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To: Heartlander
The problem I have with the theory of evolution is, well, the theory breaks two rules of thermodynamics. You can't get something from nothing (The total energy in the universe is constant) and you cannot create order from chaos...chaos breeds chaos (The total entropy in the universe is always increasing). end of the debate.
223 posted on 02/05/2002 5:33:49 PM PST by sonicEmpire
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To: sonicEmpire
end of the debate.

Are you in a hurry? I and others had a long go-round with "Ol'Sparky" on that very subject. Here were two of my last posts.

Click me. (Post 596)

Click me. (Post 599)

227 posted on 02/05/2002 5:44:13 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: sonicEmpire
I agree. The beginning happened; and in the constraints of time, space, and matter that we all live in – it had to have a beginning. Absolute infinity is no beginning and no end.

That is to say, If I had an absolute infinite amount of computers; infinite Dell and infinite HP. Then I was to sell the Dells. I would still have the same amount of computers. How is this possible? Let’s say that I now sold all the purple HPs that made up part of my collection. I still have an infinite amount of HPs. How is this possible?

230 posted on 02/05/2002 5:51:09 PM PST by Heartlander
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To: sonicEmpire
(The total energy in the universe is constant)

...and is zero (but why do you think energy is conserved?)...

and you cannot create order from chaos...

...which is not a law of thermodynamics. In fact, your assertion is trivially disproven by watching a (highly ordered) salt crystal grow from a highly disordered salt solution.

232 posted on 02/05/2002 6:01:54 PM PST by Physicist
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To: sonicEmpire
The problem I have with the theory of evolution is, well, the theory breaks two rules of thermodynamics. You can't get something from nothing (The total energy in the universe is constant) and you cannot create order from chaos...chaos breeds chaos (The total entropy in the universe is always increasing). end of the debate.

You need to go back to school, because you don't understand thermodynamics. While it is true you can't get something from nothing (though there are very technical caveats that go along with that statement), I don't see how that is relevant to evolution. Evolution doesn't violate the TANSTAAFL rule (which really says that you can never even break even).

As for the tendency towards entropy in all closed systems, biology does not violate this either. Any system with an external enthalpy gradient can locally reduce entropy, so sayeth Gibb's Free Energy equation. If you knew Gibb's equation this would be obvious, and since Gibb's equation is one of the central equations of thermodynamics, one has to wonder how much you actually do know about thermodynamics.

Go study Gibb's equation, come back, and explain to me EXACTLY how biological systems violate the fundamental equations of thermodynamics. The equation only has four variables and is accessible to anyone with first year algebra; the answer to your questions will be obvious. HINT: If what you believe was true diamonds could not exist, as they too are formed from graphite by reducing entropy.

235 posted on 02/05/2002 6:02:55 PM PST by tortoise
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To: sonicEmpire
The problem I have with the theory of evolution is, well, the theory breaks two rules of thermodynamics. You can't get something from nothing (The total energy in the universe is constant) and you cannot create order from chaos...chaos breeds chaos (The total entropy in the universe is always increasing). end of the debate.

Evolutionary theory does not suggest that one gets energy from nothing. Perhaps you might take a thermodynamics course.

The second law does not address chaos nor order directly. It involves (in one form) heat flow. In no case does evolutionary theory suggest that heat flows from cold to hot (without a correspondlingly larger flow of heat from hot to cold.) Another formulation is that there are pressure-volume-temperature states that are close to each other but cannot be reached by reversible processes. Perhaps you might take a thermodynamics course.

254 posted on 02/05/2002 8:02:51 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic
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