SAUDIS TELL U.S. FORCES TO GET OUT

The Guardian ^ | 01-18-02 | The Guardian

[StopDemocratsDotCom]

Saudis tell US forces to get out ;Foreign soldiers seen as political liability

Saudi Arabia's rulers are poised to throw US strategy in the Middle East into disarray by asking Washington to pull its forces out of the kingdom because they have become a "political liability". Senior Saudi officials have privately complained that the US has "outstayed its welcome" and that the kingdom may soon request that the American presence - a product of the Gulf war - is brought to an end.

Both the White House and the US state department insisted yesterday that the military arrangement between the two countries was still working. The White House spokesman, Ari Fleischer, said that the president, George Bush, "believes that our presence in the region has a very helpful and stabilising effect in a dangerous region".

Relations between the US and Saudi Arabia, Washington's closest Arab ally, have been severely strained since September 11. Both sides have been desperately denying for months that there is a rift.

The US is reluctant to withdraw its 4,500 troops from the Prince Sultan air base, south of Saudi's capital Riyadh, because it could be perceived as a propaganda victory for Osama bin Laden, who frequently protested at the presence of non-believers so close to the main Muslim holy sites.

But the increasingly brittle and vulnerable ruling House of Saud is nervous about an internal revolt by Bin Laden's al-Qaida terror network and other extremist militants, and has been publicly loosening its links with Washington.

The huge Prince Sultan air base played a crucial logistical role in the bombing of Afghanistan. Withdrawal would upset the military balance in the Middle East by providing a boost to the Iraqi president, Saddam Hussein. US planes based in Saudi regularly bomb along the Iraqi border as part of its policy of containment of Saddam.

Britain, which jointly patrols the Iraqi no-fly zone with the US, has planes based both in Saudi and Kuwait. A pull-out by Washington would switch the focus to the British air base in Kuwait, whose leaders try to avoid drawing attention to the British presence.

Two senior US state department officials have been in Saudi this week: William Burns, the assistant secretary for the near east, and Lincoln Bloomfield, the assistant secretary for political and military affairs.

The US state department insisted yesterday that at no point during Mr Bloomfield's visit, either formally or informally, had the Saudis said they wanted the US to leave.

But the US ambassador to Saudi, Robert Jordan, was quoted as saying when Mr Bloomfield arrived in the kingdom: "He is here for consultations with the Saudi government to review our presence here and to discuss what we need and what we don't need."

The US secretary of state, Colin Powell, who is in Nepal, denied the Saudis wanted a withdrawal: "There has been no discussion of such an issue."

Many in the US have been upset with Saudi because not only is it Bin Laden's native country but 15 of the 19 terrorists involved in the September 11 attacks were from the kingdom. The Saudi media have reported that about 200 Saudis have been captured in Afghanistan fighting with al-Qaida and the Taliban.

The kingdom is volatile, with a stagnant economy, high unemployment, no democratic outlets and King Fahd unable to crack down on militant clerics.

Hostility to the US is widespread but that is mirrored in the US where there is a huge well of resentment that, having fought to push back Iraq in 1991 and having protected Saudi since, Riyadh refused to provide military help during the Afghan campaign.

Reflecting this, Carl Levin, who heads the US Senate armed services committee, said: "We need a base in that region, but it seems to me we should find a place that is more hospitable."

Bin Laden listed as the main justifications for the attacks on New York and Washington the presence of the US soldiers in the kingdom, US support for Israel in the conflict with the Palestinians, and the US campaign against Iraq. He said six years ago: "There is no more important duty than pushing the American enemy out of the holy land [of Arabia]."

The US could continue its containment of Iraq from aircraft carriers based in the Gulf. But the US air force secretary, James Roche, said a pull-out would make life awkward: "It would be difficult, unless we could replicate the air operations centre somewhere else."

[BuckeyeOhio]

If we have to leave Saudi Arabia, I say we go - BUT take absolutely everything with us. Don't leave a thing behind that we built. And if we can take it, blow it up. Maybe Afganistan would appreciate our "junk".

[MJY1288]

"bin laden and al qaeda to wrest control of the pakis NUKES and think theyre going to launch a few at israel, or ANYWHERE, including out to sea, that bin baby and friends think they can destroy vast numbers of american troops."

I worried about a plot by OBL to lure 500,000 U.S. troops into Afghanistan and have one of his stooges detonate a NUKE and wipe the region off the map while he slips into some other despotic hell hole. I was glad to see only small numbers of Spec. Ops, CIA Ops, Army Spec. Forces, and a few marines deployed to the region, Hats off to Tommy Franks for devoloping the plan to assist and use the N. Alliance in taking back the country from the Taliban.

I am more afraid of these cave dwelling diaper heads regrouping and launching suicide missions that kill small numbers of our boys at a time. We have to be patient and alert. We can't let this turn into a another political quagmire like Nam was. Friendly by day, Gook by night, and Afghanistan has a terrible resemblence

[1 FELLOW FREEPER]

NO PROBLEM! JUST AS SOON AS WE TAKE BACK OUR OIL WELLS.

[vollmond]

The most important issue is: What happens to the lawsuit filed by the female Air Force pilot in Saudi Arabia?

[JSteff]

I don't think the venal, autocratic, fundamentalist Wahhabist regime in Arabia has much further to go before it collapses. As well it should.

But replaced by who or what? Another Islamic fundamentalist regime? Then what? This will be tough and get worse before better me thinks.

[willyboyishere]

This only makes sense from the Saudis if it's intended for internal public consumption: "we want the Americans out, just like you, al-Qaeda, but they just won't leave. Continue taking it out on them, not us." I wish we would get out and leave that whole part of the world to the obscurity it so richly deserves. That will kick one prop at least out from underneath the terrorist's premise. Then there's still Israel and the Palestinians, which is where all the superheated focus is going these days anyway.

[hove]

"...while we drive exhausting H2O."

And where will we get all of the H2 for our fuel cell cars???

[RLJVet]

The most important issue is: What happens to the lawsuit filed by the female Air Force pilot in Saudi Arabia?

Yeah, let's talk about THAT. She had to dress modestly and couldn't even drive a car! Her suffering must have been immense.

[1 FELLOW FREEPER]

While we are at it, we can loot their banks to pay for Desert Storm.

[MJY1288]

"But replaced by who or what? Another Islamic fundamentalist regime? Then what? This will be tough and get worse before better me thinks"

I have to agree, I just don't know how we can have a dialog with a civilization that is still living in the 9th century and likes it that way.

I wonder if it was wise for us to venture into the middle east to begin with, we could have waited for National Geographic to do a special on them every 10 years or so.

[EternalHope]

Our small garrison is Saudi Arabia is mixed with the incompetent but more numerous Saudi forces if we don't have that token garrison there we don't have to worry about them being used as human shields...

Our force is kept deliberately small in the hope that it will be less offensive that way. Most of them are support personnel for command and control, and air operations. We do not have a lot of the ground troops that would be needed to hold a base deep in hostile territory.

In other words, the current situation makes it relatively easy to capture our military personnel. The many American civilians in Saudi Arabia would be even easier to capture. The potential human shield problem is real.

If we are going to fight Saudi Arabia, we are better off if we have withdrawn the potential human shields first.

BTW, we do not yet know how things will go in Saudi Arabia. The House of Saud still has a chance to come to its senses. But funding terrorism has to stop, or it will mean war.

[aruanan]

Saudi Arabia's rulers are poised to throw US strategy in the Middle East into disarray by asking Washington to pull its forces out of the kingdom because they have become a "political liability".

Okay, tiny little Saudi royal family who'll never be able to defend your asses. We'll get out. We'll let you get run over and your entire "monarchy" destroyed and then come back to pick up the pieces. Maybe some of you who make it out alive can actually learn how to work to make money instead of just pumping it out of the ground.

[weikel]

The House of Saud will not come to it senses as long as Abdullah( and the rest of his fanatical clique which now has the upper hand in the Saud family intrigue) is alive. Prince Sultan has to launch a coup( preferably proceeded by the nearly vegetable king Fahd firing Abdullah) which will kill Abdullah and all his political allies including most of the religious police and clerical establishment. Other than that I see no chance for the House of Saud to reform.

[aruanan]

And where will we get all of the H2 for our fuel cell cars???

Not from oil.

[Doc On The Bay]

IMHO, the "Saudi People" should understand--FAST--that Mecca & Medina exist, "minute-to-minute," under CONSTANT threat of Nuclear Destruction by a VERY PISSED-OFF AMERICA!!

They (the SAUDI population) need to understand that "The WEST" has tolerated their "comic Book" "government" because we have invested Billions of dollars in developing their natural resources. We DO NOT want to waste resources on a "MidEast War!"

Since 90+% of the effort & expertise invested in their UNEARNED WEALTH came from the "Infidel West," "The West" is unwilling to allow Saudi Demagogues "Control" of "resources" the Saudi's COULD NOT USE without "Western Technical Aid!"

In SHORT, Deny us access & use of Natural Resources WE DEVELOPED (& by which Development, MADE YOU WEALTHY), & we TAKE those "resources," & ELIMINATE the "Sources" of your "Make-Believe Authority!!"

RIGHT NOW, FEW of us "Infidels" would mourn the loss of MECCA or MEDINA!

"Dear SAUDI Brethren," the "West" is ENRAGED & UNFORGIVING; "ISLAM" looks VERY "Culpable!" You are in NO position to "Challenge" us!

Your BEST chance of survival is TOTAL COOPERATION!

Otherwise, you will soon be a sad footnote in the History Texts.

The "Jihad" has failed miserably, & the RAGE of "The West" is WAY BEYOND rational negotiation!

ISLAM will be CENTURIES recovering from the humiliation of this phoney "Jihad!"

Doc

[boycott]

I say we leave and let it be known that we won't protect their coward thug a$$es under any conditions.

[YaYa123]

Unnamed sources were quoted saying this in an article in today's Washington Post. The White House, Colin Powell, and Tommy Franks all denied it during the day. I haven't heard of a Saudi representative denying it.

Maybe this is an inevitability somewhere down the road, who knows. If so, we sure need to kiss up to our Turkish friends.

Tommy Franks said today Jordan has sent a full fledged hospital to Afghanistan, so their friendship will continue to be important.

I hope this "rumor" isn't true, but it sounds semi legit, doesn't it?

[EternalHope]

The House of Saud will not come to it senses as long as Abdullah( and the rest of his fanatical clique which now has the upper hand in the Saud family intrigue) is alive.

Sadly, I think you are right (but I still have hope...).

The fact is that the entire House of Saud could be overthrown, including Abdullah and the princelings siding with him. If that happens, he is just as dead as the rest of the sorry lot.

Likewise, I doubt that Sadman Insane would leave Abdullah in power if he took over when we left.

Siding with us is the House of Saud's best (only?) hope. If Abdullah has at least a room temperature IQ, he may figure this out.