As Captor, U.S. Risks Dehumanizing Itself

IHT - International Herald Tribune ^ | FR Post 02-02-02 | William Pfaff

[vannrox]

As Captor, U.S. Risks Dehumanizing Itself

William Pfaff

International Herald Tribune

For Related Topics See:
Opinion & Editorial

NEW YORK People here still call Sept. 11 the day that changed the world, but it's not true. The events of Sept. 11 changed the United States, not the world - and go on doing so.

They changed America's modern history and the American consciousness. The rest of the world has had to live with terrorism, accommodating its shocks and demands. No other country has ever believed itself invulnerable. Only the United States possessed a conviction of invulnerability, which it lost on Sept. 11. At the same time, an American sense of impunity was reinforced, which lies behind its unilateralist policies today. .


The international controversy over the prisoners at Guantánamo Bay has posed important legal and human rights issues, but it also is contributing to the definition - or redefinition - of the moral identity of America, not only in the eyes of the world, but for Americans themselves. .


Common sense would say that if there is indeed a war against terrorism, then the prisoners are prisoners of that war, unless Washington is prepared to assert that its war against terrorism is in some way not a war..


. The administration's position is that the combatants of Al Qaeda are outside the law because they carry out, or defend, terrorism. However, the combatant who places himself outside the law nonetheless falls under the jurisdiction of law when he is captured and held by a nation of law. ..


This would seem to be true even if the prisoners fall into one (or both) of the categories of combatants excluded from the Geneva conventions: forces that do not themselves observe the laws of war, such as terrorists and death squads, and civilians who engage in hostilities..


. The United States has claimed that because its prisoners were not uniformed members of the forces of a generally recognized government, they have no rights in international law; and as they are not U.S. citizens and are not on American territory, they have no rights in American law. ..


The Geneva conventions provide that if "any doubt" exists as to the status of prisoners, they must be treated as prisoners of war until a "competent tribunal" decides. U.S. Army regulations contain a similar requirement. Secretary of State Colin Powell and the State Department want the United States to observe the Geneva conventions. ..


President George W. Bush has said that his government will never "call them prisoners of war," but that he will "listen to all the legalisms.".


. Law, however, is one thing. Something else is involved here. Vice President Dick Cheney said Sunday that these prisoners deserve extraordinary treatment because "these are the worst of a very bad lot. They are devoted to killing millions of Americans - innocent Americans.".


. Mr. Bush said Monday the prisoners "are killers, these are terrorists, they know no countries.".


. From the beginning, the rhetoric of this administration has identified the enemy in terms of absolute evil, the war as expression of a metaphysical combat between good and evil, and Al Qaeda fighters and their Taliban allies as people not to be defeated, but destroyed..


. The shackled, hooded prisoners photographed at Guantánamo Bay seemed a fulfillment of this rhetoric of demonization and dehumanization. That is why the photograph was such a shock to international opinion. The administration's unwillingness to concede the prisoners a legitimate status in international law has reinforced the notion that the United States considers them less than human..


. Dehumanization of the enemy nearly always occurs in war and is responsible for its worst atrocities. The Nazis identified Jews as an enemy to be exterminated, and told their soldiers that Poles and Russians were subhumans to be treated as slaves. ..


In democratic countries it is the responsibility of leaders to govern their language. National policy must respect the humane values defended in the constitution, and treat even enemies with the dispassion required in a nation that has willingly submitted itself to the regime of law. Otherwise the democracy betrays itself..

[vannrox]

---> No surprises. It seems this European intellectual firstly states that Americans are totally different than Europeans.


He then continues to IMPLY that Amerians are that way because we are, more or less, pampered bullies.


Then, after insulting us, this self asserted "expert" then describes what America SHOULD do, based upon his own concepts of the ideal.


I am losing my patience for these fools...


GET WITH THE PROGRAM!
YOU ARE EITHRE WITH US OR AGAINST US.
Get ready to GLOW if you aren't going to stand by our side.

[Asclepius]

... Common sense would say that if there is indeed a war against terrorism, then the prisoners are prisoners of that war, unless Washington is prepared to assert that its war against terrorism is in some way not a war ...

Washington has already asserted that this is a different kind of war. Pay attention, buttheads.

[Lurker]

The administration's unwillingness to concede the prisoners a legitimate status in international law has reinforced the notion that the United States considers them less than human..

That's because these scum are less than human.

L

[knak]

They changed America's modern history and the American consciousness. The rest of the world has had to live with terrorism, accommodating its shocks and demands.

Yeah well, the BIG difference is the United States won't put up with it.

[Montfort]

I think they are like pirates. I seem to vaguely remember that the law on pirates was that if your found them you could do pretty much whatever you wanted with them. They were without protection of law.

If the law on this point has changed because of committee meetings of egghead ivory tower bleeding heart intellectuals, then any change was a mistake.

Now the problem with all this is that a truly lawless nation could just imprison whoever they want and call the prisoners terrorists. Any legal system depends on certain minimum standards of good faith by the officialdom. Liek my criminal procedure professor said, none of the Constitutional law on criminal procedure is worth anything if the police decide to lie.

[Senator Pardek]

That's because these scum are less than human.

True - but ask anyone where they'd feel better taken care of - a max. security lockup in the States or Gitmo, and they'll pick Gitmo every time.

[financeprof]

William Pfaff has been wrong consistently for over 25 years. Why should he change now? He is a perfect compass--just do exactly the opposite of what he suggests.

[fhillary2]

The pompous clymer who wrote this screed should reexamine his recent history. I will grant that we have not seen the same amount of terrorist attacks on American soil as other countries; but every time an American leaves our country there is a bullseye on their clothes because we are Americans.

How many Americans have been killed overseas since the birth of modern Middle Eastern Terrorism? I say a lot more than most countries and yet we still go overseas and take that risk. We are not, and have never been, under any illusions of invincibility as regards terrorist attack on American soil; at least not the folks who pick up a newspaper and keep track of world events.

As the Scottish say, "Ye with us or ye again us"; choose wisely Europeans.

[weikel]

Thats why America will still be great into the future for a long time.

[Ima Lurker]

Fine. Let's not take any prisoners. I would much rather they all "die in battle" anyway.

[weikel]

Your a finance prof just wondering I know that the economy is recovering and now is the time to buy but anything you would suggest.

[Wormwood]

Pardon this brief interruption.

Kill them all. Oh, that statement may be dehumanizing, but you and I both know it;s the olay way the west will every be safe from these barbarous jihadi pigs.

Okay, continue your discussion.

[lepton]

... Common sense would say that if there is indeed a war against terrorism, then the prisoners are prisoners of that war, unless Washington is prepared to assert that its war against terrorism is in some way not a war ...

By international convention, those conducting war that are not in uniform are not legal combatants, and are therefore not protected under the conventions.

[TruthShallSetYouFree]

Common sense would say that if there is indeed a war against terrorism, then the prisoners are prisoners of that war, unless Washington is prepared to assert that its war against terrorism is in some way not a war..

This Pfaff is just another lefty looney. Hey, putz, did you ever hear of a metaphor? You're a journalist, aren't you? Oh, yeah, I forgot. We'd better start classifying low-level street dealers as POW's because, after all, imbecile there's a War on Drugs. And, let's remember to put a big fat POW on those big, fat, welfare moms because, in case you forgot, your old liberal buddy, LBJ declared a War on Poverty.You'd better hope they don't expand Bush's education bill and declare a War on Stupidity because there will be an orange jumpsuit with your name on it, Pfaff. And it will say PFOW.

[Shermy]

Who is this Pfaff guy? The world didn't change? No, his mind won't change (something I said at another thread, then find more proof here!) Maybe France wants the denial status quo, but Russia, India, etc. etc. have changed. He's an idiot.

[hinckley buzzard]

Since opening the camp at Gitmo there have been visits by Red Cross, British, US Senators of both parties, other reporters and visitors.

The full consensus is that the detainees are treated humanely, and well within the spirit of the Geneva Convention for POW's, even though they clearly are not and cannot be so defined.

But this dolt is still yammering about the one photo taken while the first bunch were being processed in. As if security precautions during travel were the status quo.

At this late date he should know better; and if he does, he should dry up and start acting like an adult instead of just one more piece of eurotrash.

[Green Knight]

You're absolutely right. We're got a War on Drugs going on, but I don't here anyone complaining about us not treating drug dealers as POW's.

The rest of the world has had to live with terrorism, accommodating its shocks and demands. No other country has ever believed itself invulnerable. Only the United States possessed a conviction of invulnerability, which it lost on Sept. 11. At the same time, an American sense of impunity was reinforced, which lies behind its unilateralist policies today. .

This paragraph just makes me sick to the pit of my stomach. So we're impudent, huh? Because unlike Europeans, we're not willing to bend over and take it the way they do? Because we're not willing to live with terrorism, accomodate it, and make excuses for it? If that makes us impudent, then so be it. I'd rather be impudent then be a snivelling coward any day!

[vannrox]

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