Help! Need some facts to counter liberal

[cjsdoc]

Was engaged in a discussion with a big time Lib last night. Her attacks on our Constitution (tainted, it was asserted, for it was drafted by a bunch of greedy white male slave owners who oppressed women), and the role we've played in international affairs (the U.S., I was informed, was the biggest exporter of violence, since we manufacture and distribute "all" of the weapons on the planet) were quite viscious. Nonsense, of course, but I am hoping that someone here could save me a few hours of research and provide some facts and/or some good leads for info. Could someone help with the following questions? 1. With regard to the state of the world when our Constitution was drafted, I suspect our Founding Fathers were remarkable visionaries. It would be interesting to know how other nations were treating subjects such as slavery, the right of women to vote (or the right of common people to vote, for that matter), and the disposition of the drafters concerning these issues. I remember reading years ago that some signers were categorically opposed to slavery, but chose not to push the point as it would have divided the Country before it was even formed. Any factoids out there? 2. How does the U.S. rank, globally, in terms of arms production/exports? 3. How does the U.S. rank in terms of financial aid to developing countries? How much comes from our taxes? How much from humanitarian organizations? 4. It seems that the greatest atrocities in the field of genocide have been committed by Marxists and fascists who attacked citizens of their own countries, and that they have succeeded in these efforts without any help from the U.S. Could someone give me quick list of the killers and the numbers murdered? My apologies if this is not the proper forum for a post such as this; I am a complete newbie. If I am off-base, I would welcome any assistance in finding the correct forum. Thanks very much for any help!

[gortklattu]

I forgot a point on my previous post: The US has been a WORLD LEADER in advocating freedoms. If we weren't around, our absence would have had terrible results in the field of human rights.

Another Point: I ask them outright if they understand even the basics of our government. I mean, a bookeeper should be able to know the basics of mathematics, shouldn't he? If not, what use is their opinion, since it isn't founded upon knowledge? What good is an opinion based on emotion and EGO?

Then I ask the liberal what form of government we have. It's a simple question, and the most basic one can ask.

Expect diversions when you ask this question. They usually don't want to answer it. So, redirect them back to the question, continuing to seek their answer.

They will usually (nine times out of ten) say that we're a Democracy, which is incorrect.

Article IV, Section 4 of the Constitution is clear that we're a "Republic."

I then ask them if they know what the difference is between a Republic and a Democracy. They usually don't have the slightest idea.

Then, here's the killer: I explain that elementary logic rules that for an conclusion to be valid, the premesis which support that conclusion must also be valid. Since their premise (that the US is a democracy) is invalid, their opinions are also invalid.

They hate that! Good luck!

[lawdude]

Ask her what specifically in the Constitution is unfair that hasn't been corrected by the Supremes? ALWAYS MAKE LIBS PROVIDE EVIDENCE. They can't! They always talk in generalities without basis!

[JZoback]

Liberals don't care about facts.

It's a waste of oxygen to talk the truth to them.

[LibKill]

If you format your text using the paragraph tag <p> it will be much easier to read.

Arguing with a liberal is much like arguing with a fence post. That said, keep trying. You may make a dent in her illogic.

[hangin' chad]

Tell her to move to Zimbabwe (f/k/a Rhodesia when it was named after a dead white guy). There she will get a first hand impression of "enlightened" rule by a leader embraced by the liberal left (Mugabe). Tell her not to be dismayed by the rapes, assaults, murders and arson being carried out against the white farmers in the name of black rule. The U.S. isn't shipping guns there but we are sending humanitarian aid now that the country has gone from a net exporter of food to one that cannot feed itself.

[logic101.net]

The leaders in state sponsored murder are Stalin, Mao, and Hiltler in that order. We had little to do with such evil regimes. Stalin eliminated many more Jews than did Hitler, the information didn't get much press since it came out after the USSR fell and was almost 50 yrs old by then.

Slavery is still practiced in much of Africa and some of the Arab states. We eliminated it well over 100 years ago.

The cheapest weapons come from former soviet block nations (including China; I said former). Few terrorists or gorillas (ok, I know it is spelled wrong) use the M-16, why? The M-16 is very hard to get in full auto, while an AK-47 with full auto is easy to find. Besides, it fires a better bullet (I never did like the wimpy .223 cal).

Most nations in the world are almost prison states. Our prisoners (even those at GITMO) are treated better than their law abiding citizens and have more rights.

In most nations, protesting the government is a crime. Remember the tanks and troups in China when their people protested for more freedoms?

We do have some problems here, mostly due to idots like your "friend" who elect liberals to office, but it is still the best nation in the world. Have we had some dark periods? Sure, but the difference is that we came out of them without having to overthrow the government.

A great book about how other nations have abused and murdered their people is written by JPFO, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership called "Gun Control, Gateway to Tyrany". They have a web site, but I just tried & couldn't get into it. But their phone # is: 1-414-769-0760.

Best wishes with your Socialist "friend".

MARK A SITY
http://www.logic101.net/

[cincinnati_Steve]

Hi ho, hi ho! I was surprised when I looked this up.

Japan actually whoops our butts in the foreign aid department. The CIA Factook (press this) shows this to be the case, but I checked several other sources, and it's true. Found this from the US Agency for Int. Development...the Greenbook to US Overseas Grants & Loans all the way back to 1945, available as a summary, or by country.

Here's a good article on international arms exporters, which ranks the US first, then Russia and France. Find it hard to believe that China isn't 2nd.

[vannrox]

Question #1. How does the US rank in Arms Exports?

List of Countries With 1994 Rank Per Variable

COUNTRY	ME	AF	AI	AE	GNP	POP	ME/ GNP	ME/ POP	ME/ AF	AF/ POP	AI/ TI	AE/ TE	GNP/ POP	COUNTRY
Afghanistan	86	75	68	32	124	47	18	120	113	119	19	2	159	Afghanistan
Albania	100	55	+	+	118	122	56	82	148	4	+	+	101	Albania
Algeria	51	35	27	+	57	37	51	74	72	82	28	+	92	Algeria
Angola	70	36	9	+	100	75	12	70	118	26	3	+	117	Angola
Argentina	24	61	75	+	17	31	108	45	20	122	97	+	31	Argentina
Armenia	110	76	76	+	90	120	145	93	147	24	18	+	77	Armenia
Australia	13	66	11	33	15	50	69	20	5	96	48	43	17	Australia
Austria	46	77	77	21	22	85	140	35	26	61	100	32	8	Austria
Azerbaijan	93	71	45	+	78	88	137	99	137	54	11	+	87	Azerbaijan
Bahrain	84	129	41	+	115	154	19	21	32	19	22	+	37	Bahrain
Bangladesh	72	39	78	+	64	8	104	151	126	151	77	+	148	Bangladesh
Barbados	155	+	+	+	135	164	149	72	+	+	+	+	40	Barbados
Belarus	91	45	+	+	49	69	161	103	145	36	+	+	49	Belarus
Belgium	26	69	54	28	20	74	107	24	18	65	98	49	11	Belgium
Belize	157	157	+	+	158	165	105	76	79	76	+	+	71	Belize
Benin	133	139	+	+	142	99	81	137	103	143	+	+	139	Benin
Bhutan	163	142	+	+	163	140	158	162	160	103	+	+	158	Bhutan
Bolivia	94	90	+	+	107	87	72	102	111	93	+	+	114	Bolivia
Bosnia and Herze.	60	58	32	+	136	125	1	31	66	5	1	+	121	Bosnia and Herze.
Botswana	85	130	69	+	117	144	20	42	37	59	35	+	65	Botswana
Brazil	18	27	35	17	9	5	132	79	31	140	72	25	53	Brazil
Brunei	82	144	+	+	116	162	13	4	16	20	+	+	25	Brunei
Bulgaria	57	49	+	22	59	80	63	50	67	31	+	11	51	Bulgaria
Burkina Faso	126	127	93	+	133	73	80	149	110	153	44	+	152	Burkina Faso
Burma	37	16	36	+	45	25	30	69	89	41	9	+	95	Burma
Burundi	136	101	94	+	154	93	43	143	146	107	21	+	160	Burundi
Cambodia	116	59	79	+	129	72	62	141	156	51	20	+	145	Cambodia
Cameroon	104	113	95	+	105	61	94	132	82	150	62	+	127	Cameroon
Canada	12	57	25	10	10	35	102	28	8	111	86	31	15	Canada
Cape Verde	160	158	+	+	162	156	136	130	129	118	+	+	111	Cape Verde
Central Afr. Rep.	142	143	+	+	151	126	53	123	100	132	+	+	136	Central Afr. Rep.
Chad	148	88	55	+	153	97	61	146	158	63	5	+	156	Chad
Chile	58	42	37	+	50	59	92	61	78	46	49	+	54	Chile
China-Mainland	3	1	29	4	3	1	78	75	52	113	85	13	82	China-Mainland
China-Taiwan	11	14	7	34	19	42	26	16	39	11	43	51	28	China-Taiwan
Colombia	55	32	61	+	44	30	96	84	86	87	71	+	84	Colombia
Congo	143	118	70	+	148	133	76	117	134	88	15	+	122	Congo
Costa Rica	137	131	+	+	91	123	160	124	125	116	+	+	73	Costa Rica
Croatia	56	50	62	+	79	108	9	33	60	15	58	+	68	Croatia
Cuba	78	33	+	+	65	63	112	85	139	23	+	+	80	Cuba
Cyprus	79	119	46	+	95	152	25	19	30	22	24	+	29	Cyprus
Czech Republic	41	46	38	8	35	68	65	37	42	37	57	8	33	Czech Republic
Denmark	35	91	56	38	27	102	91	17	12	70	84	48	4	Denmark
Djibouti	146	132	+	+	159	158	23	66	131	13	+	+	99	Djibouti
Dominican Rep.	98	95	63	+	84	86	130	108	107	104	36	+	94	Dominican Rep.
Ecuador	67	67	64	+	72	65	46	71	75	66	46	+	91	Ecuador
Egypt	49	13	2	39	55	17	35	87	124	48	8	23	113	Egypt
El Salvador	102	89	65	+	88	95	127	95	128	69	29	+	89	El Salvador
Equatorial Guinea	161	159	+	+	165	159	82	138	140	115	+	+	141	Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea	---	---	71	+	---	---	---	---	---	---	87	+	---	Eritrea
Estonia	105	120	66	49	83	142	143	68	76	56	27	20	42	Estonia
Ethiopia	95	37	+	+	110	22	68	157	155	121	+	+	164	Ethiopia
Fiji	135	145	+	+	134	151	101	77	83	68	+	+	74	Fiji
Finland	44	82	47	40	33	103	85	25	23	49	70	46	16	Finland
France	5	11	26	5	5	21	48	9	15	34	91	22	12	France
Gabon	107	140	80	+	122	146	57	58	57	67	39	+	62	Gabon
Gambia, The	153	160	+	+	161	149	41	109	61	145	+	+	129	Gambia, The
Georgia	124	135	+	+	99	96	151	129	91	141	+	+	100	Georgia
Germany	6	17	20	6	4	12	103	22	11	83	94	27	6	Germany
Ghana	128	136	+	+	106	54	148	156	101	163	+	+	135	Ghana
Greece	25	24	16	50	36	66	22	23	46	10	30	40	35	Greece
Guatemala	90	85	+	+	77	64	120	106	108	99	+	+	96	Guatemala
Guinea	122	114	+	+	121	92	116	131	120	125	+	+	119	Guinea
Guinea-Bissau	158	137	+	+	164	148	47	134	152	55	+	+	147	Guinea-Bissau
Guyana	159	152	+	+	160	153	118	125	130	108	+	+	116	Guyana
Haiti	138	+	50	+	137	91	95	145	+	+	6	+	142	Haiti
Honduras	125	102	81	+	126	100	115	127	136	98	42	+	118	Honduras
Hungary	54	63	82	41	43	71	98	49	47	60	92	34	43	Hungary
Iceland	+	+	+	+	101	163	+	+	+	+	+	+	10	Iceland
India	14	4	28	42	16	2	58	126	96	135	61	45	134	India
Indonesia	38	20	57	43	25	4	119	116	85	137	83	47	110	Indonesia
Iran	33	10	12	15	29	15	74	73	102	40	16	19	81	Iran
Iraq	36	15	+	+	68	45	4	46	93	9	+	+	109	Iraq
Ireland	66	103	48	+	54	119	122	41	27	75	75	+	26	Ireland
Israel	17	29	4	7	37	105	11	2	28	2	12	5	21	Israel
Italy	8	12	31	16	7	19	88	27	25	57	93	42	19	Italy
Ivory Coast	117	106	+	+	104	57	131	148	122	144	+	+	130	Ivory Coast
Jamaica	144	147	96	+	114	132	154	119	80	142	76	+	88	Jamaica
Japan	4	23	8	44	2	9	138	26	3	126	74	+	3	Japan
Jordan	74	44	58	29	102	115	15	53	115	3	33	7	93	Jordan
Kazakstan	71	100	+	+	53	53	142	88	41	146	+	+	66	Kazakstan
Kenya	92	96	83	+	98	34	86	144	98	158	63	+	143	Kenya
Korea, North	19	5	51	30	66	40	2	34	112	1	14	4	107	Korea, North
Korea, South	10	7	5	26	13	24	44	30	55	16	41	44	32	Korea, South
Kuwait	30	107	19	+	63	141	8	1	2	33	34	+	20	Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan	119	128	+	+	92	107	152	115	94	123	+	+	86	Kyrgyzstan
Laos	101	78	39	+	138	106	17	90	138	29	7	+	132	Laos
Latvia	89	153	+	+	75	130	121	63	14	159	+	+	50	Latvia
Lebanon	81	72	59	+	87	118	52	55	99	21	53	+	70	Lebanon
Lesotho	145	154	+	+	143	139	90	113	63	147	+	+	112	Lesotho
Liberia	140	155	+	+	140	127	89	121	59	160	+	+	120	Liberia
Libya	50	51	+	+	61	104	34	32	54	17	+	+	41	Libya
Lithuania	111	121	+	+	80	117	156	94	88	110	+	+	59	Lithuania
Luxembourg	96	161	+	+	69	160	147	29	9	112	+	+	1	Luxembourg
Macedonia	141	122	84	+	131	136	113	111	132	80	52	+	108	Macedonia
Madagascar	149	97	+	+	127	60	144	159	153	133	+	+	150	Madagascar
Malawi	154	123	+	+	145	76	135	161	150	148	+	+	162	Malawi
Malaysia	42	38	14	23	40	46	54	52	50	58	60	35	55	Malaysia
Mali	134	133	+	+	132	78	100	150	119	155	+	+	149	Mali
Malta	139	162	+	+	128	161	129	57	35	109	+	+	36	Malta
Mauritania	130	124	+	+	149	135	40	104	127	81	+	+	124	Mauritania
Mauritius	156	163	+	+	120	147	162	122	70	152	+	+	60	Mauritius
Mexico	39	30	42	35	12	11	155	89	66	124	82	41	52	Mexico
Moldova	108	115	+	18	81	110	150	92	84	114	+	1	69	Moldova
Mongolia	150	98	+	+	156	134	79	135	157	38	+	+	137	Mongolia
Morocco	53	28	30	+	62	33	37	78	96	50	26	+	102	Morocco
Mozambique	103	116	+	+	147	52	10	139	77	161	+	+	166	Mozambique
Namibia	120	134	85	+	125	143	97	81	90	72	45	+	83	Namibia
Nepal	127	83	86	+	113	43	134	158	151	129	37	+	151	Nepal
Netherlands	16	53	22	12	14	55	83	18	13	71	80	37	13	Netherlands
New Zealand	65	125	87	+	52	121	124	40	21	101	90	+	23	New Zealand
Nicaragua	132	110	+	+	144	114	67	128	141	95	+	+	133	Nicaragua
Niger	152	138	+	+	139	79	141	160	144	157	+	+	155	Niger
Nigeria	80	52	+	+	56	10	146	153	123	156	+	+	126	Nigeria
Norway	28	86	40	24	32	111	55	8	1	45	67	30	7	Norway
Oman	47	87	52	+	85	137	3	7	22	18	31	+	48	Oman
Pakistan	31	9	18	51	48	7	21	91	105	85	17	38	128	Pakistan
Panama	+	117	+	+	97	131	+	+	+	86	+	+	72	Panama
Papua New Guin.	121	146	+	+	109	113	133	114	62	149	+	+	97	Papua New Guin.
Paraguay	106	108	88	+	94	101	126	97	97	102	56	+	90	Paraguay
Peru	62	40	72	+	51	38	110	83	87	78	68	+	79	Peru
Philippines	52	41	33	+	42	14	93	98	68	134	65	+	106	Philippines
Poland	23	22	97	31	21	29	77	48	48	52	99	26	44	Poland
Portugal	40	54	15	14	34	67	71	38	53	47	32	17	30	Portugal
Qatar	83	126	+	11	93	155	39	15	34	14	+	3	22	Qatar
Romania	48	26	+	27	41	39	66	59	81	39	+	15	61	Romania
Russia	2	3	+	3	8	6	7	12	19	30	+	9	45	Russia
Rwanda	99	80	43	+	141	84	14	112	133	77	2	+	153	Rwanda
Sao Tome & Prin.	164	148	+	+	166	166	164	163	162	6	+	+	154	Sao Tome & Prin.
Saudi Arabia	9	31	1	45	30	51	6	6	10	32	4	50	38	Saudi Arabia
Senegal	118	111	98	+	119	82	111	136	117	131	66	+	125	Senegal
Serbia and Mont.	64	34	+	52	86	70	16	60	104	25	+	12	105	Serbia and Mont.
Sierra Leone	131	112	+	+	155	109	24	133	135	105	+	+	157	Sierra Leone
Singapore	32	68	17	36	39	128	31	5	24	12	69	52	9	Singapore
Slovakia	61	74	+	46	60	98	73	43	51	35	+	29	39	Slovakia
Slovenia	87	104	89	53	70	138	128	54	69	42	81	36	34	Slovenia
Somalia	162	93	+	+	157	90	163	164	161	94	+	+	163	Somalia
South Africa	34	43	73	25	31	26	75	62	38	120	89	24	67	South Africa
Spain	15	25	10	9	11	28	114	39	29	64	59	21	27	Spain
Sri Lanka	69	94	34	+	82	49	29	86	44	138	23	+	115	Sri Lanka
Sudan	75	48	+	+	89	32	28	110	109	106	+	+	138	Sudan
Suriname	123	156	+	+	146	157	38	51	43	79	+	+	63	Suriname
Swaziland	151	149	+	+	150	150	109	101	106	97	+	+	103	Swaziland
Sweden	20	60	67	19	23	81	59	13	17	43	96	33	14	Sweden
Switzerland	22	81	60	13	18	89	99	10	7	62	95	28	2	Switzerland
Syria	29	18	90	+	38	56	32	36	73	8	78	+	47	Syria
Tajikistan	113	150	91	+	96	94	139	118	45	162	38	+	98	Tajikistan
Tanzania	112	73	92	+	130	36	49	155	149	127	54	+	165	Tanzania
Thailand	27	19	13	+	26	18	64	64	64	74	55	+	75	Thailand
Togo	147	141	+	+	152	112	60	142	121	136	+	+	146	Togo
Trinidad & Tobag.	109	151	+	+	112	145	106	67	40	117	+	+	56	Trinidad & Tobag.
Tunisia	68	84	53	+	73	83	45	65	58	89	50	+	85	Tunisia
Turkey	21	8	6	47	28	16	36	56	92	27	13	39	78	Turkey
Turkmenistan	115	109	+	+	76	116	159	107	116	91	+	+	58	Turkmenistan
Uganda	114	64	+	+	111	48	117	152	154	100	+	+	144	Uganda
Ukraine	59	47	+	20	24	23	157	96	71	130	+	16	57	Ukraine
United Arab Emir.	45	65	23	+	58	129	27	11	33	7	40	+	24	United Arab Emir.
United Kingdom	7	21	24	2	6	20	50	14	6	84	88	10	18	United Kingdom
United States	1	2	3	1	1	3	33	3	4	53	79	6	5	United States
Uruguay	76	92	+	+	71	124	70	47	56	44	+	+	46	Uruguay
Uzbekistan	77	99	74	37	47	41	153	105	49	154	47	14	76	Uzbekistan
Venezuela	63	56	49	+	46	44	123	80	74	92	51	+	64	Venezuela
Vietnam	73	6	44	+	67	13	84	140	159	28	25	+	140	Vietnam
Yemen	43	62	21	+	74	58	5	44	36	73	10	+	104	Yemen
Zaire	97	70	+	+	103	27	87	154	143	139	+	+	161	Zaire
Zambia	129	105	99	+	123	77	125	147	142	128	64	+	131	Zambia
Zimbabwe	88	79	100	48	108	62	42	100	114	90	73	18	123	Zimbabwe

The variables, their abbreviations, and their data units are as follows:

Military expenditures (ME) . . . . . . . . . . . . Millions of dollars Armed forces (AF). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Thousands Arms exports (AE). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Millions of dollars Arms imports (AI) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Millions of dollars Gross national product (GNP) . . . . . . . . . . Millions of dollars Population (POP) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Millions GNP per capita (GNP/POP) . . . . . . . . . . . . Dollars ME/GNP . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Percent ME per capita (ME/POP) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Dollars ME per soldier (ME/AF) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Dollars Armed forces per 1,000 people (AF/POP). . Soldiers Arms exports total exports (AE/TE) . . . . . . Percent Arms imports total imports (AI/TI) . . . . . . . Percent

[vannrox]

However, just because the US is listed as #1 in 1994 as the largest exporter of military weaponary is very misleading. We sell the most expensive equipment. Our major sales are in the high tech area. Most wars over the last century really involve small arms skermishes. The US does NOT lead in this area. If it did, the Terrorists would all be carrying M-16's instead of the AK-47's that all the Terrorists seem to carry.

Transparency in the Legal Small Arms Trade

Prepared by Lora Lumpe
International Peace Research Institute, Oslo/NISAT
For the Swiss Government Workshop on Small Arms
Geneva, 18-20 February 1999 

---

In the past few years governments and civil society have devoted increasing levels of attention to the long-neglected humanitarian danger posed by the proliferation and misuse of military style small arms around the world. To date, however, concerned parties have not come to broad agreement as to the main problem.

Is the major threat posed by existing stocks of "illicit" weaponry in circulation in zones of conflict? Or are on-going legal transfers also of concern?(1)  If it is the former, how does one define the term, given that the licit trade and the illicit traffic in small arms are inextricably linked? For example, arms that are originally exported legally, but are not properly tracked or secured, often fall into illegal circulation, as theft or capture of state security forces’ weapons is a major source of black-market supply around the world. And what about legally transferred weapons that are used in an illegal manner (e.g., by repressive government forces to carry out human rights abuses)?

Currently there is very little hard data available about the principal sources of small arms supply and trafficking. As a result, the relative importance of the legal versus the illegal trade in arming combatants and criminals around the globe is unknown. In the absence of basic information about the magnitude and destinations of state-sanctioned small arms supply, well-intentioned policymakers might be prioritizing complicated and perhaps costly policy options related to the illicit trade that would have less impact than would relatively simple and straightforward measures relating to accountability in the legal trade.

One of the most important initiatives that governments concerned about the humanitarian and criminal impact of small arms proliferation could undertake is to provide greater transparency around the small arms exports they are authorizing.

Approximately seventy states produce small arms and/or ammunition.(2)  Some small arms production enterprises are state-owned (usually military armories), and some are privately-owned companies. Researching what the major small arms producing states manufacture is not difficult; there are several standard sources of information. Determining production quantities (or output) is much more difficult, and knowing where weapons are being exported is nearly impossible. The standard sources of data on the international arms trade—SIPRI, the UN Register of conventional Arms, World Military Expenditures and Arms Transfers—do not include information on small arms shipments. Few governments provide information to their public or parliaments on major weapons exports they have approved (like tanks and jets), and even fewer provide information on this low-end sector of the trade.

The US government is the most notable exception to the prevailing pattern of secrecy. Since 1996, except for covert arms supply operations, the United States openly reports in a disaggregated manner its small arms shipments and export license approvals.(3)  The Canadian government provides less detailed, but fairly specific information about its small arms exports, and the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden provide aggregated data on their exports, as well.

Fuller information about the magnitude and destination of current and future small arms shipments is a necessary prerequisite for development of sound policy recommendations. Transparency would also facilitate and improve the ability of governments to ensure end-use verification of weapons exports they are authorizing. If such information were made public, increased transparency would allow the non-governmental community, as well as national legislatures, to play an important role in aiding governments’ efforts to curb diversion of these arms by providing oversight through research, questioning and reporting.

Such information is also important to aid and relief workers, who might be working in a region where a sudden influx of guns has occurred or is anticipated. Transparency around planned arms shipments (that is, timely information exchange about license approvals granted) could prove to be an early warning indicator of pending violence and instability. While individual states might not be granting unusually large numbers of export licenses to a particular destination, when placed side by side with other suppliers’ export approvals, disturbing trends might become apparent.

Greater governmental transparency would also help evaluate the real impact of small arms on people and societies. Although widely assumed to be a significant factor, there has been no scientific investigation of the impact of small arms supply in terms of outbreak, sustainment or escalation of civil warfare. The dearth of data on arms transfers currently hinders the ability of researchers to conduct such studies.

On a more positive note, increased openness about weapons shipments could serve as a confidence-building measure among forces within a state, or states in a region, potentially heading off some purchases spurred on by "fear of the unknown." Finally, such information would greatly facilitate disarmament, whether through peacekeeping or other initiatives, by providing some baseline information about arms supply in the state or region.

Increased transparency is possible at the global, regional and national levels. The United Nations and regional security organizations can help facilitate the former two, but such initiatives are, of course, predicated on a willingness by governments to engage in greater openness. Policy analysts continually promote expansion of the UN Register of Conventional Arms to include small arms and light weapons as a desirable goal, but an expert panel reviewing the Register in 1997 decided against doing so, largely because the rationale for the Register is to indicate destabilizing build-ups of major weapons systems.

Meanwhile, with no elaboration, US Secretary of State Albright called in September 1998 for the creation of an "international center" for exchange of information on small arms transfers. There has been no further elaboration of this idea. The already extant Wassenaar Arrangement might prove a particularly suitable forum for regular (perhaps quarterly) information exchange by its members on potential small arms shipments licensed for export—if traditional resistance in this regard by some members can be overcome.

The research community could help lay out a realistic template for governmental transparency, identifying and rebutting obstacles to openness. What must be revealed by exporters (and importers)? What would be nice to know, but could be omitted in an effort to protect business confidentiality? Given the difficulty of persuading all countries (most importantly, supplier countries) to participate in a transparency regime, what would the value be of partial participation in such an effort?

Concerned states need not wait for some complicated global agreement. They can and should become transparent unilaterally, as did the United States and Canada. Small arms are not strategic weapons. Openness about production and shipment of such weapons will not jeopardize national security, although it might compromise business interests of a firm trying to make a sale, if the buyer wants the deal to remain cloaked in secrecy. But the need on the part of the buyer for secrecy should be examined, and the business interests of the arms firm must be weighed against other interests of the exporting state.

_____________

(1) Recent field research by Human Rights Watch and the UN Commission of Inquiry has shown that newly-manufactured weapons continue to enter combat zones in Central Africa and elsewhere. And US government reports demonstrate that American-made weaponry was cleared for export in 1996 and 1997 to some states engaged in civil conflicts, including Turkey and Colombia.

(2) The most prominent manufacturers are Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria, China, Egypt, France, Germany, Israel, Poland, Romania, Russia, Singapore, South Africa, United Kingdom and the United States.

(3)  According to annual reports now required by the Commerce, State and Defense Departments, in 1996 the State and Commerce Departments approved more than $590 million of small arms and light weapons exports, and the Department of Defense gave away 74,000 assault rifles and over 5,000 grenade launchers. Thousands more were sold by the Pentagon. Because other supplier governments are not open about their light weapons sales and shipments, it is not possible to rank the United States’ place in the global small arms trade.

 

[weikel]

Britain became very anti slavery in the early 1800's the Boer's of South Africa did not share their enthusiasm if only because they were vastly outnumbered by the black population.

[Sci Fi Guy]

With regards to the first question, Try to put it into historical context. 1. Slavery was a fact of life. When England stopped their slave trade. Black tribal leaders journeyed to England to beg them to reconsider. Their economies depended on the slave trade. 2. The Founding Fathers did not have enough support to end slavery, but they did manage to establish the principles which would end slavery. (i.e. all men created equal, etc) 3. Consider their point of view for a moment. While it was considered normal. It was also in decline. They did not expect slavery to last another generation. It was the invention of the cotton gin that revived the slave trade.

I would check out the book Vindicating the Foundars by Thomas G West.

Questions 2 and 3: Every country that can sell arms, does. If the US sells more, it just means that we are better at it than everyone else. I think your response should be "So what?" Force the Lib to discuss specifics. Was it wrong to sell arms to the British in WW2? What about Taiwan today? etc. The question of foreign aid should be why give any at all. Foreign Aid is like welfare, ok in an emergency, but does more harm than good long term. I would point out to her that what these 3rd world nations need is economic freedom. Why does Hong Kong prosper, while nations like haiti endure extreme suffering?

[FITZ]

I agree. Discussing with liberals is too difficult. They don't think, they feel. Facts aren't going to matter anyhow, if we're giving more humanitarian aid than anyone else it still won't change a liberal's mind. All they want is a perfect socialist world where no one has a dime more than anyone else. That is the gullible who believe what they're told. The real Socialists want the government to control everything because they expect to control the government.

[Kewlhand`tek]

it is a complete waste of time to reason with them. They believe in total untrue as we believe in truth. They surely wont persuade me to their view.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

50 million Kalishnikovs were not made in the US.

[tcostell]

I agree with many here that facts won't win over a liberal, bat maybe a personal account can. I'd like to relate a story told to me by a dear freind who is a naturalized citizen originally from China. During the cultural revolution in China, Mao attempted to reorganize the local farms into collectives. This led to massive logistical failers at harvest time which took over 5 years to get under control and resulted in massive starvation. While the general consensus is that 20 million people died, it's difficult to tell exaclty because so many went undocumented.

During this time my freinds parents were living in their villiage near the city of Chengdu in China's southwest, and were barely scraping by. Since their villiage was on the river, many people would pass by on the way to Chengdu. His mother met a couple one day who were obviously starving as many were at the time. They carried with them a small child who had died, but the parents staggered along carrying it seemingly oblivious to the fact. When my freinds mother went to the couple and said "I'm so sorry for your loss, but your child has died." The woman carrying the child broke down and said "oh you can never imagine my shame, .....we despise ourselves for even thinking what we have...... we know our child is dead but we could not bear to bury it because we're being driven mad with hunger and it no longer needs its flesh..." My freinds mother then stopped her and said "Please come with me, today you will eat at my home. We have almost nothing, but we will give you all we have, just please don't do this." They buried the child, and shared what they had, then the couple went on and they never saw them again.

China under Mao, a socialist paradise.