many sinners, God had given the impression that his honor and glory were not of infinite worth. Now to vindicate the honor of His name and the worth of His glory, He required the death of His own Son. Thus Christ suffered and died for the glory of the Father. This demonstrates the righteousness of God, because God's righteousness is His unswerving allegiance to uphold the value of His glory. - John Piper from Desiring God (pg. 264-5)
Christ does not exist to make much about man; to crawl up to him and beg that he should accept Him as Savior lest He invade the citadel of man's free will. Quite the contrary, we exist to make much of and enjoy Him. It is demanded of us. And He has made it so easy. If we would only cast our burdens on Him we would be sustained by Him (Psalm 55:22). If we would only call upon Him we would be delivered and we would Glorify Him (Psalm 50:15). He takes great delight in the display of His grace upon those who delight in Him:
Isaiah 46:1-5 Bel boweth down, Nebo stoopeth; their idols were upon the beasts and upon the cattle. Your carriages were heavy laden; they are a burden to the weary beast. They stoop, they bow down together; they could not deliver the burden, but themselves are gone into captivity.
"Hearken unto Me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, who are borne by Me from the belly, who are carried from the womb: And even to your old age I am He, and even to hoary hairs will I carry you. I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you.
"To whom will ye liken Me and make Me equal, and compare Me, that we may be like?
Mark 10:45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
Luke 22:27 For who is greater, he who sits at the table, or he who serves? Is it not he who sits at the table? Yet I am among you as the One who serves.
Our Great God is not like pagan idols. They are a burden. Our God will bear us up and carry us if our delight is in Him. For how can we worship him with our hands. It is our God who gives life and breath and all things. (Acts 17:25) For those of us who eagerly wait for Him, he prepares a table for us in the presence of our enemies (Psalm 23:5). We delight ourselves in Him; He gets Glory.
The Coming Day of our Lord
For now, we walk by faith and not by sight (2 Cor 5:7), but the day is coming when our faith will be swallowed up because we shall see him come in all His glory. For now we see Christ in our hearts (Ephesians 1:18) and it is there that we have the knowledge of the glory of God (2Cor 4:6) but our blessed hope is in the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13). Like the lightning, so will be the Son of Man in His day (Luke 17:24). He shall come in His glory and all the holy angels with Him (Matthew 25:31). Not just some, but ALL of His angels and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands (Revelation 5:11). Heaven will empty in the Glorious day of the Lord.
His coming is the revelation of His glory (1 Peter 4:13) and every saint will be a partaker of the glory to be revealed (1 Peter 5:1). The joy of the saints will be in the revealed Glory of Christ (1 Peter 4:13). He shall come on that Day to be glorified in His saints and to be admired in all those who believe (1 Thess 1:10). The Glory of the Lord will be salvation (Hebrews 9:28). He shall change our vile bodies into the likeness of the body of His glory (Philippians 3:21). In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, we will be changed (1 Cor 15:52).
And it will also be the fire of judgement (2 Thess 1:7). Every unbeliever will pay the penalty of eternal destruction away from the Lord and His glory (2 Thess 1:9). The kings of the earth and the slaves will hide themselves in caves and cry out to the rocks "fall on us and hide us from the wrath of the Lamb" (Revelation 6:15-16).
But to those of us who eagerly away for His return:
Luke 12:37 Blessed are those servants whom the lord, when he cometh, shall find watching. Verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
He will not give up the glory of being the grace giver. Our God works for those who wait for Him (Isaiah 30:18, 64:4).
Come magnify the LORD with me,
And let us exalt His name together.
Let us bow down before Him in awe and wonder
to the glory of His name.
When these two thoughts pervade your being, then you will begin to share the gospel with a new urgency:
I want to have a growing desire to be a Soul Hunter.
- Those who never ever hear the Gospel will be lost forever.
- Those who are lost will burn forever in torment, where their worm does not die. They will look forever upon the God they rejected.
Absolutely the opposite was meant. God DOES take pleasure in His glory.
Glad you enjoyed it:
Psalm 27:4 One thing I have desired of the LORD, That will I seek: That I may dwell in the house of the LORD All the days of my life, To behold the beauty of the LORD, And to inquire in His temple.Let the response of the heart simply be stunned silence at the Radiance of the Lord. Be still and know that I am God! Worship is a way of reflecting back the Glory of God. It is not an act of willpower in outward acts. When one does not have feelings, then the worship is dead.
When one in a hedonistic passion longs for God, then glorifying God in worship cannot be contained.
I think we delight to praise what we enjoy because the praise not merely expresses but completes the enjoyment; it is its appointed consummation. It is not out of compliment that lovers keep on telling one another how beautiful they are; the delight is incomplete until it is expressed. - C.S. LewisAll the works of God culminate in the praises of His redeemed people. The climax of His happiness is the delight He takes in the echoes of His excellence in the praises of the saints. This praise is the consummation of our own joy in God. Therefore God's pursuit of praise from us and our pursuit of pleasure in Him are the same pursuit. This is the great gospel! This is the foundation of Christian Hedonism. - John Piper
The call is specific FTD..in this case it was specific to Lazarus . At the end of time it will be a general call, a call to reward and punishment. One does not exclude the other. As you pointed out the graves were opened when Jesus died..but not all the graves of all men. Just those that were called forth.
Isaiah 49:1
Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
another reason these analogies all break down when viewed as an exact parallel to the salvation of a sinner is the matter of responsibility...if you make an exact parallel between a physically dead man and a spiritually dead dead man and say that neither one can believe on Jesus Christ, then you likewise have to say that neither one cannot not believe, If a dead man can't accept Christ because he is dead then he can't reject him either. A dead man cannot believe on Jesus Christ, but a dead sinner can(The Other Side of Calvinism, Vance,p.220-223)
This is foolish double talk Ftd...Man is dead because Adam rejected God..the spiritual death is a "gift" from Adam to us. We inherited physical death (a sure thing) and spiritual death (also a sure thing).
The author makes the point well. A spiritually dead man does not even consider believing on Christ. It is not a matter of acceptance ot rejection is is a matter of desires. Unregenerate man does not seek after God, so rejection is not an issue.
Ftd you can not desire what you do not understand, or what you can not see
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
But why was it specific? It was specific because Jesus loved Larazus and Larazus loved Him (Amos 3:3). Moreover, the sister had faith that God would do that for Jesus (Jn.11:40)
At the end of time it will be a general call, a call to reward and punishment. One does not exclude the other. As you pointed out the graves were opened when Jesus died..but not all the graves of all men. Just those that were called forth.
Then that was the case (for those were the first fruits), but eventually all will be called forth to stand before the Judgement seats. So, how is the call earlier any different then the later one, except that it relates to different times and different groups of people?
Isaiah 49:1 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
OK, Israel was called by God for a special purpose, no disagreement there. That is far different than saying one is 'called' to salvation or damnation! Moreover, Rom.8:29 makes it very clear that those 'called' are first 'foreknown'
another reason these analogies all break down when viewed as an exact parallel to the salvation of a sinner is the matter of responsibility...if you make an exact parallel between a physically dead man and a spiritually dead dead man and say that neither one can believe on Jesus Christ, then you likewise have to say that neither one cannot not believe, If a dead man can't accept Christ because he is dead then he can't reject him either. A dead man cannot believe on Jesus Christ, but a dead sinner can(The Other Side of Calvinism, Vance,p.220-223) This is foolish double talk Ftd...Man is dead because Adam rejected God..the spiritual death is a "gift" from Adam to us. We inherited physical death (a sure thing) and spiritual death (also a sure thing).
It is foolish? If you are using a analogy about a dead man who is called back to physical life to represent spiritual life, how is foolish to say that it cuts both ways? Why did not the call to physical life stick, why did Lazarus die again?
Regarding the death we receive from Adam, Christ's gift supersedes it,
There as by the offence of one judgement came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life(Rom.5:18)Now, someone could easily take that as meaning that Adam;s sin has been nullified! The fact is that one must still take the free gift in order to receive the benefits of salvation (Rom.6:23,Jn.16:9)
The author makes the point well. A spiritually dead man does not even consider believing on Christ. It is not a matter of acceptance ot rejection is is a matter of desires. Unregenerate man does not seek after God, so rejection is not an issue.
Even if the unregenerate man doesn't seek God, it doesn't mean that God doesn't seek him (Jn.12:32, 1Tim.2:4) and give him the light to understand the Gospel (2Cor.4:6)
Ftd you can not desire what you do not understand, or what you can not see
God has put in man the ability to see that there is a God (Rom.1:20), that is why he is responsible for not doing so and rejecting the light given to him! Thus, man should seek Him and can, even if blindly (Acts.17:27).
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
That is correct, one must be born again to see the kingdom of God, not see the reality of his need for a saviour,
Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas. and brought them out and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?(Acts.16:29-30)
I do not believe 'soul' life begins until after birth, when God gives it at birth with the breath of life (Gen.2:7) (there is ofcourse,before that physical life). When an infant dies, he goes to heaven since he is under the blood (Rom.5:18) and hasn't said no to the free gift (Jn.16:9). See 2Sam.12:23.
It is God's desire to save man (1Tim.2:4) it is man who rejects God, not God that rejects man (Jn.3:16)
Hear,O earth, behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law but rejected it (Jer.6:19)
When he can articulate our Biblical position concerning Total Depravity (or any doctrine) I might have something to say.
How is that 'heckling'? You put up a article, I make a statement that no Arminian would disagree with a portion of it. Now, if I am wrong show me from the article! Don't tell me you were thinking 'such and such', show me from what you wrote that it was Calvinism!
If you can't, stop your whining.
If you only want to 'ooh and ahh' with other Calvinists, just make a Calvinist Only Thread, we nonCalvinists will honor it.
Lest we forget what we are talking about, here is the section I marked. Now, show me from that part, where is Total Depravity?
What is all those If's when Calvinists believe God does it all!
Calvinists love sounding like Arminians
It is God's desire to save man (1Tim.2:4) it is man who rejects God, not God that rejects man (Jn.3:16)
Hear,O earth, behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law but rejected it (Jer.6:19)
85 posted on 2/16/02 1:03 PM Pacific by fortheDeclaration
Hey, newblood, do you believe like FTD:
His theology completely ignores the word of God, which says that babies are born fully under the curse.
FTD, you really need to come to your knees, repent, and seek the Lord.
Sister, you are right! Vance doesn't even define our position accurately to begin with and I wonder if Vance even understood that he is making our point for us. Of course a dead man cannot believe on Jesus Christ. Of course a dead sinner can believe on Christ as well. LOL!
FTD, when you are able to articulare our position on Total Depravity [and Irresistible Grace], you will understand how this doesn't do anything to overthrow our position.
Why did Jesus not come before he died ? He waited because He had a lesson top teach.Larazus was in the tomb and he stunk..he was very dead..there would be no doubt that this was not a natural occurance..he was called out all bound up just as we were ( While we were yet sinners..)
Then that was the case (for those were the first fruits), but eventually all will be called forth to stand before the Judgment seats. So, how is the call earlier any different then the later one, except that it relates to different times and different groups of people?
An neither of these calls have anything to do with the raising of Larazus, you are the one making the comparison not me. The final call will simply confirm the individual call.
Isaiah 49:1 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
OK, Israel was called by God for a special purpose, no disagreement there. That is far different than saying one is 'called' to salvation or damnation! Moreover, Rom.8:29 makes it very clear that those 'called' are first 'foreknown'
Of course God foreknows what He will accomplish
Ephesians 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
another reason these analogies all break down when viewed as an exact parallel to the salvation of a sinner is the matter of responsibility ...if you make an exact parallel between a physically dead man and a spiritually dead dead man and say that neither one can believe on Jesus Christ, then you likewise have to say that neither one cannot not believe, If a dead man can't accept Christ because he is dead then he can't reject him either. A dead man cannot believe on Jesus Christ, but a dead sinner can(The Other Side of Calvinism, Vance,p.220-223)
Scripture says that while we were yet dead in our sins and trespasses .....ahhhh but the dead can not hear or see , on that we agree..so some thing had to come first. Man had to be made alive so he could hear " Come Out" . Only one that lives can hear the order to come out..Larazus was made alive before Jesus called him..
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
We have to be brought to life before we can hear Him too.
Regarding the death we receive from Adam, Christ's gift supersedes it,
But not for all ftd ..unless you have become a Universalist.
Even if the unregenerate man doesn't seek God, it doesn't mean that God doesn't seek him (Jn.12:32, 1Tim.2:4) and give him the light to understand the Gospel (2Cor.4:6)
God does seek after man..but dead men do not hear. They go on doing what they want,living their lives.
God has put in man the ability to see that there is a God (Rom.1:20), that is why he is responsible for not doing so and rejecting the light given to him! Thus, man should seek Him and can, even if blindly (Acts.17:27).
Adam and Eve had before them all of God's creation..they saw it and knew it yet when He called to them they hid. Now spiritually dead they were only concerned with their nakedness. They did exactly what they wanted to do..
Now you explain to me why some men respond to the general call you say they have and other not? Are those that respond smarter? Holier? what is the difference?
Woody, I cannot see you lying about a Greek text. (Mistaken maybe since all Greek texts are ONLY properly translated with an Arminian perspective in mind...lol)
You did not explain it by what you wrote but what you had in mind (Jn.5:24) when you wrote.
Can I define Total Depravity? Sure can. I am waiting for you to define it since you are the one defending it!
So how about all those If's? Sounds awfully 'Armininan' to me. As I said Calvinist have to sound Arminian when it comes to man's volition to sound Biblical.
So far, so good!
Then that was the case (for those were the first fruits), but eventually all will be called forth to stand before the Judgment seats. So, how is the call earlier any different then the later one, except that it relates to different times and different groups of people? An neither of these calls have anything to do with the raising of Larazus, you are the one making the comparison not me. The final call will simply confirm the individual call.
And what is that individual call based on? No one is called until, predestinated, and no one predestinated until foreknown
Isaiah 49:1 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. OK, Israel was called by God for a special purpose, no disagreement there. That is far different than saying one is 'called' to salvation or damnation! Moreover, Rom.8:29 makes it very clear that those 'called' are first 'foreknown' Of course God foreknows what He will accomplish Ephesians 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Thats right, God knew who would accept Christ and chose us in Him. See what predestination refers to? It refers to the adoption as children. This ties into John 1:12 where it states,
But as many as received him to them gave he powers to become the sons of God even to them that believe on his name
another reason these analogies all break down when viewed as an exact parallel to the salvation of a sinner is the matter of responsibility ...if you make an exact parallel between a physically dead man and a spiritually dead dead man and say that neither one can believe on Jesus Christ, then you likewise have to say that neither one cannot not believe, If a dead man can't accept Christ because he is dead then he can't reject him either. A dead man cannot believe on Jesus Christ, but a dead sinner can(The Other Side of Calvinism, Vance,p.220-223) Scripture says that while we were yet dead in our sins and trespasses .....ahhhh but the dead can not hear or see , on that we agree
The dead can't hear or see? You mean the corpse can't. You are not preaching 'soul sleep' are you? The real person is very much alive after death and is in either heaven or hell-right?
..so some thing had to come first. Man had to be made alive so he could hear " Come Out" . Only one that lives can hear the order to come out..Larazus was made alive before Jesus called him..
Larazus soul was always alive, it was just his physical body that was dead! When anyone 'dies' they do not cease to think, or feel as depicted in Lk.16!(As I said, if you want to make physical death the same as spiritual death, then you have Larazus dying again, so can one die again spiritually?) The idea that spiritual death means that we cannot seek God (Acts.17:27) or understand it when presented (2Cor.4:6) is nonsense.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." We have to be brought to life before we can hear Him too.
We have to have the darkness removed from our souls so we can understand the Gospel (2Cor.4:6) so we as living persons can them make a decision!
Regarding the death we receive from Adam, Christ's gift supersedes it, But not for all ftd ..unless you have become a Universalist.
Thats right, it depends on what one does with ones faith (Jn.16:9) It was you who was making an issue out of Adam's sin. It places us in position to be saved by the 2nd Adam, since He tasted death for all men (Heb.2:9)
Even if the unregenerate man doesn't seek God, it doesn't mean that God doesn't seek him (Jn.12:32, 1Tim.2:4) and give him the light to understand the Gospel (2Cor.4:6) God does seek after man..but dead men do not hear. They go on doing what they want,living their lives.
So, you keep asserting without any Biblical facts. The jailor in Acts.16 acted and sought God. Cornilus (who is described as a devout man (Acts.10:2) sought God in and he wasn't saved!(Acts.11:14)
God has put in man the ability to see that there is a God (Rom.1:20), that is why he is responsible for not doing so and rejecting the light given to him! Thus, man should seek Him and can, even if blindly (Acts.17:27). Adam and Eve had before them all of God's creation..they saw it and knew it yet when He called to them they hid. Now spiritually dead they were only concerned with their nakedness. They did exactly what they wanted to do..
First, you have to explain how could Adam reject God in the first place since Adam was not under Original sin!!! I mean your whole case is simply, 'surely no one would reject God', yet, you have Adam, a perfect man doing so? Now, how about that! In fact, Lucifer, a Cherub who guarded God's throne did so! And you stand around asking how can anyone do it?
It is called free will! In fact the word (unlike 'Sovereignity') is actually in the Bible (Ezra.7:13)
Moreover, if Adam was as spritually dead as the Calvinists maintain he could not have even heard God until he had been regenerated first!
Now you explain to me why some men respond to the general call you say they have and other not? Are those that respond smarter? Holier? what is the difference?
Man has the ability to delude himself
He hath said in his heart, God hath forgotten:he hideth his face, he will never see it.(Ps.10:11)Which say to the seers, See not, and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits(Isa.30:10)Also, let me ask you this question. You have the Holy Spirit in you. Do you sin? Why? How can you reject God? If a believer can say no to God after salvation, what makes you think that someone cannot say no before salvation?
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world areclearly seen(by whom? the spiritually dead? How can that be?) being understood (understood? by the spiritually dead? come on, that cannot be!) by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead (what? how can a spiritually dead man discern God's power and Godhead? ( Calvin says it isn't so!!!) so that they are without excuse (do you mean that the spiritually dead are responsible for understanding God? They are dead, how can that be? It can't be, because no one would ever reject God! ohhhh,perish the thought!'The blind leading the blind'
What is there for me to defend? You are not arguing against my beliefs. You are arguing against what you think are my beliefs. In fact, all you are doing is slandering me personally, which is telling of the bankrupt nature of your position. I doubt that you can accurately express my belief about Total Depravity.
What I am going to presume is to have you show me where in that article is a clear case made for Calvinism, particulary the part that I highlighted! Not what you thought but what was said - fortheDeclarationProof from your own words that you don't even have a clue what a Calvinist believes. I have posted our beliefs. I know exactly what I wrote. I have nothing to defend as you can't even declare my position or even respect me enough to allow that it is my postion. And you can't even begin to refute what you can't even state.
I doubt you find a Calvinist who would argue that election does not include all children.
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