O'Reilly: Bush Justice Dept. Hamstringing Pardongate Probers

Well, so far, Ashcroft has written to the NRA reafirming the right of an individual to own a gun, and made a stink about statues of females with breasts. The NRA already knew the first part, and the AG's prudishness is now a matter of record. Is there anything else going on in that Justice Department?

I'm not saying this story is untrue--

Wise decision, Bush claimed executive privilege on most if
if not all the relevent documentation that would let Justice
proceed. Of course Ashcroft refused to hand over papers too.
A major dissapointment to me, for sure. Judicial Watch is the
one responsible for getting at the missing eMails through
discovery in one of their suits, if in fact they get at them.

Bush's EO also allows former presidents to claim privilege,
on most items.

You say:

What crime was Loral found guilty of?

Maybe it's you that hasn't been paying attention.

Luis, Looie.... From WSJ January 9:

WASHINGTON -- Loral Space & Communications Ltd.'s Space Systems/Loral Inc. unit Wednesday agreed to pay a civil penalty of $14 million over seven years to settle charges by the U.S. State Department that the company passed sensitive missile technology to China.

Here's a link for anyone not paying attention

From the same article:

"The parties signed the agreement to settle and dispose of all civil charges, penalties and sanctions associated with alleged violations by Space Systems/Loral of the Arms Export Control Act."

The only thing that Loral was guilty of was breaking an export regulation by not getting proper clearance.

Loral admitted to mistakenly passing on information to China, There was no trial, therefore, no one was found guilty of a crime.

"Don't think it needs to meet the "beyond reasonable doubt" test."

Are you willing to bring down the American system of Justice to try and find ONE man guilty?

If you do, what did you accomplish?

Bill Clinton should have been removed from office, the Senate gave him a pass.

People in FR throw the "treason" term around so lightly, I don't think they understand how incredibly difficult the Founders made it to charge people with that crime.

"Listen folks, like it or not, Bush told us that he would put this behind us, and now he's doing his best to do just that. "Uniter not a Divider" remember that????

"The dude actually does what he says, and that wasn't just a stupid slogan. I'm guessing that he really does think that healing the nation is more important than further dividing it to prosecute these people. We had our one best shot and the Senate punted. (They were probably too dirty to live through the fight.)"

Hey dude, let me tell you something. When he stood up there before God and the American people, he took an oath, to uphold the Constitution(i.e. the LAW). So, an oath means nothing to him? It's one thing to lie to the American people, quite another to lie to God. When the rule of law falls, so does a nation. Don't take my word on that. There's plenty of countries and kingdoms in history to back me up. The United States is not exempt. Having a president say that he is going to put criminals and the breaking of the law "behind us" goes against everything this once great Republic stood for. He was only lucky enough to have enough ignorant American citizens believe this foolishness. Expect anarchy, collapse and the fall.

"Justice is the end of government. It is the end of civil society. It ever has been, and ever will of civil society. It ever has been, and ever will be pursued, until it be obtained, or until liberty be lost in the pursuit."
James Madison, Federalist Paper No.51

"I, George Walker Bush, do solemnly swear, that I will faithfully execute the Office of the President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the United States, so help me God."

Here, Watch George Say He will uphold the Constitution(i.e. The Law) - (Real Player)

I personally would prefer for the Justice Department to be detaining and deporting terrorists at the moment, rather than baying after Clinton. I think Ashcroft might just be a little booked up right now.

While the comparison of Clinton to a Great White Whale is appealing, it's kind of sad to see people turning themselves into Captain Ahab.

There's no perfect justice in this world, and the demand for it just tears up people and societies and keeps them mired in the past. This "Bush must get Clinton at all costs to relieve our suffering" mentality is the right-wing version of black demands for reparations - living on the energy of grievance, playing the same tapes over and over, refusing to have a future until every wrong of the past has been avenged.

Bush had a choice when he took office a year ago - to spend four years fighting for programs he believed would help the country, or spend it chasing down Clinton and everyone he knew. Since 9-11, the choice has been even starker. And you're right - "getting Clinton" would not have been easy and probably not possible to do. It would have consumed the Administration's attention and torn the country apart. Bush made the right choice.

God will deal with Clinton; He's already started. Well within his lifetime, Clinton will be enter the national memory in a way that will punish him far worse than a trial for treason -- which he would almost certainly beat, and which would again have him in the limelight surrounded by adoring supporters and fabulous babes. He will be remembered as an embarrassing fool, a President whose only "legacy" was dirty jokes and terrorist destruction, an aging red-nosed loser whose incessant attempts to gain someone's -- anyone's -- adoration are the butt of late-night comics and fill everyone else with the kind of mixture of contempt, pity, embarrassment and the creeps that we always feel watching public self-degradation.

No, I wasn't into politics much then. Who was the attorney in the Iran-Contra thing?

Uncle Bill, I don't think that you and I have ever interacted in this forum, I do read your posts with great interests.

I don't want to come across as anything but sincere when I ask you this question.

What crime would you try Bill Clinton for?

palo, I'll ask you the very same question that I asked Uncle Bill.

What crime would you try Bill Clinton for?

Bravo!

Bookmarked.

"So much for Bush being a conservative, a conservative would never allow such Bias against the law."

Certainly they would ... as this thread attests to. They recognize that it would be political suicidal to stand up for their 'principles'.

There are so many I could spend the next three weeks documenting the laws broken and the statutes that apply. I've listed many on FR before. I'm not wasting my time. The president doesn't care about the law. The American people sure don't care, and apparently most freepers don't care.

More Americans than ever believe Bill Clinton broke the law, but most still don’t think it should cost him his job

Cost him his job? How about cost him his freedom!

If perjury is ok, let these folks out of prison RIGHT NOW.

115 American men and women are in jail - forever marked as felons - for having committed perjury in federal courts and before grand juries.

Lying Under Oath as President - 2 times
Lying Under Oath as Governor - 5 times
Lying Under Oath as Attorney General
Lying Under Oath in a Deposition
Lying Under Oath to a Grand Jury
Lying Under Oath as a Lawyer
Abuse of Power
Obstruction of Justice
Deriliction of Duty
Bribe Solicitation
Taking Bribes
Bribery of Cabinent Members
Bribery of State Officials
Treason
Corruption
Coersion
Graft
False Swearing
Malfeasance of Office
Perjury
Subornation of Perjury
Criminal Trespass
Witness Intimidation
Witness Tampering
Jury Tampering
Ethics Violations
Intentional Interference in the Administration of Justice
Misrepresentation
Civil Contempt of Court
Criminal Contempt of Court
Contempt of Congress
Contempt of the American People
High Crimes
Misdemeanors
Deception
False Testimony
Factually False Testimony
Misconduct
Serious Misconduct
Professional Misconduct
Notorious Misconduct
Obstruction of the Judicial Process
Recklessness
Grand Larceny
Extortion
Blackmail
Substance Abuse
Evidence Suppression
Illegal Foriegn Campaign Funding
Improper Exports of Sensitve Technology
Attempted Intimidation of Prosecutors
Destruction of Business Records with Intent to Defraud
Failure to Investigate Drug Trafficking
Real Estate Fraud
Criminalizing Frauds on Financial Institutions
Use of State Police for Personal Purposes
Illegal Loan Extraction
False Reports by Medical Examiners and Others Investigating Suspicious Deaths
Improper Futures Trading
Illegal Use of the Executive Branch
Character Defamation
Voter Fraud
Racketeering
Destruction of Evidence
Political Espionage
Money Laundering
Criminal Negligence
RICO Conspiracy
Misuse of Government Files
Desecration of Federal Ethics Laws
Judicial Intimidation
Conflict of Interests
Illegal Campaign Activity
Misuse of Corporate Assets
Ordering Politically Motivated Audits
Ordering Politically Motivated Investigations
Timing of War Influenced by Political Considerations
Misapplying Funds
Conspiracy to Defraud the Federal Government
Criminal Violation of the Privacy Act
Conspiracy to Conceal
Evisceration of the Right to Habeas Corpus
Misuse of Taxpayer Funds
Interfering with a Court Order
Theft of Government Property
Abuse of Taxpayer Financed Travel
Anti-American Espionage
Jeopardizing National Security
Aiding and Abetting Drug Traffic
Aiding and Abetting Organized Crime
Murder by Accessory by Witness Tampering
Murder by Accessory by Forgery
Foreign Influence Peddling
Regular Influence Peddling
Corrupting Public Discourse
Providing False and Misleading Testimony
Interferring with a Custody Case
Kidnapping by Accessory
Child Endangerment
Sexual Harassment
Indecent Exposure
Sexual Abuse of Employees
Lewd and Lascivious Conduct
Exchange of Promotions or Benefits for Sexual Favors
Sexual Assault
Statutory Rape
Contributing to the Delinquincy of a Minor
Unfit to hold a law license
Conduct Unbecoming a President
Squandering the Public Trust

Since they left the White House:

Theft of Government Property
Senate Ethics Rules Violations
Lying Under Oath as a Senator
Vandalism of Government Property
Grand Larceny
Felonious Mischief
Fraud
Felony Theft of Government Property
Illegal Negotiations With Foriegn Governments
Tax Evasion on Gifts Illegally Acquired
Subversion of the Presidential Pardon System

The American Spectator: February 1994 February 1994

Criminal Laws Implicated by the Clinton Scandals:
A Partial List

by Solitary, Poor, Nasty, Brutish & Short

As details concerning overlapping scandals involving President and Mrs. Clinton have emerged, the Clintons and their public relations lieutenants have been adamant that, whatever happened, there have been no allegations that any laws were broken.
Maybe not. But in the spirit of helping to inform the White House -- and the Special Prosecutor -- we offer the following list of potentially relevant criminal statutes, based on allegations that have appeared in the national press. We expect that special counsel Robert Fiske is preparing a similar list.
In compiling the list, we have not indulged in some of the wilder legal theories available -- thus, for example, we do not assert that the Clintons might be prosecutable for running a criminal enterprise in violation of RICO; nor do we include a charge, of the type beloved by Iran-contra prosecutor Lawrence Walsh, that the Clintons conspired to violate unenacted congressional policies. And, of course, because all the facts are not yet available, many statutes that may become relevant in the days ahead won't appear here. Even so, the most recent crop of Clinton scandals already suggests a fairly impressive catalogue of possible crimes:

Bill Clinton

Alleged misconduct	Statutes implicated	Penalty
1. While president, discussed possible federal jobs for Arkansas state troopers who had knowledge about potentially politically damaging stories of Clinton's marital infidelity and abuse of Arkansas Governor's office.	a. 18 U.S.C. 201, which makes it a crime to offer or promise "directly or indirectly" anything of value to someone with the aim of influencing that person's testimony under oath. b. 18 U.S.C. 1622, prohibiting subornation of perjury.	a. Up to 15 years in prison, a fine, and disqualification from any federal office of honor, trust, or profit. b. Up to 5 years in prison, $2,000 fine.
2. While president, approved actions by White House Counsel Bernard Nussbaum designed to circumscribe official federal investigations into White House aide Vincent Foster's death, and directed that documents found in Foster's office be removed from the White House and handed over to a private lawyer retained by the Clintons.	a. 18 U.S.C. 372, which prohibits conspiring to prevent any person -- here, the FBI and Park Service investigators -- from discharging the duties of federal office. b. 18 U.S.C. 1001, which makes it a crime to conceal material facts in connection with matters within the jurisdiction of a United States agency. c. 18 U.S.C. 1503 and 1505, which prohibit obstruction of justice and obstruction of Justice Department or Congressional inquiries.	a.Up to 6 years in prison, $5,000 fine. b. Up to 5 years in prison, $10,000 fine. c. Up to 10 years in prison, $10,000 fine.
3. While president, had Vincent Foster perform personal legal work at taxpayer expense.	Any of a number of statutes governing employees of the White House and misuse of appropriations, but in particular 31 U.S.C. 1519, prohibiting the creation of financial obligations unauthorized by appropriations.	Up to 2 years in prison, $5,000 fine.
4. While governor, used state troopers for personal errands, to facilitate extramarital affairs, and to investigate campaign opponents.	18 U.S.C. 666, which prohibits any state government employee from stealing or converting state property valued at over $5,000. (Theft of employee time has been held to be a theft prohibited under Section 666.)	Up to 10 years in prison and a fine of twice the amount of the pecuniary gain.
5. While governor, named John Latham, chief executive officer for Madison Guaranty, to a seat on the state S&L regulatory board. Also named Beverly Bassett, who had previously served as lawyer for Madison, commissioner of the Arkansas Securities Commission. Bassett would later give Madison regulatory approval on several of its requests. McDougal would later host a fundraiser that would allegedly funnel Madison funds to Clinton.	a. Section 5-52-101 of the Arkansas Criminal Code, which makes it a crime to trade in public offices. b. Section 5-52-103 of the Arkansas Criminal Code, which makes it a crime for a public servant to solicit a bribe.	a. Up to 1 year in prison, $1,000 fine. b. Up to 6 years in prison, $10,000 fine.
6. While governor, extracted an illegal Small Business Administration loan from David Hale's investment company which went to James McDougal's wife. The McDougals were partners with the Clintons in Whitewater Development Co. Mrs. McDougal thereafter gave a portion of her loan to Whitewater Development Co. The loan was never repaid.	a. 15 U.S.C. 645, which prohibits making false statements for the purpose of obtaining any loan from the Small Business Administration. b. 18 U.S.C. 371, making it a crime to conspire to defraud the federal government. c. 18 U.S.C. 1006, which makes it a crime to share "directly or indirectly" in any payment made in violation of federal laws governing small business investment companies. d. 18 U.S.C. 1344, criminalizing frauds on financial institutions. e. Section 5-42-204 of the Arkansas Criminal Code, which makes it a crime to launder the proceeds of criminal activity.	a. Up to 2 years in prison, $5,000 fine. b. Up to 5 years in prison, $10,000 fine. b. Up to 30 years in prison, $1,000,000 fine. d. Up to 30 years in prison, $1,000,000 fine. e. Up to 10 years in prison, $10,000 fine.
7. While Arkansas attorney general, shortly before becoming governor, received a 50-percent interest in Whitewater from the McDougals in return for an apparently nominal investment.	Section 5-52-103 of the Arkansas Criminal Code, which makes it a crime for a public servant to accept a bribe.	Up to 6 years in prison, $10,000 fine.
8. While governor, pressured McDougal to retain Hillary Clinton to represent his S&L in order to help the Clintons financially.	Section 5-52-103 of the Arkansas Criminal Code, which makes it a crime for a public servant to solicit a bribe.	Up to 6 years in prison, $10,000 fine.
9. While governor, advised Gennifer Flowers, in taped conversation, to state falsely that they had never talked about her obtaining a state job. ("If they ever ask you if you've talked to me about it, you can say no.")	a. 18 U.S.C. 1512, criminalizing attempts to influence testimony. b. Section 5-53-110 of the Arkansas Criminal Code, which prohibits tampering with witnesses.	a. Up to 10 years in prison, $250,000 fine. b. Up to 1 year in prison, $1,000 fine.
10. While governor, participated in the destruction of Whitewater files. The McDougals, partners with the Clintons in Whitewater, have stated that they delivered Whitewater's records to the Arkansas Governor's mansion at the request of Mrs. Clinton. Both Clintons deny receiving the documents, some of which are missing.	a. 26 U.S.C. 7206, which makes it a crime to destroy any record relating to the "financial condition of the taxpayer." b. Section 5-37-202 of the Arkansas Criminal Code, which prohibits the destruction of business records with the intent to defraud.	a. Up to 3 years in prison, $100,000 fine. b. Up to 1 year in prison, $1,000 fine.
11. While governor, benefited from numerous errors in tax filings having to do with illegal deductions, treatment of capital gains, unreported income, etc.	26 U.S.C. 7206, which makes it a crime to file a tax return that the filers do not believe to be true and correct as to every material matter.	Up to 3 years in prison, $100,000 fine.
12. While president, engaged in cover-up activities with respect to all of the above, involving, among other things, the making of false statements about his role in and knowledge of the various scandals, and conspiring with others to have them make similar false statements.	a. 18 U.S.C. 372, which prohibits conspiring to prevent any person (such as Justice Department investigators) from discharging the duties of federal office. b. 18 U.S.C. 1001, prohibiting concealment and false or misleading statements in connection with any matter within the jurisdiction of the Justice Department.	a. Up to 6 years in prison, $5,000 fine. b. Up to 5 years in prison, $10,000 fine.
Total potential criminal liability: disqualification from federal office, 178 years in prison, more than $2.5 million in fines.

Hillary Rodham Clinton

Alleged misconduct	Statutes implicated	Penalty
1. In 1985, as counsel for Madison, submitted audit to state regulators to demonstrate that Madison was solvent; four years later, after Madison's collapse, her law partner, Webster Hubbell, attacked the bona fides of the audit in litigation in which he represented the FDIC, calling into question what Mrs. Clinton knew and when she knew it.	a. 18 U.S.C. 1014, prohibiting false statements designed to influence "in any way" the actions of federal financial regulators. b. Section 23-34-108 of the Arkansas Code, which prohibits intentionally false statements regarding banks. c. Section 5-37-202 of the Arkansas Criminal Code, prohibiting the fraudulent creation of false business records.	a. Up to 30 years in prison, $1,000,000 fine. b. Up to 10 years in prison. c. Up to 1 year in prison, $1,000 fine.
2. Participated with her husband in the destruction of Whitewater files.	26 U.S.C. 7206, which makes it a crime to destroy any record relating to the "financial condition of the taxpayer."	Up to 3 years in prison, $100,000 fine.
3. Benefited with her husband from numerous errors in tax filings.	26 U.S.C. 7206, which makes it a crime to file a tax return that the filers do not believe to be true and correct as to every material matter.	Up to 3 years in prison, $100,000 fine.
Total potential criminal liability: 47 years in prison, more than $1.2 million in fines.

Bernard Nussbaum

Alleged misconduct

Statutes implicated

Penalty

1. With Clinton political aides, circumscribed FBI and Park Police investigations into Vincent Foster's suicide, and gave Foster files to Bill Clinton's personal lawyer.

a. 18 U.S.C. 372, which prohibits conspiring to prevent any person from discharging the duties of federal office.

b. 18 U.S.C. 1001, which makes it a crime to conceal material facts in connection with any matter within the jurisdiction of a United States agency.

c. 18 U.S.C. 1503 and 1505, which prohibit obstruction of justice and obstruction of Justice Department or Congressional inquiries.

a. Up to 6 years in prison, $5,000 fine.

b. Up to 5 years in prison, $10,000 fine.

c. Up to 10 years in prison, $10,000 fine.

Total potential criminal liability: 21 years in prison, $25,000 in fines.

Webster Hubbell, Associate Attorney General

Alleged misconduct

Statutes implicated

Penalty

1. As partner of Hillary Clinton in the Rose Law Firm, represented the FDIC in suit against Madison, without bothering to disclose to the FDIC that Mr. Hubbell's firm had previously represented Madison, or that Mrs. Clinton was a partner of McDougal.

a. 18 U.S.C. 208, which prohibits special government employees from acting in matters in which they or their partners have a financial interest.

b. 18 U.S.C. 1001, which makes it a crime to conceal material facts in connection with matters within the jurisdiction of a United States agency.

c. 18 U.S.C. 1007, which prohibits influencing "in any way" the actions of the FDIC by means of false statements.

a. Up to 5 years in prison and a fine.

b. Up to 5 years in prison, $10,000 fine.

c. Up to 30 years in prison, $1,000,000 fine.

Total potential criminal liability: 40 years in prison, more than $1 million in fines.

Betsey Wright, Former Clinton Aide, Current Associate

Alleged misconduct

Statutes implicated

Penalty

1. Visited Arkansas state trooper Danny Ferguson in an effort to get him to change his story that Bill Clinton offered troopers federal jobs to discourage them from speaking about his actions.

2. Failed to file election contribution reports identifying individual contributors to Clinton's 1984 gubernatorial campaign, thus hiding identity of possibly phantom contributors through whom McDougal funneled Madison funds to Clinton prior to Madison's collapse.

a. 18 U.S.C. 1512, criminalizing attempts to influence testimony.

b. 18 U.S.C. 1622, prohibiting subornation of perjury.

c. Section 5-53-110 of the Arkansas Criminal Code, which prohibits tampering with witnesses.

d. Section 7-6-205 of the Arkansas Code, which prohibits use of false names to make political contributions.

e. Section 7-6-207 of the Arkansas Code, requiring the filing of lists of political contributors.

a. Up to 10 years in prison, $250,000 fine.

b. Up to 5 years in prison, $2,000 fine.

c. Up to 1 year in prison, $1,000 fine.

d. Up to 1 year in prison, $1,000 fine.

e. Up to 1 year in prison, $1,000 fine.

Total potential criminal liability: 18 years in prison, more than $250,000 in fines.

"We’re going to go after all crime, and we’re going to make sure people get punished for the crime."
George W. Bush - Presidential Debate at Wake Forest University - Oct 11, 2000

If Bill Clinton didn't break the law, there is no law. George Bush wants to move on. I'm not.

Well then, you will be left behind Bill.

For the record, I think that the one prosecuteable offense was his lying under oath, and he was given a pass on that.

Treason would be impossible to prove, everything else would not be worth the time and effort.

At the end, he will be found not guilty of all charges, and be made a martyr.

The best punishment for Bill Clinton is obscurity.

You are actually maintaining him alive.

You make my point. The rule of law means nothing to you. Left behind? Thanks for the laugh. I don't want to belong to lawbreakers, or the groups and entities that further their cause, promote their lawlessness, and facilitate the fall of the Republic. Thanks.

"Although the Justice Department continues to say the probe is 'on the front burner', agents have told me there is little incentive to get things done," the Fox News commentator claimed. "In fact, one investigator said, if you push too hard on the case, you could find yourself in Fargo, N.D."

Hey, ain't obstruction of justice grand...when it's our guys obstructing...

I'm no lawbreaker, and I am most certainly no Clinton supporter, but like Southern Federalist says, there is no perfect justice in this world.

I can prove it too...OJ lives down here.

The majority of the items listed, while true, amount to nothing. Most evidence would be hearsay, very few of the charges nearly impossible to prove "beyond reasonable thought" standard which IS the Rule of Law in this country.

And if you are going to prosecute an ex-President for things like the ones listed, you better stand able to prove it, "beyond a reasonable doubt."

Look at your chart, charge by charge.

The outgoing president of the US brought up on charges that carry a maximum 1 year and a $1000 fine?

You want to prosecute an outgoing US President?

It better be treason.

Otherwise, it will become a witch-hunt

Having said that, do you believe that Bill Clinton can, under the strictest definition of the constitution, be found guilty of treason?

"The first principle of law is that like cases are supposed to be treated alike."